The diary entries of a little girl nearing 30!
Mar 30, 2012 at 1:22 PM Post #4,126 of 15,119
@ MuppetFace,
 
I was just about to post a photo of MDR-F1s. You beat me by 45 min :p   I actually just bought a set of used F1s for their comfort / ventilation features.
 
The MDR-MA900s look like an improved version of F1s. They have 70 mm drivers (yet weight only 200 grams) ! Similar impedance to F1s and also have the same "impedance compensator/resistor network" and "acoustic bass lens". MA900s will probably deliver more bass / impact than F1s due to more closeness and bigger driver. I really want to know how MA900s sound and feel (comfort wise) in reality.
 
F1s would probably be more comfortable. However, if you buy NOS F1s from Japan through eBay, they cost the same as MA900s (@ $300 USD).
 
Edit: Sorry I really want to put F1 and MA900 side by side, I agree that MA900s do not look so handsome:
 

 
Mar 30, 2012 at 1:28 PM Post #4,127 of 15,119
@ Ouspensky,
 
I suggest that you open a new thread. I would follow you there and support you. Since you are the first one to disclose those to Headfi, you should have the honor to do that. I would gladly do that, if you and MuppetFace refuse to.
 
Quote:
hey everybody...I don't feel comfortable starting a new thread so I thought I would mention this here: I see Sony has various new headphones one their site including a new open air design called MDR-MA900 that looks interesting....any thoughts?
 
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666438593
 
 
http://www.jr.com/sony/pe/SON_MDRMA900/



 
 
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 2:34 PM Post #4,128 of 15,119
Quote:
Dear Diary / Please Let Me Rant Here Because I Have Nowhere Else
I got into college today. I was ecstatic and so ridiculously happy. I still AM ecstatic!
However my parents are disappointed in me. I did not get into Ivy Leagues or anything with "prestige" that they consider good.
They are both foreign parents and they think the college I got into is a bad school.
I know it isn't but they are giving me **** for it and now I don't know what to do. I am so happy yet my parents are telling me that I am dumb and that I should take a gap year and reapply next year.
I really just wish that they would smile and give me a hug like normal parents would, not to mention on the day I got accepted to a college that I was really hoping to get into. Instead all they can focus on is the rejections. It is the worst feeling ever when your parents come home on the big day and ask you where you got in, and when you say where they frown and ask "is that it?"
I really am glad that I at least have some friends who support me. And I support them too.
I hate this family. But I love them. Do you see where the root of my problem lies?
Yeah. They've calmed down a bit about it. But my mom is still a bit snarky. "If you'd gotten one more A you would have gotten in" sorta stuff. It's more annoying that upsetting at this point.
Thanks. I'll take all your advice to heart. I am half Asian and yes it's quite interesting dealing with the Asian parents. It's such a strange dynamic, my mother wants me to be happy and therefore wants me to be successful but when I am not up to her standards she makes me unhappier than I even need to be. I guess she just doesn't realize it. And trust me, I'll be getting sunlight! Will do.
USC Trojan 2016

 
First off, congratulations. People say this all the time, but college really is the time to grow, and perhaps the most opportune time to truly realize your full potential. USC is as high quality a school as any other school, provided that you make the most of it. In other words, what I'm saying is, people can go to an Ivy and absolutely waste their time, learn nothing, and come out not having reaped the benefits of an Ivy League education, while other people can go to a community college, do amazing, learn tons of material, and really blossom into their own.
 
I can understand your sentiments, as I have Asian parents as well. I believe the most important thing to remember is that all they want is for you to be as successful as you can possibly be. They may not always take on the most encouraging tone, but they will always mean well, no matter what. You might've heard of the controversial book by Amy Chua, Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. It details exactly what an 'Asian mom' is thinking when she says or does certain things that may seem emotionally manipulative, or even downright cruel, to her daughters (who are also mixed-race). I encourage you to read it, listen to its audiobook, or at least read some of the Op-Ed articles that Amy Chua wrote in the wake of the controversy of that book.
 
