The David & Goliath Battle: DT531 v CD3000 comparison

[pbirkett]

I have now seen a few questions on the forum, and one specific request from Zoide to ask about a comparison of the DT531 and CD3000. The DT531 is a headphone which offers some of the qualities of the CD3000 for a much lower price and in a much more forgiving fashion and as such is a headphone (along with the DT440 too, perhaps) that should be given a careful audition by those who want a lively sound for less money.

So on with the David and Goliath battle....

Appearance:-
The Sony's come a large grey box, and when you take them out their appearance is one of quality, large grey cups, self adjusting headband, cloth covered cable. The Beyer's are noticably smaller (but still not small), has a double headband and nice velvet pads. The cable is very thin and the headphone looks quite cheap, but is actually pretty rugged.

Comfort:-
The Sony's are very comfortable. Their self adjusting headband helps distribute the not unsubstantial weight of these cans. The pads are a pleather type material, but are much softer than you get from some pleather pads (like the AKG's) and thus more comfortable than those. Clamping force is virtually nil. The Beyers are also extremely comfortable, their headband design again helps eliminate weight, but in this case the headphones are much lighter than the Sony's. The pads are very soft velvet like material. The clamping force is slightly greater than the Sony's, but still not annoying. The Beyers are if anything, slightly more comfortable to me due to being lighter.

Sound:-
The Sony's are, as you know very bright and up front sounding headphones, they also have quite slamming bass, but the bass is not as prominent as the treble, which can make them sound lean at times. The mids are slightly recessed. The highs despite being bright are smooth and realistic. With the best quality recordings / sources, they have an excellent sound, with a realistic, vast, concert hall like soundstage. They sound very dynamic. However, with less than perfect recordings, they start to get undone pretty quickly. Because these are so revealing / sensitive, you will hear all graininess, brightness, thinness, muffledness or any artifacts in a truly amplified fashion. This can lead to the music becoming very hard to listen to, because you get faults being force fed straight into the brain.

On the other hand the Beyers have a slightly softer sound than the Sony's. Tonally they are actually quite similar, but the Beyers are a bit warmer sounding - the highs are not as dominant, and the bass is a bit more dominant. The bass is tight and punchy. They do the realism thing well, but not quite as well as the Sony's on the best recordings, but its pretty close. Soundstage is not as vast as the Sony's, but its almost on par with the likes of the DT880 and HD650. I'd almost describe it as a Sennheiser crossed with a CD3000, but yet they could never be accused of being dull or veiled. One thing worth to mention is thats its a very forgiving phone, and undemanding, and will play very nice music without having the best hardware and software. The overall sound is one that is lively, but also sweet and easy on the ears, and they get the musical message across first and worry about other things later. I'd say detail levels were up there with the higher cans too.

A few points worth mentioning about the Sony's IMO, is the fact they have a couple of very noticable faults to my ears. Firstly, being a closed phone, they do have a slight "boxy" colouration of the midrange, which the Beyers do not have at all. Maybe the woody's will help here? (again, more expense). Its not as bad as the majority of closed phones, but its still there, and to my ears can affect the vocals in songs - I slightly prefer the Beyers for vocals. Secondly, I found that the Sony's bass was slightly bloomy in quality and had a little overhang. Its there in the Beyer's too, but again a bit less so. Third the CD3000's cable is microphonic. It didnt bother me, but it does some people. Again, this could involve more expense for the Sonys.

Overall, the cans you pick will be dictated by personal preference, musical tastes and budget. If you know that most of your recordings are good, and like a very upfront sound, and have substantial funds to possibly pour into making them sound good, the Sony's are perhaps the better choice. However, if you dont quite like the very upfront and / or unforgiving nature of the Sony's, and also dislike the hardness of the sound, listen mainly to what I'd describe as more popular biased music and want an easier time for the wallet I'd go for the Beyers, but dont make the mistake of thinking the Beyers dont do well on good recordings as well, because they most certainly do.

