The Closed-Back Headphone Thread (Plus Comparisons & Reviews)

[Malevolent]

Answering @Xero the Banana I think I'l put a stop to new purchases once again. Got a D9200 (which is really excellent and more than worth its money to me) and a really nice Austrian Audio Hi-X55 (which I tested after release and did not really like, ordered now anyway and realized that it simply doesn't sound good with my AK380SS...) and have a Yamaha YH-E700A on order... that should do for quite some time

Quick! Delete your Head-Fi account! Enjoy the heck out of your AH-D9200; it's truly end-game-level, IMO.

However, the horizon always beckons. Thankfully, apart from the Hifiman HE-R10 (planar), and a possible MDR-Z1R successor, nothing appears ready to challenge the status quo. Maybe it's time to relax and just enjoy my music? The obsession with gear can be a little draining at times.

 

[Malevolent]

He does looks a bit skeptic indeed

Yes, I've had the same feeling... head-fi seemed to have got rather aggressive over the past few years, maybe with the influx of new people due to the wider spread of headphones. Up to a point I understand that, music is inherently emotional and so discussions about "how it should be" tend to get out of hand really fast. It also highlights how different our perception is and how thin the shared interpretation we're used to call reality. We're alway talking about the thing itself (Kant "das Ding an sich") yet we only have our sensory perception of waves in space-time that may have been caused by... something.

OK, deliberately calling in the philosophical cavalry Due to my skepticism against an absolute reality (and even more against our hope to have a grasp of it) I try to stay clear from those heated discussions. Very happy to have found a benevolent corner (albeit lots of positive input from -- what a coincidence -- @Malevolent ) around here where one is even free to like the Nightowl without being cut up and fed to the dogs Keep it up and here's to future positive discussions.

side note: I try to keep the used of smileys down to a minimal level (and I hate that there's no simple way to keep them as text and not have them inverted into ugly graphics), but if anything sounds offensive its most likely not intended to be and simply did not receive a marking smiley due to exceeded total smiley-count.

I'm honestly glad that we've crafted a friendly corner in the (sometimes) raucous world of the audiophile community. Like you, I've seen far too many elitist opinions flying about; it can be very taxing to follow, and I might imagine, even more exhausting if you were to be engaged in such a debate.

In here, we're all just audiophiles / melophiles looking for a little slice of perfection (with our music).

However, did I forget to mention the one cardinal rule in this thread? Thou shalt not proclaim the superiority of an open-back over a closed headphone.

 

[Malevolent]

@AudioDuck @FullBright1

Hey, fellow LCD-XC fans, where have you been?

To be honest, I was guilty of ignoring the LCD-XC for some time, owing to its tonal imbalance. With that being said, I've recently compared it with some of the stalwarts of the closed-back fraternity, and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that it remains a top-level performer. I'm still not a fan of its midrange, but the bass and treble sections are very potent, indeed. The LCD-XC is, in fact, an exceptional performer with EDM; as a huge dance music fan, the Audeze gets top marks in this regard.

 

[ADUHF]

Don't laugh, but another closed HP I've listened to recently and sort of liked in some ways is the Bose NC 700. Bass and lower midrange response seems to have a vague similarity to the Z1R. The Bose has some brightness issues in the 1.5 to 2.0 kHz range though. And also appears more restrained in the mid-treble than the Z1R.

I'm not a big fan of noise-cancelling HPs though, so the NC 700 will not be on my holiday shopping list this year.

However, did I forget to mention the one cardinal rule in this thread? Thou shalt not proclaim the superiority of an open-back over a closed headphone.

Duly noted!

 

[plakat]

Quick! Delete your Head-Fi account! Enjoy the heck out of your AH-D9200; it's truly end-game-level, IMO.

However, the horizon always beckons. Thankfully, apart from the Hifiman HE-R10 (planar), and a possible MDR-Z1R successor, nothing appears ready to challenge the status quo. Maybe it's time to relax and just enjoy my music? The obsession with gear can be a little draining at times.

I'm really enjoying the D9200, a perfect balance over the whole spectrum, very good comfort, easy to drive, nice to look at and hold... and all that at a almost reasonable price (and even a very good price when compared to other options). Yes, I think I can live with this one for quite some time. It's not that the new toys are too interesting anyway...

