The Ethernet cables, Switches and Network related sound thread. Share your listening experience only.
Jan 30, 2020 at 2:26 PM Post #46 of 2,130
Next you'll be telling us jitter doesn't exist because your telegraph operator can hear dots/dashes adequately.

I am very much enjoying your (il)logical contortions, but perhaps you could just go and listen to some cables. Then, when you hear a difference, try to hypothesise why...

My 2nd SOtM switch is arriving today and I'm very much looking forward to daisy chaining the two switches. Apparently it does wonders for sound quality :D


Can you post a single measurement showing the problems you describe are actually audible? Jitter, "Network noise", RF interference? Just one?
 
Jan 30, 2020 at 2:56 PM Post #47 of 2,130
Addressing noise can indeed make an audible difference to a system but only the analogue and acoustic parts of the system, not the digital (again, unless it's so great it overwhelms the error correction)! Does having "golden ears" mean hearing a difference when there isn't one?

G
In my listening experience there is a thin line between analogue and digital. And they benefit the same when rfi/emi is adressed.

I bought an atlas mavros analogue rca cable with a grun drain wire for rfi/emi that i connected to the analogue output of my cambridge streamer and to my external Lake People HP amp. The drain wire leads to an power adapter connected to an outlet of my niagara 1000 power conditioner with ground noise disipation system. I could litterly here less noise and much approved sound. The same kind of improvements i heard with my digital hugo2 dac/amp direct driving my HD800S that is connected to the same streamers spdif output. Rfi/Emi masks details that otherwise is there.

So the grun drain wires steers away the rfi/emi from the circuits of the streamer leeding it to my niagara 1000 grounded outlet instead.

Here is how it connects.
https://www.atlascables.com/featured-grun.html
 
Jan 30, 2020 at 3:01 PM Post #48 of 2,130
In my listening experience there is a thin line between analogue and digital. And they benefit the same when rfi/emi is adressed.

I bought an atlas mavros analogue rca cable with a grun drain wire for rfi/emi that i connected to the analogue output of my cambridge streamer and to my external Lake People HP amp. The drain wire leads to an power adapter connected to an outlet of my niagara 1000 power conditioner with ground noise disipation system. I could litterly here less noise and much approved sound. The same kind of improvements i heard with my digital hugo2 dac/amp direct driving my HD800S that is connected to the same streamers spdif output. Rfi/Emi masks details that otherwise is there.

So the grun drain wires steers away the rfi/emi from the circuits of the streamer leeding it to my niagara 1000 grounded outlet instead.

Here is how it connects.
https://www.atlascables.com/featured-grun.html


I'd be more interested if the link supporting the claim wasn't to a vendor selling a "solution". Particularly a vendor who presents no actual evidence of their product's performance.
 
Jan 30, 2020 at 3:02 PM Post #49 of 2,130
This dude tried some different switches and said fiber optical etherenet cables dont pick up rfi/emi.
 
Jan 30, 2020 at 3:07 PM Post #50 of 2,130
Somewhere in here Garth Powell power product designer of audioquest get the question if nosie can wander from ethernet cable to system he says yes.
 
Jan 30, 2020 at 4:02 PM Post #52 of 2,130
Oh boy.. the biters at it again. Washing away the tasty stuff by forcing their sour science sauce down throats. Death by strangulation of yet another thread around the corner, I tell ya!
Doesn't this ancient incredibly boring ''I practice questioning every man's unique experience every day because math and physics is my life'' have its own isolated playground in Sound Science?

Don't spread all over the Matrix and let a man play his game, you extreme bunch of wimps nerds :smile:
 
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Jan 30, 2020 at 4:02 PM Post #53 of 2,130
invent a problem to sell a solution... i also tried a fancy usb cable for fun and it did also zero difference...
 
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Jan 31, 2020 at 7:04 AM Post #54 of 2,130
Somewhere in here Garth Powell power product designer of audioquest get the question if nosie can wander from ethernet cable to system he says yes.

And there we have a typical/classic example of what plagues the audiophile world, the inability to separate marketing from actual fact! Admittedly it's often quite difficult to do this, because as with this typical example, the marketing often contains a great deal of actual, correct facts. Overall though, it's utter BS because either: A. A few key facts are omitted (that invalidate the actual facts), B. A few key "facts" are simply made-up nonsense that contradict the actual facts, C. "Can"/"Could" are used in direct contradiction to "Does", or commonly D. All of the above!

However, despite all these (and other) bog standard marketing tricks, just the application of a bit of critical thinking and common sense is often all that's needed. For example, in this podcast (and earlier in this thread) it was mentioned that (paraphrasing): At school we're taught it's just zeros and ones and "we have to do more homework than that". Think about that for a second ... Do you really think that the members of the international standards/protocols organisations, the engineers who implement ethernet technology and those who actually invented it are ALL school children? You think those of us who use ethernet as professionals creating commercial music/sound content are all school children? You think none of us have ever done any "homework"? And, what reliable evidence (eg. NOT marketing) do you have that what is taught in schools about digital data is fundamentally wrong to start with? Where's the critical thinking or even simple common sense here?