Comparing my two rigs, CD3000 + Perreaux (costing me around $850 in total) and the DT531 + Rega (costing me just over $300 in total), I'd have to concede that the DT531 based rig in this case, does a better job in almost every respect - which is proof at how unfussy and undemanding the DT531 is, and how critical it is to get good synergy to get the CD3000 singing. This is not a criticism of the Sony's, but more of a warning that they require money and dedication to get the best from them. I dont have that kind of money, or dedication, so the DT531's are much better for me overall. I also find that in the majority of cases, the DT531 is less "hifi orientated" than the CD3000 and thus if you value groove and the musical message more than the audiophile aspects, then you may well prefer the DT531. Thats not to say the CD3000 cannot groove, but in comparison to the DT531, it does not groove as well, IMHO.

 

[dj_mocok]

20 bucks from me on david (DT531)

by the way, DT531 IS the David right ?

(after reading this... phew... how glad i am, deciding on A900 instead of CD3000 last time... )

 

[Wmcmanus]

Nice review, and a good example of how spending more does not necessarily mean getting more for your ears, musical tastes, sonic preferences, etc (as my signature describes in more detail). It will be interesting to hear what Sov has to say about this!!!

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus Nice review, and a good example of how spending more does not necessarily mean getting more for your ears, musical tastes, sonic preferences, etc (as my signature describes in more detail). It will be interesting to hear what Sov has to say about this!!!

I had tried two beyers the DT770 and the DT990, and did not like them, that DT531 must be different, if it sounds different I can't say anything as I have not heard it nor any similar.......it is perfectly OK with me, but as you asked for my opinion, here I go:

Every person has a different taste, and different music preferences, and different ears, that concludes that what is right for one person, maybe is not for others, even the education, musical preference, ethnic origin, etc....have an impact on the way we listen the music, and the way we prefer the music to be played. And there is nothing wrong in any case, just that this makes us different and unique (and I'm not saying who is right or wrong, just that we hear different obviously) this is a fact, that has being proved here time after time.....
A better system "usually" do the job better, that a more humble one, wise selected, of course, as the synergy is very important also, but if you prefer the humble, bravo!!! you have saved a ton of money yourself.....a better system will let you hear all the problems upstreams, and will not mask the sound or defects, this could be a good or a bad thing, depending on the material you are hearing...

One thing you will have very clear, the fact that I respect him very much, my hats off, and you want to know why? Just because he was honest with himself, and he is being honest with us.
AFAIK others would be ashamed of exposed those "unusual ideas", just for the fear of being call names, for the snobophobiles......and would try to defend and justify their investments, at any cost, even lying to themselves and to us, sometimes under the effect of the placebo, and sometimes trying to look smarter in front of others eyes, and at the end they are not happy with their rigs. At least he is happy with his...

BTW I'm still looking for my nirvana, but in my case I have the limitation of my wallet...and I do not feel the headphones is the limitation, as I have other limitations, I know I need a better source, and I'm trying to get the sound I want out of my PPA amp, etc...but in some way I'm happy with mine also, there are some better, of course, but my wallet can't get them....

He is entitled to his personal taste and to his opinion, as anybody else, and FYI, I was never against who had tried the CD3000 and do not like them, and try it in different setups etc...and at the end find that the CD3000 is not for them, as any other headphones, it is not the God's gift to mankind.....but if you want to talk of it, please try it first, and try it in good setups and for some time, we have enough "5 minutes audition in a meeting" comments here already....

 

[3lusiv3]

Since the DT 531 is no longer available, what other headphones would treat the music in the same way and not make you listen critically, but just enjoy the music. The DT 440 comes to mind, but what others would fit the description?

 

[iGig]

I love reading DT531 threads, they go like this:
"The DT531 is better than x, y AND z... it's more comfortable and less expensive... but you can't get them...

 

[pbirkett]

Glad you guys like my little review. Hopefully it goes some way to answering almost any query about the two headphones. I still do have a lot of time for the CD3000, and if things had been different (if I had a fatter wallet) then I might have dedicated my cause to building a whole system around it, but for me the DT531 offers a cheaper way to get a sound that is pretty close in absolute quality, and it is more forgiving (the importance of this cannot be underestimated in my case - around 50+ % of my music is MP3 format).

Oh, and FYI Sov, the DT531 is completely different in sound to the DT770 / 990, and I much prefer it.