As for my own college experience, I went to one of the most demanding, difficult, emotionally-draining and intense schools in the world (actually not far from USC, just up the road in Pasadena), and I came out a better person with the understanding and the know-how to tackle any problem regardless of difficulty, head-on. At the same time, when I look back, I feel I could've taken even better advantage of the resources I had at my disposal while I was there. What I'm saying is, college will open you to a world of opportunities and expose you to extremely dynamic individuals in an immersive environment. See it as a constant opportunity for learning, and keep moving forward. It will help you immensely in finding a path in which you will be extremely passionate about. Once you find that, you will naturally become successful and live a fulfilling life --- that is always what your parents will want for you.
 

Quote:
the cable lost its plastic covering so i cant use it and I lost the warranty.......
 
wait do they still sell the RE ZERO? has anyone heard of the RE0? the GR07 looks like the GR04 my friend has and i thought it was a little uncomfy but i can deal with it :p if it is on sale

 
Ah --- recable, perhaps? or a reshell...
tongue_smile.gif
(Playing devil's advocate
evil_smiley.gif
)
 
Quote:
In Asia you have to obey parents. There is a very strict hierarchy and much less individualism than in the western countries. In Asia if you fail then reputation of the whole family may suffer.


Er, I'd say this is a sweeping generalization that is a bit too extreme a statement. While it has its roots in certain truths, it's fallacious and too short-sight a way to look at family dynamics in Asia in this light.
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 3:59 PM Post #4,129 of 15,119
Quote:
Dear Diary / Please Let Me Rant Here Because I Have Nowhere Else
I got into college today. I was ecstatic and so ridiculously happy. I still AM ecstatic!
However my parents are disappointed in me. I did not get into Ivy Leagues or anything with "prestige" that they consider good.
They are both foreign parents and they think the college I got into is a bad school.
I know it isn't but they are giving me **** for it and now I don't know what to do. I am so happy yet my parents are telling me that I am dumb and that I should take a gap year and reapply next year.
I really just wish that they would smile and give me a hug like normal parents would, not to mention on the day I got accepted to a college that I was really hoping to get into. Instead all they can focus on is the rejections. It is the worst feeling ever when your parents come home on the big day and ask you where you got in, and when you say where they frown and ask "is that it?"
I really am glad that I at least have some friends who support me. And I support them too.
I hate this family. But I love them. Do you see where the root of my problem lies?


Congratulations.  I hope it works out well for you.  A college's ranking isn't too terribly important.  America's educational system is so messed up the a bachelor's degree is basically just a fancy high school diploma.  Unless you have a specific career plan it's more important that you just get one rather than worry about what it's in or how well the school is regarded.
 
Also, if you even think you're having any issues with depression take advantage of the student health plan and just see a psychiatrist as a precaution.  Many colleges but plenty of money into their mental health clinics just to avoid parents suing over their kids committing suicide.  I'm not saying that your going to do that or anything but just explaining why I think you'll be able to see if you need any kind of help and get whatever help you might need.
 
I had a similar experience that turned out rather poorly and I don't want to see anyone repeat it if I can help it.  I was accepted into the electrical engineering program at UIUC which was ranked #3 in the country at the time.  I had some issues, didn't get help fast enough, got booted out of the EE program, and am still trying to get my life on track.
 
As for your parents, this may end up sounding a little harsh but I don't mean it that way.  It more about understanding where they're coming from.  Pretty much all parents suck at raising their kids.  It's not because they're mean or stupid, it's just because raising kids is really, really hard to do.  There are plenty of places to get bad advice and few to good advice.  They are probably trying their best to help you but they're just not working from the best information.
 
Quote:
On that front, a few days ago I emailed Woo about the output impedance for my WA6, expecting it to be rather high and thus negatively affecting my UERM performance, and I'm still waiting for a reply...


I'm not up for the calculations right now but it looks pretty high to me.  You can figure it out yourself from the power numbers here if you're interested.  Look up the formulas for how the poer is divied between the amplifier's impedance and the load (i.e. the headphones) impedance.
 
Quote:
This is what I mean though. This is an important specification, how could it have been printed wrong in the first place? Normally I would give them the benefit of the doubt, but there is a particular history here.
 
I'm a little hesitant to talk more about this though.


I remain skeptical as well...
 
Quote:
Maybe I've just been blind to it, but output impedance seemingly has come out of nowhere to be this very important spec. I'd never heard it mentioned until this last year and I've been around HF for almost 10 years now.


