[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel Well revisited MacKerras/EMI and Abbado/DG 2000 and neither is quite good enough for current top 5 list.........but perhaps one from the HIP list below will rise to the challenge and diversify list: Hogwood/Lyre 63:26 Zinman/Arte Nova 59:24 Norrington/Hanssler 61:28 Norrington/Virgin 62:24 Gardiner/Archiv 59:43

Just did a quick listen to the HIP list for 9th and I have a preferred overall version:
Gardiner/Archiv

To me Gardiner sounds most cohesive and unified with great natural rythmic spring that seems less forced. Also his blending of vocal parts with orchestral seems most seamless and flowing. No doubt all his prior experience with Bach, Mozart, Handel etc vocal works pay off and elevates his 9th to the top of the HIPS.

But......
Even the "hippest of the hip" not good enough to displace any of the 5 modern instrument versions listed on my previous list. The lean HIP style is just not ideally suited to the rich dynamic demands of 9th for me, although I often prefer HIP style for early symphonies 1-4........favorites remain:

Karajan/DG Galleria 1977 (not the remaster, original Galleria release)
Munch/BSO/Great Conductors 20th Century 1958 (2CD set)
Bernstein/VPO/DG Panorama 1980 (2CD set with Missa Solemnis)
Klemperer/Testament 1957 (live stereo)
Leinsdorf/BSO/RCA Victrola (budget price)

 

[Bunnyears]

DarkAngel,

If you like the more modern 20th century style big band Beethoven, I wonder that you haven't been attracted to the Blomstedt cycle! He's not idiosyncratic like Bernstein or Furtwangler nor is he as magisterial as Boehm could be, but he is as satisfying as meat and potatoes. You don't get up from one of his symphonies wondering whether you have eaten, and more to the point, he's not boring either.

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears DarkAngel, If you like the more modern 20th century style big band Beethoven, I wonder that you haven't been attracted to the Blomstedt cycle! He's not idiosyncratic like Bernstein or Furtwangler nor is he as magisterial as Boehm could be, but he is as satisfying as meat and potatoes. You don't get up from one of his symphonies wondering whether you have eaten, and more to the point, he's not boring either.

I think the Blomstedt set might be my next Beethoven purchase. I've been looking for a traditional interpretation with great sound. This vs. Klemperer in my mind right now...

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis I think the Blomstedt set might be my next Beethoven purchase. I've been looking for a traditional interpretation with great sound. This vs. Klemperer in my mind right now...

Went with the Blomstedt.

 

[Factor]

Okay, I got the Karajan '77 (original Galleria release) and am listening to it now. Definitely quite different from the Wand version. So far it seems like Karajan is much more methodical, sort of standing back and letting the composition speak for itself. Wand, on the other hand, really leans into it and turns out a more theatrical, "big" reading.

In terms of sound, I'm sort of noticing that occasionally there are parts of the brass and string sections (mostly brass) that jump forward and feel much closer-miked than the rest of the orchestra. It sort of adds an extra layer of texture and I feel it gives the whole thing a slightly more aggressive sound. I don't like or dislike it... just something I noticed.

However, there are a couple things I do dislike. One is the tympani, which doesn't sound as impactful as I'd like. And correct me if I'm wrong but I think I'm actually hearing some minor playing errors by people in the orchestra. I've noticed it a few times so far -- tiny little quack-like anomalies on some of the notes -- but the one that jumped out at me the most is the little squonk that happens on the horn hit just about 93 seconds into movement 1. Somebody want to check this out and confirm I'm hearing what I think I'm hearing?

Anyway, I'm glad you guys led me to this recording. The fact that I'm hearing clear differences between two highly regarded recordings of the same piece makes me a little bit more confident in my classical newbie-ness. And I can't argue with 4 bucks shipped.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor However, there are a couple things I do dislike. One is the tympani, which doesn't sound as impactful as I'd like.

If you want strong, ott tympani then you should at least try and listen to the Hogwood/Academy of Ancient Music B9! That one is really talking Turkish.

 

[PSmith08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor In terms of sound, I'm sort of noticing that occasionally there are parts of the brass and string sections (mostly brass) that jump forward and feel much closer-miked than the rest of the orchestra. It sort of adds an extra layer of texture and I feel it gives the whole thing a slightly more aggressive sound. I don't like or dislike it... just something I noticed.

As has been discussed several times in the thread, DG liked and still likes to spot-mike certain parts of the orchestra. For singers, if done politely, it can be a good thing. Also, the Neue Philharmonie is very boomy, and certain sections (like brass) can fall victim to Herbert von Karajan's idea of what good sound was. That having been said, the '77 is probably HvK's best, and light-years ahead of the '84.

 

[Vicious Tyrant]

I'm kind of embarrassed to say it, since no one has even mentioned it, but my favorite is the Solti recording with Stuart Burrows (a vastly underrated tenor, in my book - check him out as Tamino in Solti's Zauberflote) as the tenor. I don't know off hand when it was recorded, but does it get no love?

