The Closed-Back Headphone Thread (Plus Comparisons & Reviews)

[Terriero]

@Terriero

I agree that certain products grow on you while at the same time you have a niche which you either like or hate. There is no middle ground.
For example, when I purchased my Focal Aria speakers, the seller was surprised that I did not choose the favorite : Dali Opticon.
I explained that the sound signature I am looking for is with Aria and not Opticon.
He was surprised because quite a lot of his customers dislike Focal.

Just because I chose Focal Aria it does not mean that the Opticon were not an excellent product.
I grew up surrounded by music savvy people and my father is rocking a Strat even today given he started this in the 70s. I know what I am looking for and I can appreciate various types of sound signatures. I was lucky to have an ear that can pick up sound nuances passed on to me.

Bottom line, a true music lover will acknowledge quality in products and not offer biased advice just to put dirt on the brand that does not sponsor him.
Objectivity is rare nowadays and a big number of reviews and opinions are from users who do not have the ability to distinguish a flat sound from a V shape.
It is not their fault, their ear does not allow them but because they have a forum favourite in their hands or a specific agenda they will try to convert others.

There are plenty of good headphones out there and when I purchased my 9200 I had the UTOPIA and Stelia (amongst other things) on the table as well.
I chose the one that I liked and I did not feel the Denon to be 50% in price inferior to the Focal offerings. On the contrary in certain areas it was better than the Focal which was unexpected.

Will I get a Focal headphone? Definitely but for the time being I am happy with my Denon and if someone believes the 9200 is a bad product they should try it with a solid amp, cable and good source. They should not take opinions from someone who heard from someone else that someone listened to this and it was not good.

So pretty the 9200 on that stand, although they are foreigners there

I really apreciate your comments about your HI-FI experiencies. I really liked when you posted in the 9200 thread your buying experiencies... Was the first time I saw you in the forum and you were looking for a "perfect shape" 9200 and had your issues with Thomann (normal, when you pay that ammount of money, you don't want imperfections) and finally you found one. I though that you are a perfectionist person. Also you commented about the headphones you tried at the audio shop (something that is impossible for me where I live) and your impressions. I really appreciate you shared that.

By the way, if a new guy enter in some threads (for example, the Kennerton's or the Denon's) he would think that there are a lot of people hired by Kennerton or Denon here...

 

[Malevolent]

Well, I must openly thank my fellow closed-back brethren for their sympathies to the position this year has put the waveSounds household in (and yes, I make my wife call me Mr. waveSounds).

I've been an active member of various forums since my early teenage years, and I must admit, integrating into Head-Fi was the hardest. It's widely plagued with hostility, condescending attitudes, and pompous view points. Very different to the general spirit amongst gaming oriented communities - of course you get your fair share of morons there, too, just on a lesser scale.

The participants in, and overall sentiment within, this thread are the exception to the rule. So I raise my (fifth-tieth?!...) glass of wine to the down-to-earth, non-judgemental, open-minded fellows who make this an enjoyable place to participate.

As a gesture of early festivity, here's Badger the Christmas Collie sending his greetings:

Badger appears to be judging you for your umpteenth audio purchase!

Anyway, 2020 has been a really interesting and unusual year. I've spent so much time indoors, it has forced an introvert like myself to become even more introspective; more independent from society. As my wife can't work from home, my days are usually spent alone, in the comfort of my room. After work is over, I'm afforded a wealth of time to pursue my hobbies. The COVID situation has thus exacerbated my (already high) interest in audio - my frenzied passion for closed-back headphones has shot through the roof in 2020!

Hopefully, a sense of calm and normalcy will prevail in the coming months ahead.

 

[Malevolent]

By the way, if a new guy enter in some threads (for example, the Kennerton's or the Denon's) he would think that there are a lot of people hired by Kennerton or Denon here...

Yeah, Denon appears to have a lot of fans around these parts, and for good reason, too! I'm sure you'll be joining the fan club shortly.

When will be you be getting your unit?

 

[Xero the Banana]

One of my all-time favorite headphones, the Sony MDR-Z1R, was awarded the grand rank of... "C+".

Hey, no big deal. Crin doesn't like it; but I love it. Using the same scale, the MDR-Z1R is easily an "S" in my personal list; at least, in the tonality department.

