The Best Beethoven's 9th?
Aug 3, 2005 at 4:21 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 58

Factor

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After much shopping and reading of Classics Today, I picked up the Günter Wand Ninth on Red Seal. (It was between that and the Szell/Cleveland one.) This brings me to a question: what are the best versions of the Ninth?

Or was there already a thread on this recently?

Edit: Listening to the second movement now. Sheeeeeit... I made the right choice. I can tell this is ace without even having another Ninth to compare it to.
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 4:54 AM Post #2 of 58
A common question.

It's hard to say which is the best. However, Furtwangler 1951 Bayrueth Festival at EMI, Bernstein 1990 at DG, Solti 1995 at Decca and Bohm 1981 at DG are my favorite.
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 5:15 AM Post #3 of 58
Well, here is a round up of the versions I have:

Karajan 1963
: Generally viewed to be his best. It certainly has the best sound, recorded in the Jesus-Christus-Kirche, which has a great acoustic. His soloists are (probably) the best assembled for such a recording. Compared to his 1977 release, I find this one very cold. It is not hard to see the smoothness-obsessed Karajan of the '70s and '80s appear in ths recording. However, it is better than many other recordings and is not without its charm.

Karajan 1977: I prefer this one. It was done in the Neue Philharmonie, which has a boomy acoustic. However, the orchestra plays with feeling. His soloists here are almost as good as the '63 crew (Peter Schreier is probably better). This was in the middle of his "smoothness" fetish, but doesn't suffer horribly. Avoid the SACD if possible. It has a veil that the original Galleria CD doesn't, and even the Karajan Collection release sounds better.

Karajan 1984
: The less said the better. This was smack in the middle of Karajan's digitization mania. The orchestra and soloists are a bit less-than-fantastic. The early digital sound is OK, but glassy in an extreme. It's also a bit hard to find in a single release. I bought it to complete my Karajan DG set of 9ths. I don't regret buying it, but it is not my favorite by a long shot. Most reviewers are inclined to dismiss this one as later Karajan trying to increase his catalog.

Furtwangler 1937: The Covent Garden recording is in a bad way. However, there are those who felt that this was Furtwangler's greatest performance of the work. There is a mysticism here that, while constant throughout his recordings, is in full swing. This is the communal Furtwangler 9th of legend. That is apparent even through bad sound. This is as close as we can get to the 9th that made Furtwangler famous.

Furtwangler 1942
: This is the legendary Berlin 9th, recorded live during the war. It is famous for its intensity and drive. The recorded sound is not ideal, but it doesn't matter. The orchestra, chorus, and soloists give it their all. Such intensity should be sampled rarely, lest it lose its edge. The source tapes are clearly overloaded at times, and the recording is - at times - very poorly done. One does not get the impression that it was intended to be archived. Of course, one can never predict performances like this. Who can time perfection?

Furtwangler 1951
: Recorded at the reopening of the de-Nazified Bayreuth Festival in 1951. Probably has the best sound of the lot of Furtwangler 9ths. It is brilliant in its jubilation. This performance is wonderful on so many levels. One sees the mysticism of prewar Furtwangler collide with the intensity of the war. The results are fantastic. One senses that this is as much about Furtwangler as Beethoven. His postwar tribulation is famous. The fact that he, not rival Herbert von Karajan, was called upon to reopen the jewel of German culture was no small vindication for the aging maestro.

Furtwangler 1954: Recorded in Bayreuth, at the opening of the '54 Festival. The sound isn't good. This was recorded a few days before the famous Lucerne performance. It is late Furtwangler. The '51 style has matured, and seems to have become a bit more introspective. Of course, his death was largely a loss of will to live (according to the doctors, he was going to recover from his pneumonia), so there was certainly much introspection during his last months. Very good. It's worth it to have Windgassen singing the 9th.

Gardiner '94: The dean of period Beethoven in Beethoven's masterpiece. Well-sung and well-played. This is a great 9th, period or not. It is blindingly fast, which might be a problem. Gardiner doesn't fool around. The orchestra is in good form and the soloists are in good voice. Through his tempi, Gardiner manages to create and release a tension that I find necessary for the work over the length of the recording. It is a part of his '94 set.

