[Deep Funk]

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Mmm, sounds like you have a keeper...What a bummer ! 

Maybe, I am not sure yet...
 
 

 

[tbger99]

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Thanks ! I concurr that the change introduced by the impedance adapter is subtle, though they do improve overall linearity and performance (don't use crap resistor though). However, the A version sounds quite different with especially more energy in the highs to my ears, while the low end response will be almost unchanged, and probably not to your liking. By the way, what kind of sound do you record ?
 
 

I record mainly live music - concerts I attend, and occasionally also interesting lectures.

 

[Soaa-]

 
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Soaa-, based on Tyll's measurements, it looks like there will be a difference in tonality between the Etymotic and the Phonak, which appears to pronounce the lower half more.  Treble may be better than the Etymotic's, but I'm afraid the mids are significantly withdrawn as well.  I don't know what you're looking for, but if you need a natural production of sound, you basically want a headphone with less accentuated high mids and treble than the Etymotic's.  On the graphs it looks like the Shure SE535 will be the way to go, I'm sad I can't afford them right now.

What you say about the Etys is odd, as they emphasize the high mids precisely because that's what our ear lobes do. The bump is slightly smaller on the PFE (with grey filters), but present nonetheless. High treble reproduction seems similar between the two as well.
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudeoPFE121GrayFilter.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/EtymoticER4PT.pdf
 
For good measure...
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT48E120Ohm.pdf

 

[tbger99]

Nevermind, I was looking at the green-filter ones.  Indeed, treble on these and the Etymotic is pretty much equal.
 
Trying to base what I hear on the ER-4PT's graph, it's probably the overall difference in dB between the high mids and the other frequencies.  To my ears it just doesn't sound natural, too accentuated.  (Not the little slope on 1KHz by the way.)  On the SE535 there's a significantly smaller amoung of high mids and treble, which makes me thing it should sound generally better (to me).
 
By the way it's not harsh by any means - just not satisfying for me.
 
Also, of course it might have something to do with the microphones as well, placing them is very crucial.  But the thing is, this accentuation is always there.  No matter what I change, I couldn't get the natural cymbal out of them in this aspect of the sound.
 
Might be different to your ears though.   I actually hope so, for your wallet's good.  

 

[Acix]

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Maybe, I am not sure yet...
 
 

At the same price of the HD-250 ll ($150-$200 used) you'll have other options, like the K-702, HD-600, Sony SA3K. MDR-F1. I stop trying to get 250ll when I got my Ultrasones Pro-650.

 

 

 

[Syliano]

I was debating about getting these headphones again. I need something accurate for mixing, I'm using  my hd600 right now but I am hearing that the hd600 isn't as neutral as I need it to be, it's as if the hd600 is making my midrange thicker then it really is. I guess i'm going for studio monitors, I was thinking about getting the dt48's but it seems thomann has raised the price to 328 euro's (used to be 275). So I am not buying. Would it have been a good solution though? HD600 for bass and tonal reference and the dt 48 for accurate sound and mixing from low mid to the highs.

 

[Acix]

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I was debating about getting these headphones again. I need something accurate for mixing, I'm using  my hd600 right now but I am hearing that the hd600 isn't as neutral as I need it to be, it's as if the hd600 is making my midrange thicker then it really is. I guess i'm going for studio monitors, I was thinking about getting the dt48's but it seems thomann has raised the price to 328 euro's (used to be 275). So I am not buying. Would it have been a good solution though? HD600 for bass and tonal reference and the dt 48 for accurate sound and mixing from low mid to the highs.

As my main hps for mixing and mastering I use the K-702 with Mogami quad 2534 cable, and the Apogee mini DAC. I also have the Violectric V-100 hp amp, but I still prefer to work with the Apogee. The DT-48S for me is more like to compare the NS-10, to the Adams A7 that sounds more like the K-702. Sometimes I just check my mix in mono with the 48S just to be sure everything is under control, more like second or third pair of monitor speakers.
 

 

[Syliano]

I have tried the 701's for me the low end was to dodgy to mix accurate. In that regard the 600 does a better job. But the crappy seal i had with them is probably one of the main reasons judging the low end was so hard. Also the reason i got rid of the denon d2000's next to the midrange dip.

 

[Deep Funk]

I pretty much detest what AKG did to create the K701. Somehow the midrange was only good for vocals and the low end response was not acceptable. 
 
PM replied...

 

[tbger99]

Here's a probable explanation to the brightness I hear on the Etymotics.
 
 
The ER-4PT frequency curve was generated at a 100dB SPL - it might imply for the SPL they were designed to be listened at.
 

 
 
Assuming these (following) curves reflect the actual behavior of our ear canal (though it shouldn't be hard to calculate the HRTF curve Etymotic used), they indicate that a different frequency compensation is required for different SPLs, which is obvious, but here you can see exactly how and where on the spectrum.
 

 
The required compensation around 2k-5k differs in up to 10dB between 100dB and 90dB (difference is bigger in lower SPL's).  This is the area I felt was overly pronounced, and this explains what I heard and why.
 
Obviously we should listen to headphones at the SPL they were designed to fully provide their sound signature.  It's more crucial for monitoring - if you want to rely on a headphone trusting its frequency plot, you'll have to reach the same SPL's the curve had been generated on.
 

 

[Acix]

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I have tried the 701's for me the low end was to dodgy to mix accurate. In that regard the 600 does a better job. But the crappy seal i had with them is probably one of the main reasons judging the low end was so hard. Also the reason i got rid of the denon d2000's next to the midrange dip.

 
The low end on my K-702 is very accurate down to 20hz, but you'll need a good SS amp to get there. The K-702 provide provide other advantages working in the studio, like sound stage, great transparency, and accurate micro detail and three dimensional sound positioning.
 

 

 

[svyr]

 
The low end on my K-702 is very accurate down to 20hz, but you'll need a good SS amp to get there. The K-702 provide provide other advantages working in the studio, like sound stage, great transparency, and accurate micro detail and three dimensional sound positioning.
 

 

no offense, but no. it's rolled off a long way before 20hz.... even on compensated FR plots.
There's also odd sounding mids distortion that people usually call plastic-y colored mids

 

[Acix]

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no offense, but no. it's rolled off a long way before 20hz....

I'm not sure you understand what you just said, the rolled off have nothing to do with the K-702 be able to go down to 20Hz. Btw, you're never going to hear the "plastic-y" with good solid state amps.

 

[svyr]

I'm not sure you understand what you just said, the rolled off have nothing to do with the K-702 be able to go down to 20Hz. Btw, you're never going to hear the "plastic-y" with good solid state amps.

it has everything with it being able to go down to 20hz... if it's at -20db, it's no really useful to anyone... That's like saying DT48e can go to 20hz at -40db because of the bass roll-off, hence it can do 20hz. That's just not true and neither of them can at adequate volume because of steep roll-off. SPL auditor is a good solid state amp and I still had that impression (re mids)

 

[Acix]

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it has everything with it being able to go down to 20hz... if it's at -20db, it's no really useful to anyone... That's like saying DT48e can go to 20hz at -40db because of the bass roll-off, hence it can do 20hz. That's just not true and neither of them can at adequate volume because of steep roll-off. SPL auditor is a good solid state amp and I still had that impression (re mids)

 
Please look to this graph and tell me what bass roll-off do you see? From this graph looks like the K702 roll-off @ 20Hz by 3-to-4db, for my mixing and mastering is very useful.