[Antistase]

Shamu,

Drosera report is about the 25 ohm DT48. Which impedance is yours?

A

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamu144 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Drosera for sharing your impressions. I'll definitely add my grain of salt and emphasize that my findings are very different from yours, which is why I think it is probably wise to recommend people trying by themselves before final judgment The one thing I agree with you is the very noticeable effect volume-wise when switching from 0 ohms to 120 ohms. On the Lavry, I must adjust the volume from 15/20 up to 30/35 on par now with my K501... Nothing to worry about though. Other than that, I have done some more comparisons with the same consistant results. However, the differences for me are indeed subtles between both output (well in my case, with or without adapter). Mids and especially vocals become better defined with a better separation and sligthly less forward sounding. You can just identify more easily different voices in a choir or more clearly "see" the contour of Diana Krall's voice for example. Switching back to the 0 ohms output and you irremediably lose resolution and control in the mids. Highs have now a more noticeable presence and what seem to me a sligtly better extension, though this could as well be the result of the less forward mids which allow a better integration of all frequencies. As for bass, there is without a doubt more of it, and it comes together with a better impact, weight and control (obvious on John Clayton's solo on East of the Sun - Diana Krall Live in Paris), which is certainly not something DT48 owner would complain about. I am of course unable to provide any technical explanations to support my findings, but I also find striking the fact that the DT48E is the only current headphone in production for which Beyer specifically recommends a nominal source impedance of 120 ohms, unlike the DT880/DT770/DT250/DT150/etc....

There's so much about the DT48 we don't know.. Like Kevin talking about the different magnets overtime that could make some DT48's sound better or different. A lot is still a mystery. I have 3 DT48a, & can't explain why one sounds extra smooth over the other two.. They do have all black cups with some numbers which is unique.. I wish I knew the yr they were made. Beyers takes extra precaution with the DT48. Every part is replaceable. You can build your own. Source impedance of 120 ohms. The DT48a & Beyer T1 are the only Beyer headphones where every transducer is hand selected & matched in sets for optimal balance.. That's what is in the DT48a pamphlet. I read about many channel imbalances with the DT880, none with the DT48a/s/e. I have a DT48e with a 120 ohm adapter & can't say one way or the other if it's truly better.. The sound is titled more towards warmth, but I suspect that's the Cardas cable. This is the 8ohm version..

The DT48 is just a unique & mis understood headphone. I would have loved to pick the brain of Eugene Beyer & his engineers about the DT48. You would think the first headphone ever created wouldn't be shrouded in mystery. Many who are in this hobby never even heard of them?? & documentation would be great. A open DT48? Woody DT48?

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamu144 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The one thing I agree with you is the very noticeable effect volume-wise when switching from 0 ohms to 120 ohms. On the Lavry, I must adjust the volume from 15/20 up to 30/35 on par now with my K501... Nothing to worry about though.

What I found worrying was not so much the fact that I had to compensate with the volume knob (that makes perfect sense, of course), but that I had to compensate so much more with the 25 ohm version than with the 200 ohm. Add to that that the 25 ohm version is really 25 ohm (I measured) and not for example a 25+120=145 ohm in disguise (which would more sense in the light of the recommendation for 120 ohm output impedance) and it already seemed that the amp would not have an easy time with 25 ohms from a 120 ohm output.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamu144 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Drosera for sharing your impressions. I'll definitely add my grain of salt and emphasize that my findings are very different from yours, which is why I think it is probably wise to recommend people trying by themselves before final judgment

I completely agree with you, and that's what I would normally recommend. The complicating factors of amp-headphone synergy and personal taste (also a kind of synergy

) make any general recommendation virtually impossible. And in fact, when I first started listening to the DT-48, I did prefer it with a 120 ohm output. However, in this case Antistase asked for a specific recommendation for a situation in which he wasn't able to easily experiment with both options. And my findings at least seem to make more sense with what we know about how an amp interacts with a headphone in general. Apart from the different synergistic reasons mentioned above the only other reason I can think of for using a 120 ohm output is that it might give a somewhat flatter response in the mids (simply because Beyerdynamic designed it that way). But that's merely hypothetical since I haven't been able to hear that and have no way to measure for it.