I'm honestly glad that we've crafted a friendly corner in the (sometimes) raucous world of the audiophile community. Like you, I've seen far too many elitist opinions flying about; it can be very taxing to follow, and I might imagine, even more exhausting if you were to be engaged in such a debate.

In here, we're all just audiophiles / melophiles looking for a little slice of perfection (with our music).

However, did I forget to mention the one cardinal rule in this thread? Thou shalt not proclaim the superiority of an open-back over a closed headphone.

Absolutely. Many of those discussions produce just warm/hot air in my opinion... one can spend time in a better, more productive way. Unfortunately all things audio seem to be specifically prone to religious discussions, and especially inclined to ignore that our senses are not absolute and not usable for measurements. A quick mix between fact, impression and opinion gives heated discussions that won't lead to any tangible results. OK, no new rant

I've never quite understood the existence of open-back headphones... to me isolation was always part of the positive traits of headphones, i.e. being able to listen to my music in public places (public transport, cafes etc.) without disturbing others and without ruining my hearing by trying to drown out noise through higher volume.

I know its much harder (physically harder) to construct good sounding closed headphones... but the hard problems are the interesting ones. Hard doesn't mean impossible after all... It's nice to see more good sounding closed models.

Another thing I like with this thread is that there seem to be many who do not listen to classic audiophile material (those same old songs always used at shows etc., getting old even for the ones I liked long ago) but many other genres and artists. After all we're buying these headphones for our personal enjoyment, so they have to sound good with whatever we want to listen to.

I've once heard a speaker demoed at a show using a recording of a triangle. Pure triangle. Nice, but who listens to pure triangle at home? Honestly I don't care the least bit if a triangle solo sounds good on a speaker. Yet this demonstrates the problem: the point they wanted to make was the technical ability of their speaker, not what their product could do to help with my needs.

 

[Terriero]

Yes, if you've followed the evolution of Crinacle's twin ranking lists, you'd easily understand his tonality preferences; anything that strays away from his preferred signature(s) will, typically, be ranked lower on the aforementioned lists. In this regard, I can understand Crinacle perfectly; if I was tasked to rank a group of headphones or IEMs, any product that fits my subjective criteria will be elevated to a higher tier; those residing beyond the boundaries of my preferential targets are usually discarded, or left by the wayside.

Case-in-point, the Sennheiser HD 800 S - it's lauded for its technical supremacy, and rightfully so; it is a maestro at detail and staging. However, it's also a (very) boring headphone, and I could never enjoy any of my music on them. Thus, it'll be ranked within the lower-half of my list.

At the end of the day, we buy what we enjoy; one man's trash is another man's treasure, after all.

For Christmas, I am thinking of picking up a Beyerdynamic T5 (3rd Generation). It isn't the headphone for everyone, and it's quite a polarizing choice. However, that dark, rich sound is quite addictive. Argh!

HD 800 at the lower-half of your list? Then I throw tomatoes to you

 

[Terriero]

Quick! Delete your Head-Fi account! Enjoy the heck out of your AH-D9200; it's truly end-game-level, IMO.

However, the horizon always beckons. Thankfully, apart from the Hifiman HE-R10 (planar), and a possible MDR-Z1R successor, nothing appears ready to challenge the status quo. Maybe it's time to relax and just enjoy my music? The obsession with gear can be a little draining at times.

No, don't delete... We will miss him and his wallet will miss us

I'm totally agree with your second sentence

 

[FullBright1]

@AudioDuck @FullBright1

Hey, fellow LCD-XC fans, where have you been?

To be honest, I was guilty of ignoring the LCD-XC for some time, owing to its tonal imbalance. With that being said, I've recently compared it with some of the stalwarts of the closed-back fraternity, and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that it remains a top-level performer. I'm still not a fan of its midrange, but the bass and treble sections are very potent, indeed. The LCD-XC is, in fact, an exceptional performer with EDM; as a huge dance music fan, the Audeze gets top marks in this regard.

