[KaiFi]

I think the problem I have heard with dca noires is that they are very boring. I do want to try them sometime though. I am happy the focals provide amazing isolation, thats what I was always after. I also love how the radiance looks. Im happy overall. I will keep an eye out for the new zmf prototype. Maybe those end up good. If they can shake up the market with a verite “lite” they did good. If Hifiman finds a formula for creating a closed back thats as good as their openbacks with the pricing they have, these companies will be in a very tough spot.

I agree with all of that. I would love a lighter-weight, more affordable ZMF and a Hifiman closed-back that actually isolates and isn't just a slightly muffled open-back.

Having tried the Noire, I can't recommend them for anything other than comfort. The sound was overly bright and lacking in dynamics to me. Very dull and disappointing. That seems to be the DCA "house sound", so if you don't like the Noire, you're not going to like any of them.

 

[Mhog55]

I just bought the Radiance new for $590 from a authorized dealer. I aimed for the verite or lcd-xc but the price was too good to pass up. Also I got the he1000 stealths recently and am beyond impressed with them so I dont think I need another higher end headphone.

That's quite the deal

 

[JackLeville]

I think the problem I have heard with dca noires is that they are very boring.

I second that. Sound reproduction is very well done, but they lack dimension in their soundstage, and you get just the sound, not the emotion.

 

[dweet]

I think the problem I have heard with dca noires is that they are very boring. I do want to try them sometime though. I am happy the focals provide amazing isolation, thats what I was always after. I also love how the radiance looks. Im happy overall. I will keep an eye out for the new zmf prototype. Maybe those end up good. If they can shake up the market with a verite “lite” they did good. If Hifiman finds a formula for creating a closed back thats as good as their openbacks with the pricing they have, these companies will be in a very tough spot.

Don't listen to others, try them yourself They are more balanced than Focals, for sure.

 

[Spyronight]

Don't listen to others, try them yourself They are more balanced than Focals, for sure.

I will when I get the chance. I already enjoyed the focal clears og alot. I know the Radiance is different (how different, I dont know) but hopefully I can sell the radiances if all dosent go to plan

 

[shampoosuicide]

For posterity:

	DCA Aeon 2 Noire	Denon D9200	Sony MDR-Z1R	Focal Stellia
Comfort	Phenomenal comfort	Decent	Excellent comfort	So-so comfort
Isolation	Very good isolation	Decent isolation	Good isolation	Excellent isolation
Durability	Good build quality	Very good build quality	Excellent build quality	Superb build quality
Drivability	Requires an amp	Easy to drive	Easy to drive	Easy to drive
Pros	Mellifluous tone. Excellent transient response. Highly resolving—in fact the most resolving of the lot. Excellent clarity, detail retrieval, and transparency. Tuning filters make these versatile.	Full-bodied, warm, moderate V-shape. Excellent bass definition, extension, control, and impact. Vibrant, fun, punchy.	Grand soundstage and bass, for stage and bassheads. Theatrical, cinematic presentation. Palatable, consumer tuning. Warm, full-bodied, lush, smooth.	Rich, organic, dynamic. Excellent tonality.
Cons	Average soundstage. Somewhat lean and bright, and tad lacking in body and weight and macro-dynamics and slam, depending on filters.	Intimate soundstage. Below average separation for the price tag.	Treble is a tad recessed. Bass lacks some definition and texture. Somewhat slow transient response.	Very closed-in sounding. Lacking in air and upper-treble presence. Detail retrieval, clarity, and transparency are below average for the price. Weak transparency and separation.

Apple Lossless on Mac > Burson Playmate 2 [ V6 Vivid ] [ Super Charger 5A ] > Aeon 2 Noire / D9200 / MDR-Z1R / Stellia