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iGig I love reading DT531 threads, they go like this: "The DT531 is better than x, y AND z... it's more comfortable and less expensive... but you can't get them...

Lol, I'm right there with you. All the DT531 love that has recently shown up out of the blue is driving me away from the headphone forum. I would look into the DT440 but it has that same miserable headband that ultrasone uses (very fragile). I asked Meier Audio if they could find me one but they said Beyer sourced the last available DT531 in Germany for them a while ago and its already been sold. ::sigh::

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

I will post a follow-up to this review in a week or two when my DT531's arrive, we'll see how the DT531 can stack up to the woodies with higher-end associated gear and my soncially demanding diet of metal and classical. If PBirkett's edition was David v Goliath then mine shall be David v. Hercules, or something like that

 

[Zoide]

Paul, thanks a lot for the great review!

Like Sovkiller said, it's awesome to see someone who is so honest. It's very interesting to see someone who actually downgraded and feels better about it, and who *having owned both options* had no trouble with believing and saying that the cheaper one is better for his taste/uses.

On the other hand, like iGig said, it's terrible to read about how good and cheap (at least relatively) the DT531's are but not be able to get them!

And it's definitely affecting my decision process for getting the CD3Ks!

But then again, while sometimes I believe in the whole "ignorance is bliss" thing, I think that learning as much as possible and making the most educated decisions possible is also great.

 

[purk]

pbirkett,

Thanks for an honest review. Everyone is entitle to their opinion. Will you get rid of your CD3K?

BTW, check Hi-Fi Choice review of DT-531.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Sov, I was just kidding when I said that it will be interesting to see what you have to say about the review. This has become sort of the standard head-fi reply whenever anyone has does a mixed review involving the CD3000's. I do agree with you that it is refreshing to see such an honest review.

I've always enjoyed the CD3000's myself and find that they can sound very good with many different sytems (amps, sources, interconnects). Mine now have now been woodied by Larry and I like them even more because the soundstage has opened up further, and they now have an even more aggressive attack, more extended bass, etc.

 

[Snufkin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purk pbirkett, BTW, check Hi-Fi Choice review of DT-531.

That review pops up just about every time someone mentions the DT531. IMHO it's possibly the least accurate review I've ever read to the point where it's as if they're reviewing a different product altogether or they have some kind of grudge against the headphone. There's opinions, and then there's deaf people reviewing audio products.


Couple of points (and I'll get the controversial one out of the way) - it's interesting to note some people promoting their favourite products so strongly constantly as be-all and end-all best of everything all round greatest champion headphones of the world that are suitable for anyone, anywhere, anytime for any music from any equipment, yet when someone else says they don't particularly like that product it's emphasised that everyone is entitled to their opinion and different people have different tastes /ears etc. What I fail to understand (and here's where the kid in me speaks out) is that if one headphone is really so good, howcome everyone doesn't like it?

I get really frustrated seeing such a narrow range of headphones recommended sometimes because it perpetuates and people just end up recommending the same models over and over because that's what most people have, not because they're the most suitable.

Second point - I just checked the DT440 headband and unfortunately because they've gone for a single-sided design it means swapping the DT440 headband for the DTX31 headband wouldn't be a simple switch

I'd recommend emailing Beyer and telling them how much you love their products but hate hea headbands on the DT440/DT660/DT860 models

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snufkin Couple of points (and I'll get the controversial one out of the way) - it's interesting to note some people promoting their favourite products so strongly constantly as be-all and end-all best of everything all round greatest champion headphones of the world that are suitable for anyone, anywhere, anytime for any music from any equipment, yet when someone else says they don't particularly like that product it's emphasised that everyone is entitled to their opinion and different people have different tastes /ears etc. What I fail to understand (and here's where the kid in me speaks out) is that if one headphone is really so good, howcome everyone doesn't like it? I get really frustrated seeing such a narrow range of headphones recommended sometimes because it perpetuates and people just end up recommending the same models over and over because that's what most people have, not because they're the most suitable.