Does the XC have midrange?
Of course im kidding..
Thing is tho..... when a headphone is not designed to pleasure you with its lush, sensual, tonal aspects, then it ither a bass head phone, or a microscope.
The XC is a Microscope. Microscopes dont provide pleasure as their end game sonics, they provide insight as their main reason to exist.
If a listener is only concerned with a pleasurable listening experience, then the XC is not going to be their final cup of tea.
It provides a specific insightful pleasure, dialed in regarding listeners who want to see the total package, the internal viewpoint.

 

[AudioDuck]

@AudioDuck @FullBright1

Hey, fellow LCD-XC fans, where have you been?

To be honest, I was guilty of ignoring the LCD-XC for some time, owing to its tonal imbalance. With that being said, I've recently compared it with some of the stalwarts of the closed-back fraternity, and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that it remains a top-level performer. I'm still not a fan of its midrange, but the bass and treble sections are very potent, indeed. The LCD-XC is, in fact, an exceptional performer with EDM; as a huge dance music fan, the Audeze gets top marks in this regard.

Well, I DID note that it’s my first post as a newbie. Seriously though, I agree- the XC’s midrange is where I need to “patch it up” a little, which I am pretty confident a high-end copper cable can help that! I already love what the cans do with good-to-excellent recordings, now it’s time to smooth out poorer recordings a little. To a point made earlier, the “microscope” nature of the XCs can made that tricky. Fortunately the SRH-1540s are much more forgiving.

 

[Malevolent]

Another thing I like with this thread is that there seem to be many who do not listen to classic audiophile material (those same old songs always used at shows etc., getting old even for the ones I liked long ago) but many other genres and artists. After all we're buying these headphones for our personal enjoyment, so they have to sound good with whatever we want to listen to.

Yes, I cannot agree with this point enough.

A lot of audiophiles I know describe their listening experiences with genres that I have absolutely no interest in; jazz and classical are the 2 that come to mind. Whilst there is nothing inherently wrong with these musical styles, they are not my flavors of tea at all.

Hence, when a reviewer praises a headphone for its ability to reproduce nuances or detail within a classical track, for example, I find it difficult - or near impossible - to relate; I need something that hits closer to home. However, if the impressions were taken across a wider spectrum of genres, or if the reviewer is an EDM fan, that's a (huge) bonus for me - I can better comprehend what the reviewer requires and/or desires in the reproduction of a dance track - a thumping bassline, or an energetic, rich treble, for example.

I've once heard a speaker demoed at a show using a recording of a triangle. Pure triangle. Nice, but who listens to pure triangle at home? Honestly I don't care the least bit if a triangle solo sounds good on a speaker. Yet this demonstrates the problem: the point they wanted to make was the technical ability of their speaker, not what their product could do to help with my needs.

Speaking of a triangle..

I was once asked to play the triangle in my elementary class band; there was no space for a drummer. Honestly, I felt like the saddest member of the ensemble. Every 30 seconds or so, I was supposed to hit the darned triangle to produce that distinct sound that nobody appeared to enjoy.

Ahhh, what memories.

 

[Malevolent]

HD 800 at the lower-half of your list? Then I throw tomatoes to you

It's okay, I'll trade a cart of tomatoes for the HD 800. It's yours.

Honestly, I did try to enjoy the HD 800 and the HD 800 S. They are extremely detailed cans, with a massive soundstage. From the technical side of things, the twin headphones are truly impressive. However, they are also very sterile in tonality; ultimately, my music simply didn't sound engaging, fun, or musical on the Sennheiser headphones.

Oh, well.

 

[plakat]

Yes, I cannot agree with this point enough.

A lot of audiophiles I know describe their listening experiences with genres that I have absolutely no interest in; jazz and classical are the 2 that come to mind. Whilst there is nothing inherently wrong with these musical styles, they are not my flavors of tea at all.

Hence, when a reviewer praises a headphone for its ability to reproduce nuances or detail within a classical track, for example, I find it difficult - or near impossible - to relate; I need something that hits closer to home. However, if the impressions were taken across a wider spectrum of genres, or if the reviewer is an EDM fan, that's a (huge) bonus for me - I can better comprehend what the reviewer requires and/or desires in the reproduction of a dance track - a thumping bassline, or an energetic, rich treble, for example.