Oh boy.. the biters at it again. Washing away the tasty stuff by forcing their sour science sauce down throats. Death by strangulation of yet another thread around the corner, I tell ya!
Doesn't this ancient incredibly boring ''I practice questioning every man's unique experience every day because math and physics is my life'' have its own isolated playground in Sound Science?

Don't spread all over the Matrix and let a man play his game, you extreme bunch of wimps nerds :smile:

Or, to reword accurately (the other way around):

Oh boy... the duped are at it again. Washing away the proven science/demonstrated facts by forcing their sour snake oil down throats. Death by strangulation of yet another thread around the corner, I tell ya!
Doesn't this ancient incredibly boring "I believe snake oil and my biased perception over ALL the science, facts and even common sense, regardless of how well proven and demonstrated, because being a gullible, misinformed audiophile is my life" have it's own playground throughout head-fi except Sound Science?

Don't spread all over the matrix and let a man state the actual facts, you extreme bunch of ignorant, gullible fools audiophiles :smile:

G
 
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Jan 31, 2020 at 7:17 AM Post #55 of 2,130
FB902F6E-B32F-4218-8A4C-7B05B62966FE.jpeg
It’s just money folks, looks great
 
Jan 31, 2020 at 8:20 AM Post #56 of 2,130
And just pour little petrol, i've just ordered one of these to try on the end my over priced network cable... what can i say i just love the taste of Kool-aid too much :)

Screenshot 2020-01-31 at 13.18.08.png
 
Jan 31, 2020 at 5:58 PM Post #57 of 2,130
And just pour little petrol, i've just ordered one of these to try on the end my over priced network cable... what can i say i just love the taste of Kool-aid too much :)

Please report back in your findings. Im interested in buying the baaske mi 1005 one day.
 
Feb 1, 2020 at 3:01 AM Post #58 of 2,130
And just pour little petrol, i've just ordered one of these to try on the end my over priced network cable... what can i say i just love the taste of Kool-aid too much

Why would that "just pour little petrol"? If you buy over-priced cable (or little gadgets to attach to your over-priced cable) because you like the look of them and/or because you "just love the taste of Kool-Aid", fine, why would I or anyone else object or have any problem with that? It's only if you start asserting that it results in an audible improvement that we're going to object because there are only two possible explanations: Either you have a seriously faulty piece of equipment in your system (in which case, replacing that bit of equipment for few bucks is the rational solution) or, there is no "audible improvement" only your personal perception of an improvement (IE. Effectively a delusion).

Please report back in your findings.

It's pretty certain that's not going to happen! You might get "back" some impressions (of personal perception) but despite how relatively easy it is to objectively measure all differences, you almost certainly will not get "back" any actual "findings".

G
 
Feb 3, 2020 at 6:57 PM Post #59 of 2,130
Trust your ear guys. I would think the hearing is better then any messurment tools to spot differences in sound and the most sensetive.

@gregorio seems to rely on old data facts when new things the last decades have been discovered in audio and hearing i think audio is more complex then it seems. And everything in audio and hearing isent probebly understood fully yet either. Power products making a diffrence wasent accepted until very late in my understanding and ethernet cables,switches and related stuff making a difference is least accepted yet it seems.

And @gregorio seem to have an black and white/zero or one view. Just because audio journalists might make money of an article doesent mean its not true that the product in article peform that way its described. I think journalists can be passionate and honest in what they do and still make a buck. Also you have to decide for yourself if you think a certain reviewer seem honest. Audio bacon guy that i linked in previous post seems very honest to me by reading many of his reviews and i like his aproach to hifi and very detailed descriptions and Darko isent all that bad. I think they would have zero credebility in the end if they lied to much and would been exposed as freuds. Claiming ethernet cables make a difference 5 years ago is rather bold and sticking their necks out more, reason they do it is i think because they heard the difference and want to spread the word more then making money of it i think. Or maybe they do what they love and at the same time make some money?

This is what atlas said when i emailed them why ethernet cables can make a difference. More details here

"The definition of an analogue signal is a signal that is time continuous

The definition of a digital signal is a signal that is time discrete

Both signals have time as the common element, the formula for frequency = 1/time

therefore the fundamental design principles for analogue and digital cable

design remain the same;



Conductor quality

Dielectric efficiency

Plug quality

Screening performance

Manufacturing process



Digital audio performance is directly related to the ease by which data recovery is achieved, the lower the “work done” by the receiver circuitry the greater the potential fidelity improvement . The wider the bandwidth of the cable the easier the data can be extracted and the lower the work-done! This is in turn creates an environment that has the capacity to deliver High fidelity music replay."


Believe it or not its up to you or better yet hear it or not. Also i hear the improvements everytime when listening with this new supra cat8 cable the sound is drencht with this new sound.
 
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Feb 3, 2020 at 7:04 PM Post #60 of 2,130

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