Well in fact the CD3K is not a universal headphone at all, as you are trying to point out (and nobody says that neither) in fact it is a very controversial headphone, and very hard to match properly, and as any other headphone in the world, many members do not like it, but it is in fact a more universally accepted (more than the 531 at least) and considered for the majority as a better sounding product, and it is also considered that sounds good with almost every genre of music for the ones who like it....(but I'm excluded from an official opinion as I have not heard the DT531, to compare both, OK?)

Another two points:

First the 531 has never being considered at the same level of the others recommended (as flagship of their respective brands) why? I don't know, but this is the truth, DT880 should be more appropriate, as an example of higher end product of the Beyers, at least that is what the Beyer lovers say.....

Second consider also that the 531 is an out of production headphone, and is not easy to get, same case of the HP-1, it is very uncommon that people recommend a product that there is no way of getting it in the market, even if it is good.....but this is true also that many people consider no other options than a few Senns, a few Beyers, a couple of Sonys, and a few Grados, the Etys, Shure, some ATs, some canalphones, and even some Ultrasone.....that's about 15 to 20 models, and do you still want more recos??? IMO that is enough for any to begin with....too many IMHO....

 

[Snufkin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller Well in fact the CD3K is not a universal headphone at all, as you are trying to point out (and nobody says that neither) in fact it is a very controversial headphone, and very hard to match properly, and as any other headphone in the world, many members do not like it, but it is in fact a more universally accepted (more than the 531 at least) and considered for the majority as a better sounding product, and it is also considered that sounds good with almost every genre of music for the ones who like it....(but I'm excluded from an official opinion as I have not heard the DT531, to compare both, OK?)

Don't take my comments the wrong way, it was a general observation even if it did come across as if I were pointing the finger specifically, it was more of a general wave of the hand though

I think one of the reasons the CD3K is "more universally accepted" is because it's (and no offense intended here) been shoved down peoples throats so much; so many, many more people have experience with it as opposed to (and not limited to) the DT531. However, your view that the CD3k may be considered "better" by a larger range of people doesn't hold much weight when the reality is there aren't a hell of a lot of people that have heard the DT531 (compared to the number that have heard the cd3k) and even less that have heard both.
There's also often the illusion that a "technically" superior headphone is more enjoyable, which is one of the points being made in this thread in the first place and a point that I strongly believe in myself having passed over many, many "technically" better headphones for models that I enjoy listening to.


Quote:

Another two points: First the 531 has never being considered at the same level of the others recommended (as flagship of their respective brands) why? I don't know, but this is the truth, DT880 should be more appropriate, as an example of higher end product of the Beyers, at least that is what the Beyer lovers say.....

For some reason the term "Beyer lovers" there seems like a veiled insult there, as if it's a dirty word/term

Again, here you encourage the notion that "higher end" products are always going to make people happier. As much as I love the DT880, I still prefer the DT531. I prefer the DT531 (and the DT440) to the Sennheiser HD650, opinions, tastes and views. Product heirarchy, "flagship" status and cost be damned, I know what I like the sound of

Quote:

Second consider also that the 531 is an out of production headphone, and is not easy to get, same case of the HP-1, it is very uncommon that people recommend a product that there is no way of getting it in the market, even if it is good.....

Isn't the CD3k out of production?

This board isn't always about telling people which headphones they should buy, or asking people which headphones you should buy. It's about sharing your experiences, thoughts and observations on headphones. Why not tell people about a headphone that's no longer available? I'm sure there are people who are interested, especially if you happen to find it more enjoyable to listen to than a current top of the range model!


Quote:

but this is true also that many people consider no other options than a few Senns, a few Beyers, a couple of Sonys, and a few Grados, the Etys, Shure, some ATs, some canalphones, and even some Ultrasone.....that's about 15 to 20 models, and do you still want more recos??? IMO that is enough for any to begin with....too many IMHO....

The more choice the better IMO, I love listening to different headphones, sure I have my favourites but I also recognise that not only are some of my favourites shared by other people, but some of the headphones I really dislike are other people's favourites.

I'm not here to tell everyone I think they should buy the DT531 (aside from the obvious availability reasons) I'm simply here to reinforce pbirkett's observations that "technically better" or "more expensive" or "higher end" doesn't always mean "gonna make you bust out the air guitar and jump on the table".