At the end of the day, how someone feels about something you like doesn't invalidate the innate qualities of said product. If an individual hates the MDR-Z1R, I'll still love it for its inherent strengths.

Don't fret over it! Enjoy your music!

I think another thing people are forgetting to mention is that at least half a headphone’s rank is based on how close the headphone is tuned to to the Harman target- a lot of the popular closed backs are admittedly v-shaped or focused towards one end of the spectrum. Comfort isn’t factored at all into the list either.

But harman tonality aside, both Denon headphones rated a B and the Beyer T1.3 rated B- for technicalities which I’d say is pretty solid.

So for the v-shaped lovers here, which is a lot, you could look at the headphones with the medium-higher rated technicalities and the lower rated headphones in terms of tonalities to find what you’d probably like .

 

[subguy812]

I think another thing people are forgetting to mention is that at least half a headphone’s rank is based on how close the headphone is tuned to to the Harman target- a lot of the popular closed backs are admittedly v-shaped or focused towards one end of the spectrum. Comfort isn’t factored at all into the list either.

But harman tonality aside, both Denon headphones rated a B and the Beyer T1.3 rated B- for technicalities which I’d say is pretty solid.

So for the v-shaped lovers here, which is a lot, you could look at the headphones with the medium-higher rated technicalities and the lower rated headphones in terms of tonalities to find what you’d probably like .

Understood... But graphs only show a piece of the story. They dont show tone, timbre, emotion etc. Graphs are fine but nothing beats your own ears

 

[plakat]

Understood... But graphs only show a piece of the story. They dont show tone, timbre, emotion etc. Graphs are fine but nothing beats your own ears

I‘d even go a step further and say that interpreting graphs without also listening doesn’t help much at all. If comparable (I.e. same measurement equipment, same target curve etc.) it might help with a very broad categorization vs other, known models.

Worst thing I‘ve ever seen was a website judging only by the numbers and graphs... dilettantism I could not even believe to ever see.
Edit: Clarification: This statement was not about Crinacle. Did not even think about that anymore,plus he doesn't do that, as anyone reading his statements knows and @Xero the Banana correctly commented below.

 

[Xero the Banana]

I‘d evenings a step further and say that interpreting graphs without also listening doesn’t help much at all. If comparable (I.e. same measurement equipment, same target curve etc.) it might help with a very broad categorization vs other, known models.

Worst thing I‘ve ever seen was a website judging only by the numbers and graphs... dilettantism I could not even believe to ever see.

I agree with this, but isn’t every headphone (and iem) on Crinacle’s list one that he has heard personally?

At the end of the day if the headphone doesn’t have a neutral tuning it probably won’t score into the A or S ranks of his list. Which isn’t a bad thing, because once you have a good idea of your personal sound preferences you can use that information to find the headphones within the list that do align with your tastes .

On a more positive note (I think), anyone considering picking up a new closed-back for Christmas or the New Years?

 

[subguy812]

I agree with this, but isn’t every headphone (and iem) on Crinacle’s list one that he has heard personally?

At the end of the day if the headphone doesn’t have a neutral tuning it probably won’t score into the A or S ranks of his list. Which isn’t a bad thing, because once you have a good idea of your personal sound preferences you can use that information to find the headphones within the list that do align with your tastes .

On a more positive note (I think), anyone considering picking up a new closed-back for Christmas or the New Years?

You say on a more positive note as if something you said was negative. Sometimes opinion's don't align, so what?

Who knows what Crinnacle has heard and for long or under what environment?

I don't really read rankings and have eliminated any type of scoring from my blog, just my preference, there is no right or wrong. Unfortunately, like sheep, many are led by rankings and even if they are happy with their gear, start to allow ranking to influence feelings, not sure why but they do.

If folks like FR graphs, Crin brings value for that, although I know absolutely nothing about equipment used or methods.

 

[plakat]

I agree with this, but isn’t every headphone (and iem) on Crinacle’s list one that he has heard personally?

Yes, he states that and reading his assessments graphs are obviously not the (sole) basis. I've added clarification to my post above, thank you for pointing out this possible misunderstanding.

Who knows what Crinnacle has heard and for long or under what environment?

I don't really read rankings and have eliminated any type of scoring from my blog, just my preference, there is no right or wrong. Unfortunately, like sheep, many are led by rankings and even if they are happy with their gear, start to allow ranking to influence feelings, not sure why but they do.