Even two years ago when I joined no one seemed to care about any specifications at all.  I knew about most of this stuff but I just kind of assumed that it wasn't an issue because no one talked about it because it was taken care of in solid state designs like after the damping factor craze with power amps went away.  Later I found out just how messy and unstandardized this whole market is.
 
Quote:
I know that it seems like output impedance has been a bit of a buzzword spec at the moment, and I was a little worried at first. There is enough measurable data and information on the internet though, and from Stereophile no less, that makes the point that output impedance is a rather important figure that affects performance. 
 
I don't think it has been a problem for headphones with their relatively high impedances (far higher than the 4/6/8 ohm impedances of speakers) until now, when there are a number of headphones on the market with impedances low enough that interaction with the amplifier's impedance is an issue.
 
I'm not saying that it is the be all and end all spec, and I would think things like THD, slew rate, etc etc are equally important. But this seems like an important question when discussing portable devices and desktop amplifiers that might be seeing some low impedance loads.


Besides just being new to many people its probably more of a buzzword because its easier to understand, easier to hear, and is more variable among different products.  With real music nobody is going to tell the difference between .01% and .005% THD and at the low voltages that headphones use its dead easy for the cheapest design to have plenty of slew rate.
 
Output impedance is also more easily captured in one number.  Assuming that an amp has enough distortion to actually be audible you really need a graph to show the harmonic composition of the distortion to have any clue what it will actually sound like.  Something like .01% is so low that pretty much no matter where the distortion is you won't be able to hear it.  OTOH a tube amp which is working hard could easily end up with 3% and not even sound that bad while any normal solid state design with 3% THD would almost certainly sound horrendous due to the different harmonic content.
 
Quote:
There's probably nothing wrong with the Classic if you're using an amp. Portable amps shouldn't care about the output impedance of what's upstream.
 
Output impedance was a major obsession in the 1960s, only in the context of an amplifier's damping factor, the ratio between the input impedance of the speaker and output impedance of the amp. By the 70s it was rare to see damping factor touted on spec sheets, since it was relatively easy for amplifier makers to produce solid state amps with near-zero output impedance and DF figures in the tens of thousands.
 
Remember that 2 ohm loads in the speaker world are rare, but by no means bizarre, and 6 ohms is common. A high damping factor is arguably even more critical for speaker amps and harder to achieve, yet it's ceased to be a meaningful figure.

 
This is why I don't really marvel at low-Z headphone amps, where 32 ohm is considered a nominal load. I am mostly curious why there are so few of them.


If I got an iDevice it would be a Classic and I'd use an amp as a buffer to lower the output impedance.  IMO all DAPs on the market have a fatal flaw so you have to pick your poison.  Output impedance can at least be fixed with an external device but a lot of other issues aren't so easy.
 
I think there are a few reasons why output impedance varies so much on headphone amps.  One is that most head amps are op amp based op amps don't actually drive low impedance loads all that well.  Extra impedance is often added to keep them stable or well behaved into lower impedance headphones.  Power transistors and chip amps used for speaker amps don't really have those issues but aren't well suited for head amps, especially portable ones.  That leaves a gap in the middle with only a few op amps like the 4556 in the O2 and think like the TI and National buffer chips which work well for headphones without sucking down tons of power or taking up lots of space.
 
The second is that different output impedances will make things sound different and lots of people will equate different with better.
 
Quote:
Specification measurement standardization would be nice, but I'm in the camp that suspects that although we can measure many things that we know affect audio quality, we do not yet necessarily know how everything is relevant to audio fidelity, and how to gauge it all meaningfully. The following quote comes to mind: "If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad; if it measures bad and sounds good, you have measured the wrong thing."


I'd say that either way you measured the wrong thing.  Psychoacoustics is really what determines whether something sound good or not.
 
Quote:
The MDR-MA900s look like an improved version of F1s. They have 70 mm drivers! Similar impedance to F1s and also have that "acoustic bass lens". MA900s should deliver more bass / impact than F1s due to less ventilation/openness and bigger driver. I really want to know how MA900s sound and feel (comfort wise) in reality.


With 70mm drivers I wonder how or if they handles cone break up.  Sennheiser tried the best they could to deal with the issue in a large full range driver and ended up having to punch a hole in the middle and make a "ring radiator" to get the results they wanted.
 