 

[H-ermes]

Hello everybody,

I've bought an old DT 48e (20 ohm version). I've received it Saturday and I'm listening to it since. My pads are mode with black PVC.

I'm deeply sorry, because I did not read the 98 pages of this thread. So excuse me, if the answers to my questions were already given.

1. What is, for you, the best pads to be used with this headphone ? Where can I buy them (I'm from France) ?

2. After a 4 hours listening sessions, I see water / sweat inside the headphone. Is it normal ? What should I do in order to avoid it ?

Thanks for your answers,

H.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-ermes /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello everybody, I've bought an old DT 48e (20 ohm version). I've received it Saturday and I'm listening to it since. My pads are mode with black PVC. I'm deeply sorry, because I did not read the 98 pages of this thread. So excuse me, if the answers to my questions were already given.

Congratulations on your purchase! I hope you're liking them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-ermes /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1. What is, for you, the best pads to be used with this headphone ? Where can I buy them (I'm from France) ?

As far as I know, there's only one kind of pads available for this headphone and those are the official DT-48E pads. In France your best bet is probably to order them from Thomann.de.

EDIT: Here's another (French) seller, much more expensive though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-ermes /img/forum/go_quote.gif 2. After a 4 hours listening sessions, I see water / sweat inside the headphone. Is it normal ? What should I do in order to avoid it ?

Uhm, yeah, that's normal. I don't think it's anything to worry about, the aluminium driver housing is simply the coldest part in the cup, so that's where condensation collects. Just wipe it off if it bothers you.

 

[Slash47]

I ordered some T1's, but I'd like something affordable and durable on the side for a different flavor every now and again. It would be great if this 'phone would excel at baroque music. I have a lot of very good recordings, both on vinyl and on cd. I don't care about bass too much with headphones, as long as it isn't boomy which I don't think I need to worry about here

After some research I'm considering the DT48E 25Ohm and a used K501, but I'd prefer a new can so the DT48 would be better in that respect.

Good idea? Any other suggestions?

I'm also buying a new amp, so that doesn't really play into this decision.

(Sorry, I didn't read much of the previous 99 pages. Only the first few

)

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slash47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif (Sorry, I didn't read much of the previous 99 pages. Only the first few )

Pfff, what is it with people and their unwillingness to spend some time reading!?

(Actually, I mean that only half in jest. Sure, it's a bit time-wasting, but I've learned so much working my way through mountains of posts.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slash47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I ordered some T1's, but I'd like something affordable and durable on the side for a different flavor every now and again. It would be great if this 'phone would excel at baroque music. I have a lot of very good recordings, both on vinyl and on cd. I don't care about bass too much with headphones, as long as it isn't boomy which I don't think I need to worry about here After some research I'm considering the DT48E 25Ohm and a used K501, but I'd prefer a new can so the DT48 would be better in that respect. Good idea? Any other suggestions?

While a DT48E would be an excellent choice for baroque, in my opinion, because I personally find it especially well suited to smaller scale repertoire, I don't know if in this case it would be dissimilar enough to the T1 to be what you're looking for. Okay, I haven't actually heard the T1 yet (it's definitely at the top of my shopping list though), but other Beyerdynamic 'phones like the DT880 seem to share at least that dry and neutralish signature that typifies the DT48. Of course, the fact that it's closed vs. the open T1 will already give it a different character.

But if you really want something that imparts a rather different flavour on your music the K501 might be the more interesting choice. Actually, I would consider getting its predecessor, the K500, since it's far easier to get (at least, on German eBay) and has the superior pads (both acoustically and comfort-wise). Then again, the K501 seems to have the slight edge in detail.