Speaking of a triangle..

I was once asked to play the triangle in my elementary class band; there was no space for a drummer. Honestly, I felt like the saddest member of the ensemble. Every 30 seconds or so, I was supposed to hit the darned triangle to produce that distinct sound that nobody appeared to enjoy.

Ahhh, what memories.

That's better than playing kettledrum in some classical works: they have to sit through the whole evening for 2-3 strokes max

I know some people active in the development of headphones, and had many discussions with them. Also about music for testing, because I, of course, always used my EDM collection to demo their precious toys... and while I think it might be easier to enjoy electronic music (as the old saying goes: no one has ever heard a synthesize...) because I can to a certain degree simply define what I want something to sound like because there is no "real" sound like with a violin, the stress that EDM and other electronic genres put on gear is simply very different.

Keeping with kettledrums (love that word and have to reuse it since I just looked it up, not being a native speaker) its nice and fun to have them active for a short duration, but the stress for a speaker (or headphone) is completely different if that is the ever-active basis for a piece, putting the diaphragm on a constant journey while demanding mid and treble detail without compression. Plus voices... So No, EDM is different, but nonetheless taxing on gear.

Good example: I've heard of many long standing PA systems breaking when Drum&Bass came into being: those systems were well capable to hit the 1/2/3/4 beats with 50Hz, but were completely undersized for the breakbeat rather of D&B with a near constant low freq activity. Many drivers were burnt in that time... I've yet to hear a violin do that

So I think its important to get this point across to reviewers: if you want us to read your stuff, write about something we can relate to. And please: not Daft Punk (older stuff is OK, but Get Lucky... come on). This is just another aspect a good headphone has to also be competent at. I do like Jazz, but I think I've not listened to any Jazz title on headphones ever.

It's okay, I'll trade a cart of tomatoes for the HD 800. It's yours.

Honestly, I did try to enjoy the HD 800 and the HD 800 S. They are extremely detailed cans, with a massive soundstage. From the technical side of things, the twin headphones are truly impressive. However, they are also very sterile in tonality; ultimately, my music simply didn't sound engaging, fun, or musical on the Sennheiser headphones.

Oh, well.

While I found the HD800S to be much more musical, overall both are examples of technical aspects holding music hostage I think: they are simply good at things I don'T care about. Simple as that. I won't start to listen to that just to demo the technical abilities of a headphone, sorry Sennheiser.

 

[Malevolent]

Well, I DID note that it’s my first post as a newbie. Seriously though, I agree- the XC’s midrange is where I need to “patch it up” a little, which I am pretty confident a high-end copper cable can help that! I already love what the cans do with good-to-excellent recordings, now it’s time to smooth out poorer recordings a little. To a point made earlier, the “microscope” nature of the XCs can made that tricky. Fortunately the SRH-1540s are much more forgiving.

Thankfully, whilst being endowed with excellent resolving capabilities, the LCD-XC falls short of being labelled a detail monster (and this is a good thing, IMO). They retain a musical and engaging streak; in fact, I'm enjoying the LCD-XC with EDM as I'm typing this.

Sadly, my neck is suffering the effects of an extended listening session, so I might have to give it a rest soon. They are really heavy.

 

[Malevolent]

That's better than playing kettledrum in some classical works: they have to sit through the whole evening for 2-3 strokes max

I know some people active in the development of headphones, and had many discussions with them. Also about music for testing, because I, of course, always used my EDM collection to demo their precious toys... and while I think it might be easier to enjoy electronic music (as the old saying goes: no one has ever heard a synthesize...) because I can to a certain degree simply define what I want something to sound like because there is no "real" sound like with a violin, the stress that EDM and other electronic genres put on gear is simply very different.

Keeping with kettledrums (love that word and have to reuse it since I just looked it up, not being a native speaker) its nice and fun to have them active for a short duration, but the stress for a speaker (or headphone) is completely different if that is the ever-active basis for a piece, putting the diaphragm on a constant journey while demanding mid and treble detail without compression. Plus voices... So No, EDM is different, but nonetheless taxing on gear.