Tonality — Stellia > Aeon 2 Noire > D9200 > MDR-Z1R

Soundstage — MDR-Z1R > Stellia > Aeon 2 Noire > D9200

Imaging — MDR-Z1R > Aeon 2 Noire > Stellia > D9200

Separation — Aeon 2 Noire > MDR-Z1R > Stellia > D9200

Transparency — Aeon 2 Noire > D9200 > Stellia > MDR-Z1R

Clarity — Aeon 2 Noire > Stellia > D9200 > MDR-Z1R

Detail retrieval — Aeon 2 Noire > Stellia > D9200 > MDR-Z1R

Bass quality — MDR-Z1R >/= D9200 > Stellia > Aeon 2 Noire

Bass quantity — MDR-Z1R > Stellia > D9200 > Aeon 2 Noire

Mid quality — Stellia > D9200 > Aeon 2 Noire > MDR-Z1R

Mid quantity — Stellia > D9200 > Aeon 2 Noire > MDR-Z1R

Treble quality — Aeon 2 Noire > D9200 > Stellia > MDR-Z1R

Treble quantity — Aeon 2 Noire > D9200 > MDR-Z1R > Stellia

Speed and transient response — Aeon 2 Noire > D9200 > Stellia > MDR-Z1R

Dynamism — Stellia > D9200 > MDR-Z1R > Aeon 2 Noire

Timbre — Stellia > D9200 > Aeon 2 Noire > MDR-Z1R

 

[yrstruly]

For posterity:

	DCA Aeon 2 Noire	Denon D9200	Sony MDR-Z1R	Focal Stellia
Comfort	Phenomenal comfort	Decent	Excellent comfort	So-so comfort
Isolation	Excellent isolation	Decent isolation	Good isolation	Very good isolation
Durability	Excellent build quality	Good	Excellent build quality	Superb build quality
Drivability	Requires an amp	Easy to drive	Easy to drive	Easy to drive
Pros	Mellifluous tone. Excellent transient response. Highly resolving—in fact the most resolving of the lot. Excellent clarity, detail retrieval, and transparency. Tuning filters make these versatile.	Moderate V-shape. Depending on fit and clamp, mids can be lean and dry or warm and full-bodied. Very nice treble sparkle. Vibrant, fun, punchy.	Grand soundstage and bass, for stage and bassheads. Theatrical, cinematic presentation. Palatable, consumer tuning. Warm, full-bodied, lush, smooth.	Rich, organic, dynamic. Excellent tonality.
Cons	Average soundstage. Lean and bright; lacking in body and weight. Lacking in macro-dynamics and slam.	Intimate soundstage. Below average separation for the price tag. Bass is less defined and textured than I expected for a Foster variant	Treble is a tad recessed. Bass lacks some definition and texture. Somewhat slow transient response.	Very closed-in sounding. Lacking in air and upper-treble presence. Detail retrieval, clarity, and transparency are below average for the price. Weak transparency and separation.

Chain -- Apple Lossless on Mac > Burson Playmate 2 [ V6 Vivid ] [ Super Charger 5A ] > Aeon 2 Noire / D9200 / MDR-Z1R / Stellia


Tonality — Stellia > MDR-Z1R > D9200 > Aeon 2 Noire

Soundstage — MDR-Z1R > Stellia > Aeon 2 Noire > D9200

Imaging — MDR-Z1R > Aeon 2 Noire > Stellia > D9200

Separation — Aeon 2 Noire > MDR-Z1R > Stellia >/= D9200

Transparency — Aeon 2 Noire > D9200 > MDR-Z1R > Stellia

Clarity — Aeon 2 Noire > D9200 > MDR-Z1R > Stellia

Detail retrieval — Aeon 2 Noire > MDR-Z1R > D9200 > Stellia

Bass quality — Aeon 2 Noire > MDR-Z1R > Stellia > D9200

Bass quantity — MDR-Z1R > Stellia > D9200 > Aeon 2 Noire

Mid quality — Stellia > MDR-Z1R > D9200 > Aeon 2 Noire

Mid quantity — Stellia > MDR-Z1R > D9200 > Aeon 2 Noire

Treble quality — Aeon 2 Noire > D9200 > MDR-Z1R > Stellia

Treble quantity — Aeon 2 Noire > D9200 > MDR-Z1R > Stellia

Speed and transient response — Aeon 2 Noire > D9200 > Stellia > MDR-Z1R

Dynamism — Stellia > MDR-Z1R > D9200.> Aeon 2 Noire

Timbre — Stellia > MDR-Z1R > D9200 > Aeon 2 Noire

Great post - nice one!

Interesting that you perceive the Stellia are comparatively less detailed but with best timbre - feel like some others might have the opposite experience there but hey we all hear differently.