Both are excellent choices for this particular kind of music, it's hard to think of any other headphones that I would recommend alongside them. I think it's simply a matter if you value neutrality above all (DT-48) or would like some of that slightly and very attractively coloured vintage AKG sound.

Of course, you actually should just get both, because that is the proper head-fi way.

 

[Slash47]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pfff, what is it with people and their unwillingness to spend some time reading!? ... Of course, you actually should just get both, because that is the proper head-fi way.

I might, thanks.

And I know what you mean about reading stuff, I will. To tell you the truth I read plenty of posts, I just needed that final push towards wasting my money.

(And you should definitely try the T1. Compared to the DT880 it's much more lively and vibrant without sacrificing anything at all. It's great and I can't wait to have my own!)

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slash47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just needed that final push towards wasting my money.

Head-fi is here to help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slash47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif (And you should definitely try the T1. Compared to the DT880 it's much more lively and vibrant without sacrificing anything at all. It's great and I can't wait to have my own!)

Sounds very good, and actually I hope that that peak in the highs the DT880 has, has been 'sacrificed' a little. But going by the reports, I think it has. All reports up till now, as well as the comparisons with the HD800, have been so congruent with my tastes that I'll probably buy it unheard.

 

[H-ermes]

@Drosera

Thanks for your answer.

I really appreciate the neutrality of this headphone. I am a lucky owner of a GS 1000 from Grado and I really both of the sound. What i like with this headphone is the absolute restitution of everything. Everything is here, it's a chirurgical headphone.

I'm not a pro. When I bought it, I was looking for a very neutral closed headphone and for that, I'm not disappointed.

Do you compare DT 48 with DT 100 or DT 150 ? What were your conclusions ?

H.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-ermes /img/forum/go_quote.gif @Drosera Thanks for your answer. I really appreciate the neutrality of this headphone. I am a lucky owner of a GS 1000 from Grado and I really both of the sound. What i like with this headphone is the absolute restitution of everything. Everything is here, it's a chirurgical headphone. I'm not a pro. When I bought it, I was looking for a very neutral closed headphone and for that, I'm not disappointed. Do you compare DT 48 with DT 100 or DT 150 ? What were your conclusions ? H.

You have the best of both worlds.. The GS1000 has a great sound stage, ample bass, & is more fun sounding.. & a great contrast to the DT48.

Did you mean surgical? Yes, the DT48 is a precise instrument.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pfff, what is it with people and their unwillingness to spend some time reading!? (Actually, I mean that only half in jest. Sure, it's a bit time-wasting, but I've learned so much working my way through mountains of posts.) While a DT48E would be an excellent choice for baroque, in my opinion, because I personally find it especially well suited to smaller scale repertoire, I don't know if in this case it would be dissimilar enough to the T1 to be what you're looking for. Okay, I haven't actually heard the T1 yet (it's definitely at the top of my shopping list though), but other Beyerdynamic 'phones like the DT880 seem to share at least that dry and neutralish signature that typifies the DT48. Of course, the fact that it's closed vs. the open T1 will already give it a different character. But if you really want something that imparts a rather different flavour on your music the K501 might be the more interesting choice. Actually, I would consider getting its predecessor, the K500, since it's far easier to get (at least, on German eBay) and has the superior pads (both acoustically and comfort-wise). Then again, the K501 seems to have the slight edge in detail. Both are excellent choices for this particular kind of music, it's hard to think of any other headphones that I would recommend alongside them. I think it's simply a matter if you value neutrality above all (DT-48) or would like some of that slightly and very attractively coloured vintage AKG sound. Of course, you actually should just get both, because that is the proper head-fi way.

Do you think the DT48 mid range sounds dry?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slash47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I might, thanks. And I know what you mean about reading stuff, I will. To tell you the truth I read plenty of posts, I just needed that final push towards wasting my money. (And you should definitely try the T1. Compared to the DT880 it's much more lively and vibrant without sacrificing anything at all. It's great and I can't wait to have my own!)

