[tomscy2000]

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I consider that a myth. None of the closed IEMs I've ever heard had actually large soundstage, including the customs. Granted, the UERM have pinpoint accurate positioning, but all of it within the typical limited soundstage of closed phones. They're great for chamber music, but in my opinion unable to portray the spaciousness of a concert hall convincingly. IE8, EX1000, FI-BA-SS are some examples for fairly adequate presentation with large scale orchestra and it's no coincidence that all of them are vented/open.

I generally agree with you on most things, but Muppet and I have in our hands (well, ears) the RedGiant A03, which is a technically closed design (well, it sort of cheats by venting into a large, closed outer shell) but to my ears it has a larger soundstage than even the IE8/80... then again, though, it's main drawback is poor front-back positioning (it has an extremely shallow soundstage).

 

[Maxvla]

As I said in the HD700 thread my experience is opposite. Soundstage is always percieved, regardless if it is from a closed environment or vented. I think people who don't experience large soundstages with IEMs can't get past the mental block of them being sealed and believe they can't sound large and thus make themselves hear it.

 

[MuppetFace]

Yeah, the A03 is ridiculous. HUGE presentation but lacking a sense of depth kind of like a big IMAX screen.

 

[tomscy2000]

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As I said in the HD700 thread my experience is opposite. Soundstage is always percieved, regardless if it is from a closed environment or vented. I think people who don't experience large soundstages with IEMs can't get past the mental block of them being sealed and believe they can't sound large and thus make themselves hear it.

At least for me, as long as the soundstage feels realistic (separation is realistic in proportion with each other) I'm perfectly happy with IEMs. I don't have a problem with them sounding 'in the head'. They simply render soundstage differently from full-sized, open-style headphones. I actually really like the way customs render a sense of space.
 
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Yeah, the A03 is ridiculous. HUGE presentation but lacking a sense of depth kind of like a big IMAX screen.

Yup! You've hit it dead center! I wrote in my review that it has a very 'vertically planar' soundstage... I think your description is much more easy to understand. Blast my impractical, scientist tendencies! Reading too many academic papers has tainted my writing skills...

 

 

[a_recording]

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<3

Oh, you like the National? :3 I really like their stuff and especially their track for Portal 2.
 

 

[a_recording]

I'm trying to logon to the Apple store in Australia to see if the Fidelio L1 arrived here yet and I'm starting to think that the store must be down because obviously everyone else is trying to find out about the L1 also HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM *nods nods*

 

[ardgedee]

 
Quote:

None of the closed IEMs I've ever heard had actually large soundstage, including the customs. Granted, the UERM have pinpoint accurate positioning, but all of it within the typical limited soundstage of closed phones. They're great for chamber music, but in my opinion unable to portray the spaciousness of a concert hall convincingly. IE8, EX1000, FI-BA-SS are some examples for fairly adequate presentation with large scale orchestra and it's no coincidence that all of them are vented/open.

 
Quote:

As I said in the HD700 thread my experience is opposite. Soundstage is always percieved, regardless if it is from a closed environment or vented. I think people who don't experience large soundstages with IEMs can't get past the mental block of them being sealed and believe they can't sound large and thus make themselves hear it.

Quote:

I generally agree with you on most things, but Muppet and I have in our hands (well, ears) the RedGiant A03, which is a technically closed design (well, it sort of cheats by venting into a large, closed outer shell) but to my ears it has a larger soundstage than even the IE8/80... then again, though, it's main drawback is poor front-back positioning (it has an extremely shallow soundstage).

For my part, soundstage has always been problematic on headphones, particularly IEMs; a flat soundstage sounds like it's going through my head, and with few exceptions, the deeper the soundstage, the more likely it is to sound like it is behind my head. I am mostly not fond of binaural recordings for this reason. (This is part of why I valued the HD800: Its soundstage was in front of me).
 
IEMs, good and bad alike, have never really managed to get out of my head, soundstage-wise. (I'm going to qualify that by saying I've never auditioned any top-tier IEMs, but Many lower-midgrade headphones can manage some space beyond my ears even if they don't have any other advantages.
 
I've seen the term "headstage" used in lieu of "soundstage" when referring to auditory space on headphones, and I think it's apt. I also suspect perception of headstage is far more dependent on each individual's ears and ear shapes than perception of speaker soundstage is. (I have no research to back up that suspicion.)

 

[Magik32]

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For now its online only.

 
Ah, bummer.
 
 
 
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I'm trying to logon to the Apple store in Australia to see if the Fidelio L1 arrived here yet and I'm starting to think that the store must be down because obviously everyone else is trying to find out about the L1 also HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM *nods nods*

 
I'm trying to take a look at the Apple site, but can't get on either.  Guess I'll try in a couple hours.
 

 
 

 

[mutabor]

Quote:

I'm trying to logon to the Apple store in Australia to see if the Fidelio L1 arrived here yet and I'm starting to think that the store must be down because obviously everyone else is trying to find out about the L1 also HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM *nods nods*

Or it's because a presentation of "resolutionary" iPad 3 ( 2048x1536 display) has just finished a while ago.
 

 

[james444]

Quote:

I generally agree with you on most things, but Muppet and I have in our hands (well, ears) the RedGiant A03, which is a technically closed design (well, it sort of cheats by venting into a large, closed outer shell) but to my ears it has a larger soundstage than even the IE8/80... then again, though, it's main drawback is poor front-back positioning (it has an extremely shallow soundstage).

These won't be for me then. I love a spacious presentation, but would take a smaller stage with realistic proportions over the one you describe.
 
Quote:

I think people who don't experience large soundstages with IEMs can't get past the mental block of them being sealed and believe they can't sound large and thus make themselves hear it.

 
And I think auto-suggestion may be a great way to overcome that mental block.

 

[tomscy2000]

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These won't be for me then. I love a spacious presentation, but would take a smaller stage with realistic proportions over the one you describe.

Well, you never know. While the A03 are definitely flawed, they're extremely enjoyable to listen to. Though, it is like watching a large 2D movie over watching a 3D movie. They're definitely worth a listen, if not a buy (well, you won't be able to buy them anyways, unless you live in either Korea, Taiwan, or Canada, for the time being). I think they're absolutely unique in the realm of in-ears. I'll most likely be organizing a listening tour once I've finished writing up my review.

 

[james444]

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Well, you never know. While the A03 are definitely flawed, they're extremely enjoyable to listen to. Though, it is like watching a large 2D movie over watching a 3D movie. They're definitely worth a listen, if not a buy (well, you won't be able to buy them anyways, unless you live in either Korea, Taiwan, or Canada, for the time being). I think they're absolutely unique in the realm of in-ears. I'll most likely be organizing a listening tour once I've finished writing up my review.

Alright, never say never. Though I'm already having minor gripes about the EX600's presentation, which is extremely wide but too shallow in comparison. Don't know whether I could stand an even more extreme disproportion.

 

[Maxvla]

 

And I think auto-suggestion may be a great way to overcome that mental block.

Hm?

 

[music_4321]

.
 

 

[zzffnn]

@ tomscy2000 or MuppetFace,
 
So Comparing VSonic GR07 vs. RedGiant A03, which one has more realistic soundstage and better overall sound? How about wearing comfort?  Thanks.