Good example: I've heard of many long standing PA systems breaking when Drum&Bass came into being: those systems were well capable to hit the 1/2/3/4 beats with 50Hz, but were completely undersized for the breakbeat rather of D&B with a near constant low freq activity. Many drivers were burnt in that time... I've yet to hear a violin do that

So I think its important to get this point across to reviewers: if you want us to read your stuff, write about something we can relate to. And please: not Daft Punk (older stuff is OK, but Get Lucky... come on). This is just another aspect a good headphone has to also be competent at. I do like Jazz, but I think I've not listened to any Jazz title on headphones ever.

Very salient points, my friend.

On this very topic, one of the misconceptions that I've heard being bandied about - and this came from an audiophile acquaintance of mine - was that EDM isn't as complex, in harmonic arrangement, as "live" music, such as Rock and Pop. I'm (also) a hobbyist DJ, and as someone who's been listening to dance music for most of my life, I couldn't disagree more. I think EDM, as an umbrella term, consists of a multitude of incredibly complex and layered varieties of dance music. The arrangement of beats, melodies, synths, samples, et al within a single track can be excessive, but impressively so.

Daft Punk was and is a class act, but their older productions were certainly of a higher caliber. Around The World remains one of my favorite tracks to bop your head to.

While I found the HD800S to be much more musical, overall both are examples of technical aspects holding music hostage I think: they are simply good at things I don'T care about. Simple as that. I won't start to listen to that just to demo the technical abilities of a headphone, sorry Sennheiser.

Again, I'm in agreement. The HD 800 (and its 'S' variant) are surgeons with a scalpel; they are precise to a fault. It's a shame that they don't see the lighter side of life.

 

[plakat]

Very salient points, my friend.

On this very topic, one of the misconceptions that I've heard being bandied about - and this came from an audiophile acquaintance of mine - was that EDM isn't as complex, in harmonic arrangement, as "live" music, such as Rock and Pop. I'm (also) a hobbyist DJ, and as someone who's been listening to dance music for most of my life, I couldn't disagree more. I think EDM, as an umbrella term, consists of a multitude of incredibly complex and layered varieties of dance music. The arrangement of beats, melodies, synths, samples, et al within a single track can be excessive, but impressively so.

Daft Punk was and is a class act, but their older productions were certainly of a higher caliber. Around The World remains one of my favorite tracks to bop your head to.


Again, I'm in agreement. The HD 800 (and its 'S' variant) are surgeons with a scalpel; they are precise to a fault. It's a shame that they don't see the lighter side of life.

Yes, electronica is such a wide field. Of course, something like Technotronic (remember those?) may not be of the highest complexity, yet can be so much fun at times. Other titles are immensely complex and layered constructs... and what many forget is that especially EDM can also be a live act, often performed by the DJ: mixing tracks together to create something new on the spot, adding live production elements... just as Rap/Hip Hop did with scratching. So no, the argument of missing complexity is empty -- yet I'd not even consider that an argument... ask any fan of Free Jazz: you have to listen for quite some time to get the hang of it (I don't btw). Ambient electronica will sound boring, but many enjoy it if it fits the mood.

I've done live sound for many years, also DJing. And at times its necessary for things like Neue Deutsche Welle or Schlager as well... ignoring a whole genre because its 'not complex' simply deprives one of a possibly fun experience. And that's what music means to me: having fun, getting delighted, going with my mood (or sometimes against it).

And what is easily forgotten: what we now know as classical is only the persistent body, the essence so to say. There was a lot of music then of lesser quality that was simply forgotten... same will happen with electronica (and has already started to happen with Pop/Rock). And yes, maybe even with EDM...

Oh, and regarding missing complexity: KLF anybody? Yello? Prodigy? Bomb the Bass and others from the first wave of sampling bands? If a headphone or a speaker can't do these things well, I don't need it.

Of course a simple bass canon won't do justice to electronic music, too many details are lost. Overall requirements are similar to other genres, only the relative importance is different I'd say.

I think there are many folks enjoying EDM etc., and I think its important to not accept the gospel that for evaluating headphones/gear you have to resort to specific genres or even titles. Out money, our preferences, our choice.