So your fav overall would be the Noire?

 

[KaiFi]

Definitely want to try the Sony some day. Based on that review, the Sony sounds like the best of the four (for my personal tastes).

 

[SolarCetacean]

That was a very thorough comparison! I own the Noire (technically the 2 Closed, but I use the perforated pads) and have heard the Stellia several times. I agree with most of the comparisons between those two, like the Stellia's excellent dynamics and the Noire's spectacular detail resolution (IMO its resolution rivals even open-backs that are several times its price). The only place I might disagree with the ranking is in bass quality; I find that the relatively compressed dynamics of the Noire also affects the timbre of bass transients and can cause some bass notes to sound "rubbery", like hitting something with a soft rubber mallet vs a metal hammer.

I'm looking forward to trying out the MDR-Z1R, though unfortunately demo opportunities are rare in the US as many audio stores don't carry it. I have a modded Z7M2 in my collection and it's my current favorite closed-back, so I'm hoping the Z1R will be an upgrade over it. The lack of dynamics on the Noire sort of exacerbates all of its issues, making the midrange shoutier and more forward, the treble harsher, and the bass softer and more rubbery, so sadly, it's a headphone that I like less and less the more I listen to it. I've found that soundstage is very important for me in closed-backs, because closed-backs are disadvantaged in the sense of "openness" that open-backs can have, thus soundstage is needed to compensate for that lack of openness.

 

[shampoosuicide]

Great post - nice one!

Interesting that you perceive the Stellia are comparatively less detailed but with best timbre - feel like some others might have the opposite experience there but hey we all hear differently.

So your fav overall would be the Noire?

Thank you kindly!

I was sadly underwhelmed by the Stellia. The tonality and timbre are indeed fantastic. But I expected much more in terms of detail retrieval, and even setting detail retrieval aside, I found its separation, surface clarity, and transparency to be weak.

Stock, my favourite is indeed the Noire. But I also enjoy the MDR-Z1R equally, if not more. They are two very different headphones, with almost opposite / complementary tunings.

 

[shampoosuicide]

That was a very thorough comparison! I own the Noire (technically the 2 Closed, but I use the perforated pads) and have heard the Stellia several times. I agree with most of the comparisons between those two, like the Stellia's excellent dynamics and the Noire's spectacular detail resolution (IMO its resolution rivals even open-backs that are several times its price). The only place I might disagree with the ranking is in bass quality; I find that the relatively compressed dynamics of the Noire also affects the timbre of bass transients and can cause some bass notes to sound "rubbery", like hitting something with a soft rubber mallet vs a metal hammer.

I'm looking forward to trying out the MDR-Z1R, though unfortunately demo opportunities are rare in the US as many audio stores don't carry it. I have a modded Z7M2 in my collection and it's my current favorite closed-back, so I'm hoping the Z1R will be an upgrade over it. The lack of dynamics on the Noire sort of exacerbates all of its issues, making the midrange shoutier and more forward, the treble harsher, and the bass softer and more rubbery, so sadly, it's a headphone that I like less and less the more I listen to it. I've found that soundstage is very important for me in closed-backs, because closed-backs are disadvantaged in the sense of "openness" that open-backs can have, thus soundstage is needed to compensate for that lack of openness.

You make some excellent points, especially the bit about the quality of the Noire's bass impact. I find that it does vary based on the filters and also source. I settled on the stock white felt + black felt insert, and the bass, at least to my ears, is solid, defined, and hard-hitting, though not weighty, full-bodied, or authoritative as with the MDR-Z1R.

I also agree with the resolving capabilities of the Noire. That really took me by surprise, and indeed they do outperform more expensive open-backs I've owned.

 

[yrstruly]

Thank you kindly!

I was sadly underwhelmed by the Stellia. The tonality and timbre are indeed fantastic. But I expected much more in terms of detail retrieval, and even setting detail retrieval aside, I found its separation, surface clarity, and transparency to be weak.

Stock, my favourite is indeed the Noire. But I also enjoy the MDR-Z1R equally, if not more. They are two very different headphones, with almost opposite / complementary tunings.

Would be quite interested in your impressions on the LCD 2 Closed if you've heard. Technically (and price-wise) it's pretty much on par with the Noire but you might find the tonality a bit less troublesome.