If folks like FR graphs, Crin brings value for that, although I know absolutely nothing about equipment used or methods.

I think he is rather transparent about most points (e.g. testing a model for short in a shop), but yes, I, too, would need more information about the measurements to be able to relate to them. I really miss Tylls measurements at innerfidelity for that exact reason... plus he had more then FR plotted.

But lets stop to talk about a ranking most of us seem to not agree with anyway. To me its actually more interesting to read descriptions of how a model is perceived.

Answering @Xero the Banana I think I'l put a stop to new purchases once again. Got a D9200 (which is really excellent and more than worth its money to me) and a really nice Austrian Audio Hi-X55 (which I tested after release and did not really like, ordered now anyway and realized that it simply doesn't sound good with my AK380SS...) and have a Yamaha YH-E700A on order... that should do for quite some time

 

[plakat]

Well, I must openly thank my fellow closed-back brethren for their sympathies to the position this year has put the waveSounds household in (and yes, I make my wife call me Mr. waveSounds).

I've been an active member of various forums since my early teenage years, and I must admit, integrating into Head-Fi was the hardest. It's widely plagued with hostility, condescending attitudes, and pompous view points. Very different to the general spirit amongst gaming oriented communities - of course you get your fair share of morons there, too, just on a lesser scale.

The participants in, and overall sentiment within, this thread are the exception to the rule. So I raise my (fifth-tieth?!...) glass of wine to the down-to-earth, non-judgemental, open-minded fellows who make this an enjoyable place to participate.

As a gesture of early festivity, here's Badger the Christmas Collie sending his greetings:

He does looks a bit skeptic indeed

Yes, I've had the same feeling... head-fi seemed to have got rather aggressive over the past few years, maybe with the influx of new people due to the wider spread of headphones. Up to a point I understand that, music is inherently emotional and so discussions about "how it should be" tend to get out of hand really fast. It also highlights how different our perception is and how thin the shared interpretation we're used to call reality. We're alway talking about the thing itself (Kant "das Ding an sich") yet we only have our sensory perception of waves in space-time that may have been caused by... something.

OK, deliberately calling in the philosophical cavalry Due to my skepticism against an absolute reality (and even more against our hope to have a grasp of it) I try to stay clear from those heated discussions. Very happy to have found a benevolent corner (albeit lots of positive input from -- what a coincidence -- @Malevolent ) around here where one is even free to like the Nightowl without being cut up and fed to the dogs Keep it up and here's to future positive discussions.

side note: I try to keep the used of smileys down to a minimal level (and I hate that there's no simple way to keep them as text and not have them inverted into ugly graphics), but if anything sounds offensive its most likely not intended to be and simply did not receive a marking smiley due to exceeded total smiley-count.

 

[FullBright1]

Audeze LCD-XC

No one is shooting up flairs about this one, and its been around for a while.... but, its a fine sounding gear.
The resolution, detail retrieval, soundstage, and tonal balance, make this one special.
ITs everything the Senn HD820 isn't.
Sonically : it a fine balance between medium clinical and slightly warm meets precision.
Its not the lightest, and its not the cheapest, but, it offers an Elite Audiophile experience.

 

[AudioDuck]

First reply (much less a post!) from a newbie: As someone who stepped into head-fi a couple of years ago (long-time speaker-based audiophile), lurking in this community has been a pleasure and I’ve learned a lot from many of you!

Popping in to second the prior post on the LCD-XC.

I started down the path with a Shure SRH-1540 (using with a Moon Audio Blue Dragon, it’s still my “daily driver” with an Oppo HA-2SE at my desk), later got a Burson HA-160 and a Focal Elear, and have reached (hopefully) end game status with an SPL Auditor and the LCD-XC.

The pandemic has caused me to go all closed-back (still keeping an AKG Q-701 for giggles)... and the LCD-XC, once broken in, has become a delight that gets me through the rough days. The transparency of the Auditor lets me enjoy the source, a Schiit Gungnir MB.

So I completely agree that while the XCs aren’t perfect, their detail retrieval and overall qualities have given me the enjoyment of the Elears (boosted by a Black Dragon Premium), but in peace and without disturbing others.

Now, Santa, for Christmas I want some upgrade cables for my new cans...