I might buy the T1 in April, HE-5 or OPPO83SE.. I'm getting back less then expected, so the HD800 would be a stretch..

Due to flame bait, I would never say this in the T1 thread, but I think the T1 might be a downgrade in some areas compared to the DT48.. I still feel the T1 will be the better headphone overall.. But when it comes to Neutrality, I keep hearing mixed messages from owners.. It's on the warm side of neutral & lush? & Bass doesn't seem to change with the recording, which tells me the bass is influenced by the headphone & not the recording. Seems like Beyers wants it both way.. The DT48 is Neutral, flat, balanced, & transparent to the extreme, especially the NAGRA DT48S & DT48A.. I feel Beyer wanted to 'modernize' the DT48e with their new models.. IMO, while the new models correct some 'audiophile' flaws.. Better highs & treble, larger sound stage, more bass with a bit more punch, it loses some of the magic that made then unique & special.. Compare the 08 DT48e to the NAGRA DT48s from the 50's & vintage DT48e, you will hear what I mean.. Compared to the NAGRA/DT48a the new DT48e sounds a bit colored compared to the others, with overly crisp/artificial highs, minor, but there.. & find them less natural sounding, & a bit harsh & fatiguing after a while..

The vintage DT48a/e/NAGRA are on another level in technical terms/performance when it comes to the DT880 250 ohm IMO.. The newer DT48e, not much so..Better, but not on another level better.

Of course, I could be totally wrong about the T1.. I'd love to compare Beyers first flagship headphone to their latest

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slash47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I ordered some T1's, but I'd like something affordable and durable on the side for a different flavor every now and again. It would be great if this 'phone would excel at baroque music. I have a lot of very good recordings, both on vinyl and on cd. I don't care about bass too much with headphones, as long as it isn't boomy which I don't think I need to worry about here After some research I'm considering the DT48E 25Ohm and a used K501, but I'd prefer a new can so the DT48 would be better in that respect. Good idea? Any other suggestions? I'm also buying a new amp, so that doesn't really play into this decision. (Sorry, I didn't read much of the previous 99 pages. Only the first few )

There is a great review about the DT48e VS the 501.. You could try & search for it.. Is buying the DT48e a good idea? Not sure.. They are very polarizing, & will get responses like, they are the worst headphones I ever heard to, they are simply amazing.. If you know what you are getting yourself into, go for it.. They don't sound like any dynamic headphone I have ever heard before.. They just get out of the way of the music, for the better or for the worse..

All I know is, the DT48 must be doing something right.. They been in production for 73 yrs.. No headphone has come close to being in production longer..Since Beyer isn't into losing money, they must be profiting on the DT48..I know they are good for ENG/measurements/field test/broadcasting/voice reproduction/laboratories/audiologist/Hospistals/ ENT's..

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-ermes /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you compare DT 48 with DT 100 or DT 150 ? What were your conclusions ?

I've been eyeing the DT100, DT150 and DT250 for quite a while now. Especially because they are rather affordable 'phones and probably share at least some of the DT48 signature. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to trying them to compare with the DT48, and neither has anyone else to my knowledge.

EDIT: Oh, I've found one. Don't know how much use that one will be though. I guess it is safe to say that they are rather different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you think the DT48 mid range sounds dry?

Uhoh, the challenges of describing sound.

If I look at the definition in the glossary:

Quote:

Dry - Lack of reverberation or delay as produced by a damped environment. May comes across as fine grained and lean. Opposite of Wet.

That's not what I mean, no.

"Cool" doesn't really seem right either, perhaps I will just go with "flat" then, hard to think of another way to describe it. What I meant is that there is a certain Beyerdynamic house-signature that the DT48 and DT880 share in colouring of the sound (or lack of that), similar to the shared signature of the K500/K501 and the K1000. Something instantly recognizable.

 

[Drosera]

@Slash47:

By the way, where did you get the chance to hear the T1? Is there a shop in The Netherlands that has them in stock?