On something like the XB1000 where nobody was going to care about the treble anyway it probably wasn't much of an issue to use such a big driver but if this really is following in the footsteps of the F1 and going for sound stage they do have to care about it.
 
My guess is that they just decided to forget about the bass and limit excursion to keep the treble nice and clean...
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 3:59 PM Post #4,130 of 15,119
I don't feel special at all for mentioning them first
tongue.gif
. If someone else wants to open a thread about the many new models from Sony, that is fine by me. I usually preffer to read threads than open new ones.
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 4:30 PM Post #4,131 of 15,119
Thanks for your post maverick. I'll have to try to calculate the wa6 impedance when I get to a real computer, not my phone.
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 4:48 PM Post #4,132 of 15,119
I do not know how Sony handle treble with big drivers in MDR-MA900s. How do AKG K1000s work with treble in terms of driver design?
 
I think openness of headphone cups will hurt bass to some degree. I do not know of any truly open headphones that provide good bass, see for examples, AKG K1000s, Sennheiser HD800s, Sony MDR-F1s, SA5000s, all of which are a little lean at bass region.
 
F1s have 50 mm drivers and those "acoustic bass lens", which do not seem to help much with bass. If F1s can produce bass well without "acoustic bass lens", Sony would not bother to keep those extra structures. MA900s also have those "acoustic bass lens", does that mean that they need help in bass? I don't know.......
 
I guess it is difficult to have great sound stage, ventilation and bass all in one headphone.
 
Quote:
With 70mm drivers I wonder how or if they handles cone break up.  Sennheiser tried the best they could to deal with the issue in a large full range driver and ended up having to punch a hole in the middle and make a "ring radiator" to get the results they wanted.
 
On something like the XB1000 where nobody was going to care about the treble anyway it probably wasn't much of an issue to use such a big driver but if this really is following in the footsteps of the F1 and going for sound stage they do have to care about it.
 
My guess is that they just decided to forget about the bass and limit excursion to keep the treble nice and clean...

 
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 5:01 PM Post #4,133 of 15,119
Quote:
I do not know how Sony handle treble with big drivers in MDR-MA900s. How do AKG K1000s work with treble in terms of driver design?
 
I think openness of headphone cups will hurt bass to some degree. I do not know of any truly open headphones that provide good bass, see for examples, AKG K1000s, Sennheiser HD800s, Sony MDR-F1s, SA5000s, all of which are a little lean at bass region.
 
F1s have 50 mm drivers and those "acoustic bass lens", which do not seem to help much with bass. If F1s can produce bass well without "acoustic bass lens", Sony would not bother to keep those extra structures. MA900s also have those "acoustic bass lens", does that mean that they need help in bass? I don't know.......
 
I guess it is difficult to have great sound stage, ventilation and bass all in one headphone.

 
IIRC the K1000's drivers aren't even that big.  They're just mounted in a mesh/cage sort of thing.
 
Also, I think they need that bass lens just to get them to level of "bass light".  Without it they probably don't have any bass at all.
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 5:13 PM Post #4,134 of 15,119
Leckerton finally got the UHA-4 in stock. I got myself the stock configuration and grabbed a Fiio LOD from another site. Time to go visit HomeDepot and The Source and see if I can find some 3M dual lock for cheap. Finally got myself a decent mobile amp that I can use as a laptop sound card. I'm so pumped.

 
Mar 30, 2012 at 7:08 PM Post #4,136 of 15,119


Quote:

 
 
I'm... not sure how I feel about these. On the one hand, I kind of like the retro-Walkman look. On the other hand they look kind of awful. Wonder how they'll sound?


The major Issue I have with the design, especially compared to the F1, is that the headband is too thin in comparison to the cups. It looks ill proportioned, as if you overfed a pair of AT ONTOS (which are nicely prportioned.)
 
 
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 8:50 PM Post #4,140 of 15,119
Quote:
The major Issue I have with the design, especially compared to the F1, is that the headband is too thin in comparison to the cups. It looks ill proportioned, as if you overfed a pair of AT ONTOS (which are nicely prportioned.)


My first thought as well. The headband is too thick to look stylish, too thin to look sturdy or well-built.
 

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