 

[FullBright1]

First reply (much less a post!) from a newbie: As someone who stepped into head-fi a couple of years ago (long-time speaker-based audiophile), lurking in this community has been a pleasure and I’ve learned a lot from many of you!

Popping in to second the prior post on the LCD-XC.

I started down the path with a Shure SRH-1540 (using with a Moon Audio Blue Dragon, it’s still my “daily driver” with an Oppo HA-2SE at my desk), later got a Burson HA-160 and a Focal Elear, and have reached (hopefully) end game status with an SPL Auditor and the LCD-XC.

The pandemic has caused me to go all closed-back (still keeping an AKG Q-701 for giggles)... and the LCD-XC, once broken in, has become a delight that gets me through the rough days. The transparency of the Auditor lets me enjoy the source, a Schiit Gungnir MB.

So I completely agree that while the XCs aren’t perfect, their detail retrieval and overall qualities have given me the enjoyment of the Elears (boosted by a Black Dragon Premium), but in peace and without disturbing others.

Now, Santa, for Christmas I want some upgrade cables for my new cans...

You are correct....
The LCD-XC is a good Gear.
There isn't a closed set of Headphones that sound better, just different.
Something like the OPPO-3 is a toy fidelity compared to these monsters of sound.
Out of the box they are fairly Bright-Hot, but soon enough some smoothness blooms in a bit, and while they dont mellow out, they do over time, and according to the principle of burn in, enlist a more natural tonality.
I mean face it, the Audeze sound is not related to Reference Neutral sound, so, the XC is the same, but its quite an achievement regarding the quality of resolution, the amount of detail it provides, and the ability it offers to let you see inside all the parts of the sound.
They do sound a bit like the LCD-X, but with more of everything dialed in to play.
Some headphones send you into the world of Ahhhhhhhhhh, and some headphones cause you to sit up and listen with full attention, and the XC's are those guys.

 

[ADUHF]

One of my all-time favorite headphones, the Sony MDR-Z1R, was awarded the grand rank of... "C+".

Hey, no big deal. Crin doesn't like it; but I love it. Using the same scale, the MDR-Z1R is easily an "S" in my personal list; at least, in the tonality department.

Just admirin some of the rather graceful curves on this unit compared to my poor 250-ohm DT 770.

After adjusting the treble and bass a little better, one area that I'm finding sticks out a little more on my DT-770 is the midrange at around 1 kHz. My ears seem to be particularly sensitive to any stridency or harshness in that region. That is fixable with an EQ. But I notice that the MDR-Z1R seems a little better tuned and restrained in that area, out-of-the-box as they say.

FR on the DT-770 is a bit of a mess, isn't it. Some of those weird bumps and dips in the mid-bass may be partially the result of some pad flappage though, which isn't something which necessarily needs to be corrected. The DT-770 does seem to lack some warmth though at around 200-250 Hz, and maybe also a little below it.

 

[Malevolent]

I agree with this, but isn’t every headphone (and iem) on Crinacle’s list one that he has heard personally?

At the end of the day if the headphone doesn’t have a neutral tuning it probably won’t score into the A or S ranks of his list. Which isn’t a bad thing, because once you have a good idea of your personal sound preferences you can use that information to find the headphones within the list that do align with your tastes .

On a more positive note (I think), anyone considering picking up a new closed-back for Christmas or the New Years?

Yes, if you've followed the evolution of Crinacle's twin ranking lists, you'd easily understand his tonality preferences; anything that strays away from his preferred signature(s) will, typically, be ranked lower on the aforementioned lists. In this regard, I can understand Crinacle perfectly; if I was tasked to rank a group of headphones or IEMs, any product that fits my subjective criteria will be elevated to a higher tier; those residing beyond the boundaries of my preferential targets are usually discarded, or left by the wayside.

Case-in-point, the Sennheiser HD 800 S - it's lauded for its technical supremacy, and rightfully so; it is a maestro at detail and staging. However, it's also a (very) boring headphone, and I could never enjoy any of my music on them. Thus, it'll be ranked within the lower-half of my list.

At the end of the day, we buy what we enjoy; one man's trash is another man's treasure, after all.

For Christmas, I am thinking of picking up a Beyerdynamic T5 (3rd Generation). It isn't the headphone for everyone, and it's quite a polarizing choice. However, that dark, rich sound is quite addictive. Argh!