 

[JefferyK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot For a more melodic Beethoven, you might try Giulini. He is a little slower than some, but he phrases very beautifully. But that said, the bunny is right. Beethoven was a very angry soul, and his music sometimes reflects that. The pastoral is a great recommendation... Pastoral+Giulini might be just the ticket for you. See ya Steve

How in the world can anyone listen to Beethoven and then state with straight face that he was a "very angry soul"? That's what you hear when you listen to the piano sonatas?

Jeffery

 

[SoundsGood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicious Tyrant I'm kind of embarrassed to say it, since no one has even mentioned it, but my favorite is the Solti recording with Stuart Burrows (a vastly underrated tenor, in my book - check him out as Tamino in Solti's Zauberflote) as the tenor. I don't know off hand when it was recorded, but does it get no love?

No need for embarrasment there. Solti's first LvB 9 is a very good recording. It is much more preferable to his digital remake from the 80s. In fact, Solti's first Beethoven cycle from the 70s is all quite good, and can be had for a decent price. Solti was quite the Beethovenian. I'm not sure what happened to him in the 80s, but his digital Beethoven cycle remake is nowhere close (interpretively) to his earlier efforts. Of course all IMHO.

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub Sure to get some rebukes -- but I like the Peter Tiboris recording on Bridge. There are no big name soloists, the orchestra is a 2nd rate one from eastern Europe. But it has one thing the others don't: Mahler's reorchestration. I know some purists will have a heart attack, but frankly, Mahler -- one of the greatest orchestrators ever -- did his work to make the symphony sound "better" when played with a large orchestra using modern instruments. Especially in the Scherzo, it works so well. I think Beethoven himself would have used horns in the same way if he had the advantage of valved instruments. I don't like just any tamperings: Stokowski goes too far, even though it is thrilling. If I had to choose a straight 9th, I'd take the Blomstedt, with Dohnanyi/Cleveland on Telarc a fine alternative.

I picked up this recording, and it is really something. Every fan of Beethoven (and Mahler) should hear it. It seems slightly blasphemous to listen to it, but man, is it exciting! Mahler made some significant changes in the first movement (the only one I've analyzed in detail so far, the rest I just ran through); doubling violin parts, adding extra horns and percussion, and even ADDING NEW COUNTERPOINT MATERIAL (no actual measures have been inserted or deleted as far I can tell from my cursory listen). It really sounds different in parts (if you are super-familiar with the work as I have become over the years), but the ultimate effect is a "beefed-up" B9. If you didn't know better, you would think you were listening to the freshest, most intense and powerful interpretation of the work that you'd ever heard - maybe as the result of a new miking approach that brings out voices you've never heard. The truth is that they weren't there before. Too bad this recording is by a tier 2 (or 3) symphony - it'd be fun to hear the VPO go all-out on this! Was this unethical on Mahler's part? By today's standards (and likely standards of Mahler's day), absolutely - no question about it. (What would Mahler fans say of someone did this to his stuff?) But damn, he did a good job - this is really fun to listen to!

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis I picked up this recording, and it is really something. Every fan of Beethoven (and Mahler) should hear it. It seems slightly blasphemous to listen to it, but man, is it exciting! Mahler made some significant changes in the first movement (the only one I've analyzed in detail so far, the rest I just ran through); doubling violin parts, adding extra horns and percussion, and even ADDING NEW COUNTERPOINT MATERIAL (no actual measures have been inserted or deleted as far I can tell from my cursory listen). It really sounds different in parts (if you are super-familiar with the work as I have become over the years), but the ultimate effect is a "beefed-up" B9. If you didn't know better, you would think you were listening to the freshest, most intense and powerful interpretation of the work that you'd ever heard - maybe as the result of a new miking approach that brings out voices you've never heard. The truth is that they weren't there before. Too bad this recording is by a tier 2 (or 3) symphony - it'd be fun to hear the VPO go all-out on this! Was this unethical on Mahler's part? By today's standards (and likely standards of Mahler's day), absolutely - no question about it. (What would Mahler fans say of someone did this to his stuff?) But damn, he did a good job - this is really fun to listen to!

If you like that, you should try to get Mahler's rewrites of Bruckner and Bach. I don't really care for them, imo Mahler was letting his ego get in the way of his common sense. As a matter of fact, Mahler's Bach is on Chailly's M3 recording (you can hear it in SACD) and it's really painful to listen to it. It makes Stokowski's Bach seem classic.

By the way, Beethoven was the first composer to specify that his music should be played "as written," even going so far as to write out the cadenzas rather than leaving them for the soloists to improvise. I don't think he would have been very happy with anyone's new material.

 

[saint.panda]

I got the Blomstedt set today and I definately like it. The 9th is really good but the 3rd, 5th and 6th on this set are beautiful, too. I have too little experience with the other Beethoven symphonies but at this price point, I think this is an excellent deal. Thanks again for the recommendation!

 

[Bunnyears]

saint.panda,

I'm glad you are enjoying it!

Bunny

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears By the way, Beethoven was the first composer to specify that his music should be played "as written," even going so far as to write out the cadenzas rather than leaving them for the soloists to improvise. I don't think he would have been very happy with anyone's new material.

No doubt about it.