 

[SolarCetacean]

I settled on the stock white felt + black felt insert, and the bass, at least to my ears, is solid, defined, and hard-hitting, though not weighty, full-bodied, or authoritative as with the MDR-Z1R.

I tried out the felt filter combo that you use. I agree that it improves the perceived bass and bass impact. The combination of filters did seem to slightly reduce treble clarity and also overall volume; I had to slightly turn up the volume knob after installing the filters. In fact, that might be part of why I perceive more bass - there actually is more bass as the reduction in treble reduces the perceived volume and as I increase the overall volume to compensate, I get more bass quantity. This comes from how our ear/brain weights different frequencies when determining loudness. But, having two filters reduced the room in the earcup and my ears pressed uncomfortably against the scratchy black felt. I had been using only the black foam mainly to cushion my ears against the driver grille (yeah, my ears stick out a lot) and to slightly smooth over the treble. I'm now using just the white felt filter and it seems to strike a decent middle ground: not as much loss in the treble but still a noticeable improvement to bass and still leaving room for my ears to be comfortable. The only downside is the visual contrast between the black earpads and the white felt.

In the past, I thought that EQing down the treble at certain frequencies would slightly improve the sense of bass slam (probably because the treble components of a transient aren't overpowering the low-frequency components), so the felt filters might be doing something similar. I think the Aeon has a lot of "treble slam" where the high-frequency components of a drum hit are very emphasized, so there's a lot of snap, but not a lot of physical kick or slam to the hit. The filters seem to reduce that treble slam, which allows the bass to be more easily perceived and fixes the balance of harmonics in transients. I think the bass texture is less rubbery now, and I agree that the bass is now well-defined and snappy, but it still doesn't do that physical punch sensation ("throat punch" in the same vein as "chest punch" from speakers) as well as my other headphones, including even electrostatics like the Shangri-La Jr.

This is actually by design. Dan Clark has mentioned in interviews that he designs his headphones so that they don't overshoot transients. If the signal level rises by 3 dB when a drum hits, DCA headphones will produce that 3 dB impulse, and no more. Dan says that most other headphone will overshoot that transient level, so a 3 dB transient turns into a 4 or 5 dB transient or even more. Someone on SBAF apparently measured that some Focal headphones overshoot transients by 6 dB. That overshoot is why some headphones are more dynamic and punchier than others. No overshoot = less punch. But it will give you exactly the amount of punch that is mixed into the track, so on really hard-hitting tracks the Noire can still slam hard.

I corroborated this by using dynamic EQ to expand the transients in the signal. Dynamic EQ like FabFilter Pro Q 3 will analyze the signal and apply a filter only when it detects that a transient is occurring in a given frequency band. This allows you to "overdrive" transients by basically adding overshoot. And when I do that with the Noire, I get that sense of punch and dynamics that I get on other headphones. When I use a whole lot of adjacent dynamic filters to increase dynamics across the entire frequency range, most of my issues with the Noire's sound are resolved. Bass is punchy and not soft or rubbery. Vocals aren't as shouty and have more liveliness. Treble is not as harsh, sharp, or compressed and it becomes more open and airier. But then I'm basically undoing what Dan Clark and his team worked so hard to do. And it requires a VST plugin, which then limits me to computer-based players.

Regarding sources, I agree that sources that have a punchier sound work well with the Noire. I recently bought the Ferrum Audio Erco and it's doing something in hardware that's very similar to dynamic EQ across the entire frequency range. It's a more dynamic sounding dac/amp that synergizes well with the Noire.

 

[JackLeville]

The MDR-Z1Ris almost impossible to get hold of, also in Europe. With Sony buying Audeze, chances are Sony will focus more on lower priced solutions and the MDR-Z1R will disappear.

 

[plakat]

Interesting analysis @SolarCetacean
I know that overshoot trick from a certain Bluetooth model, and it explains well the snappiness I dislike about Focal models.

If Dan tries to avoid this, he obviously has a certain sound signature in mind because without a slight overshooting the driver wo t be able to follow the rest of the curve due to the mass to accelerate. For me, it’s more of a middle ground between too laid back (the Noire gave me that feeling) and too aggressive (Utopia et al)