THE COMPOSER OPEN BACK FLAGSHIP by AUSTRIAN AUDIO

[chesebert]

'Better' is debatable. It's better in certain areas, worse in others. Also, Susvara measures just fine and is generally well-regarded.




Edit: here's Crin's data as well if you prefer unsmoothed (we both do 1/12th now but my data for this is older I believe).




Edit 2: And here is the composer also on GRAS



Note the targets are different in the bass - we really do need to get a new Susvara in to measure and post with our new methodology. But the idea that "you can't trust this guy because he rates the susvara highly"... it's a particularly silly argument. So, by all means if you want to take shots - I am far from infallible, and I'm sure I've had some bad takes in the past. But you can do better than that.

In terms of mid liquidity, timbre and naturalness, are you getting similar performance between 800S and Composer?

Also, how does Composer compare with Utopia (any version)? Nomax suggested that Composer is a better version of Utopia.

 

[Nomax]

In terms of mid liquidity, timbre and naturalness, are you getting similar performance between 800S and Composer?

Also, how does Composer compare with Utopia (any version)? Nomax suggested that Composer is a better version of Utopia.

Of course, because the composer moves far more air mass as the frenchman OG

Try these track then you know what i mean



NOMAX

PS.The HD800 can't really be described as truly dynamic for today's times

 

[Resolve]

But if I read amirms measurements about the Susvara ( https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hifiman-susvara-headphone-review.50705/ )

Yes I was wondering if this would come up. I've summed up the issues with this reviewer's methodology here, and these are just some of the reasons most measurement folks tend to ignore him as well. But for those who aren't aware, you typically see the conflation of perceptually relevant information like frequency response and distortion with totally irrelevant results. For example, measuring at 114dB and saying "look at the distortion!" when it suits the narrative, or focusing on 'messy' GD to indicate resonances without showing excess GD, which is what will actually tell you if the headphone is minimum phase, or making regular 'errors' in alignment that makes the product look worse/better, and simply laziness when it comes to placement/positioning.

So no, I don't take the data or judgments from that site at face value, nor would it be prudent to do so.

With regards to price: That's up to the person IMO. Like price is never a sufficient condition for good performance in headphones, but you do have to also consider the competition.

This question is exactly what I expexted after Revolves comment!

Regarding this question, here's how I'd describe it. The Composer is better extended in the bass than the HD 800 S, but the HD 800 S doesn't have as strong of a dip around 2khz - it's more gradual, and the treble is a bit more refined. The 6khz issue is less noticeable to me on the Composer, but still may be an issue for some, but the upper treble is less good.

In terms of mid liquidity, timbre and naturalness, are you getting similar performance between 800S and Composer?

Also, how does Composer compare with Utopia (any version)? Nomax suggested that Composer is a better version of Utopia.

I'm not sure about 'liquidity', but if you mean general balance for the mids, I'd give the edge to the HD 800 S, since the ear gain distance is a bit strong on the Composer (although that will depend on the individual and their HRTF).

And no I wouldn't put the Composer in the same tier as the Utopia. It's more spacious than the Utopia, but not nearly as engaging to me.

 

[chesebert]

Of course, because the composer moves far more air mass as the frenchman

Try these track then you know what i mean



NOMAX

Do you get paid to stay up past midnight to reply to forum posts? I would ask for a raise or higher profit sharing from AA

 

[Nomax]

Do you get paid to stay up past midnight to reply to forum posts? I would ask for a raise or higher profit sharing from AA

I would have to demand this from other manufacturers as well

NOMAX

PS.Just like for the upcoming.......

 

[Trinkle]

Upcoming .... lol from whom ?

 

[Nomax]

Upcoming .... lol from whom ?

That doesn't matter....
(not yet)

NOMAX

PS.Good night and have fun with the model of your choice
lol

 

[RobertSM]

Yes I was wondering if this would come up. I've summed up the issues with this reviewer's methodology here, and these are just some of the reasons most measurement folks tend to ignore him as well. But for those who aren't aware, you typically see the conflation of perceptually relevant information like frequency response and distortion with totally irrelevant results. For example, measuring at 114dB and saying "look at the distortion!" when it suits the narrative, or focusing on 'messy' GD to indicate resonances without showing excess GD, which is what will actually tell you if the headphone is minimum phase, or making regular 'errors' in alignment that makes the product look worse/better, and simply laziness when it comes to placement/positioning.

So no, I don't take the data or judgments from that site at face value, nor would it be prudent to do so.

With regards to price: That's up to the person IMO. Like price is never a sufficient condition for good performance in headphones, but you do have to also consider the competition.



Regarding this question, here's how I'd describe it. The Composer is better extended in the bass than the HD 800 S, but the HD 800 S doesn't have as strong of a dip around 2khz - it's more gradual, and the treble is a bit more refined. The 6khz issue is less noticeable to me on the Composer, but still may be an issue for some, but the upper treble is less good.



I'm not sure about 'liquidity', but if you mean general balance for the mids, I'd give the edge to the HD 800 S, since the ear gain distance is a bit strong on the Composer (although that will depend on the individual and their HRTF).

And no I wouldn't put the Composer in the same tier as the Utopia. It's more spacious than the Utopia, but not nearly as engaging to me.

It's not just him(ASR). The whole idea that because one owns a measurement rig and thus is considered a reviewer is absolutely mad. Complete affectation.

 

[Resolve]

It's not just him(ASR). The whole idea that because one owns a measurement rig and thus is considered a reviewer is absolutely mad. Complete affectation.

Ehhh I think the bigger issue is how it's used.

 

[Tano]

Liquidity . Be sure you don't get any fluids into your ear canal or you could get otitis...

 

[yukihasi]

And no I wouldn't put the Composer in the same tier as the Utopia. It's more spacious than the Utopia, but not nearly as engaging to me.

Thanks for motivating me digging out my old Utopia (OG).

The Composer is definitely more spacious than the Utopia I agree.
But I think engaging is a very subjective word, and hard to justify putting them in different tiers.

To me due to the aforementioned spaciousness, the imaging of Composer is bigger and thinner, while Utopia is smaller and thicker. As a result, I think the Composer brings out more nuances (low volume details) in the vocals and instruments while the Utopia has a denser presentation and better body.

When the soundstage is smaller, sometimes Utopia gives the impression that your are hearing more details, but after some serious back and force AB, I found the detail amount to be on par with Composer, just that the confined soundstage of Utopia made the music sound "busier" like you can hear more stuff going on. While on the other hand, you can hear the placement/separation of instruments better on the Composer again because the wider soundstage.

I would say at least on my system, they are the same tier. Not sure about Utopia 2022 since I've never used them.

 

[Resolve]

But I think engaging is a very subjective word, and hard to justify putting them in different tiers.

100%. And this is really just how I hear it. IMO Soundstage & spaciousness = composer, for punch and detail = Utopia.

 

[jamesjames]

Yes I was wondering if this would come up. I've summed up the issues with this reviewer's methodology here, and these are just some of the reasons most measurement folks tend to ignore him as well. But for those who aren't aware, you typically see the conflation of perceptually relevant information like frequency response and distortion with totally irrelevant results. For example, measuring at 114dB and saying "look at the distortion!" when it suits the narrative, or focusing on 'messy' GD to indicate resonances without showing excess GD, which is what will actually tell you if the headphone is minimum phase, or making regular 'errors' in alignment that makes the product look worse/better, and simply laziness when it comes to placement/positioning.

So no, I don't take the data or judgments from that site at face value, nor would it be prudent to do so.

With regards to price: That's up to the person IMO. Like price is never a sufficient condition for good performance in headphones, but you do have to also consider the competition.



Regarding this question, here's how I'd describe it. The Composer is better extended in the bass than the HD 800 S, but the HD 800 S doesn't have as strong of a dip around 2khz - it's more gradual, and the treble is a bit more refined. The 6khz issue is less noticeable to me on the Composer, but still may be an issue for some, but the upper treble is less good.



I'm not sure about 'liquidity', but if you mean general balance for the mids, I'd give the edge to the HD 800 S, since the ear gain distance is a bit strong on the Composer (although that will depend on the individual and their HRTF).

And no I wouldn't put the Composer in the same tier as the Utopia. It's more spacious than the Utopia, but not nearly as engaging to me.

Many thanks for the review and additional comments. It's refreshing to have thoughtful, moderate comments rather than insistent assertions - or a breathless dash to a conclusion about which component is 'best'. It's also nice to see distinctions being consistently drawn between descriptions of performance and preference - both of which are legitimate of course - and helpful when teased out as in your review.

 

[S Crowther]

Up until Resolve's review all we've seen on this headphone is 124 pages of non-stop Zeo's style shilling from people who clearly have incredible bias towards the company and this product. So yeah the review is the most accurate impression that I've seen so far from a third party with no skin in the game.

Well, I have both the Sennheiser HD800S and the Composer. I do not use EQ and know nothing of graphs. I think the Composer lacks the depth of stage provided by the Sennheisers but on the other hand the width sounds more natural on the Composer.
I think the Composer sounds like a development of the K812 which I used to have and liked.
Playing out of my desktop amp I have no doubt I prefer the Composer to the Sennheisers . It just sounds in a different class.
I know what you hear depends on the synergy of the whole chain: synergy is everything in hifi. Different setup, different result. I can imagine that played on a Chord setup or maybe Lina for example the Composer could sound thin and over bright. My stack is Denafrips which is usually described as warm and slightly soft as the amp is Class A unity gain and the DAC is R2R.

 

[chesebert]

Thanks for motivating me digging out my old Utopia (OG).

The Composer is definitely more spacious than the Utopia I agree.
But I think engaging is a very subjective word, and hard to justify putting them in different tiers.

To me due to the aforementioned spaciousness, the imaging of Composer is bigger and thinner, while Utopia is smaller and thicker. As a result, I think the Composer brings out more nuances (low volume details) in the vocals and instruments while the Utopia has a denser presentation and better body.

When the soundstage is smaller, sometimes Utopia gives the impression that your are hearing more details, but after some serious back and force AB, I found the detail amount to be on par with Composer, just that the confined soundstage of Utopia made the music sound "busier" like you can hear more stuff going on. While on the other hand, you can hear the placement/separation of instruments better on the Composer again because the wider soundstage.

I would say at least on my system, they are the same tier. Not sure about Utopia 2022 since I've never used them.

Composer has a larger soundstage than 800S? Because I am flipping back and forth between 800S and Utopia OG and soundstage is about the same as 800S widthwise and deeper than 800S. I don't understand why people say Utopia has small soundstage. I will wait for Axpona to judge for myself.