Bernstein '89
: Recorded in 1989, after the fall of the Berlin Wall. It is a multinational conglomerate orchestra. The soloists are alright, and there is a sense of occasion. However, Bernstein adopts plodding tempi. The last movement is almost half an hour long. Compare that to the usual 25 minutes. I don't think he taking more repeats. It just seems slow. That's fine; however, it is dangerous to confuse ponderous tempi with great drama and tension. James Levine found out, at about the same time in his MET Das Rheingold, that being slow does not mean that one is being momentous.



Except for the '84 Karajan release, a case could be made for each that each is the best. I am partial to Furtwangler's '42 or '51 recordings. The '54 is up there, though. As far as I can tell, each cutting has its partisans. It is really up to the person diving in to decide what they want and who comes closest. I cannot think of a 9th without some merit; however, in a work as staggeringly brilliant as this, some merit doesn't cut it.
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 7:17 AM Post #4 of 58
I like Norrington's B9 for Hannsler Classic, Hogwood's with the Academy of Ancient Music (only available in the complete symphonies set from L'Oiseau Lyre-Decca) and also Blomstedt's with the Dresden Staatskapelle (available with complete symphony set from Brilliant Classics). Aside from those three, Bernstein's 9th available with the Missa Solemnis on a DG Doubles is also excellent.

The Blomstedt is probably one of the best sung 9ths around, and the whole cycle is probably one of the best Big Band Beethovens around.

The Furtwangler 9ths are stirring, but you really have to be prepared for some very bad sound quality.
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 11:45 AM Post #5 of 58
My top 5 after long search:

Karajan/DG Galleria 1977 (not the remaster, original Galleria release)
Munch/BSO/Great Conductors 20th Century 1958 (2CD set)
Bernstein/VPO/DG Panorama 1980 (2CD set with Missa Solemnis)
Klemperer/Testament 1957 (live stereo)
Leinsdorf/BSO/RCA Victrola (budget price)


The Karajan and Leinsdorf you can buy for a few dollars each used at Amazon, purchase these today!

Munch and Bernstein sold as mid price 2CD sets new or also can be bought used at Amazon.

The Klemperer is expensive new and in high demand used, but there is good reason for that!


The Wand/RCA 9th you have is pretty good but not exceptional, I have the remastered Wand Beethoven set. It can be surpassed by any of the 5 above (and several others for that matter) There is much discussion of this topic in previous threads, but here is where I am now in my LVB sojourn.

PS....I should have a recent 9th in that list so I will do quick evaluation to find the right one among:
-Abbado/DG 2000
-MacKerras/EMI classics for pleasure
-Norrington/Hanssler, Gardiner/Arkiv, Zinman/Arte Nova
-Other????
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 1:58 PM Post #6 of 58
My vote goes to the Karl Bohm version with the VPO. The analogue one, not the later digital. Gets my vote for both best performance & sound quality.

My runner-up choice would be Charles Mackerras and the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic.

- augustwest
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 2:44 PM Post #7 of 58
Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel
PS....I should have a recent 9th in that list so I will do quick evaluation to find the right one among:
-Abbado/DG 2000
-MacKerras/EMI classics for pleasure
-Norrington/Hanssler, Gardiner/Arkiv, Zinman/Arte Nova
-Other????



DarkAngel,

Watch out for the Zinman. He has some really awful tempos in his 9th -- way too fast! the Norrington tempos seem the closest to what Beethoven intended and it's a very good recording which I much prefer to the Gardiner.
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 2:51 PM Post #8 of 58
As some pretty old recordings (Furtwangler) are being mentioned in this thread does anybody have any opinions about any of the Toscanini recordings?

For what it's worth I think the 1977 Karajan is as good a choice of any for the first Beethoven ninth in a collection. But of course one is never enough!
icon10.gif
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 3:42 PM Post #9 of 58
I found myself in disagreement with what I've heard of every Karajan 9th, simply because my closest connection with the 9th is through A Clockwork Orange and I needed to find one where the beginning of the second movement has the same tempo as the one used there.

I just ordered the '77 Galleria version for about $4 shipped. Hopefully that cures me of this weird preference.

I noticed that one of the Amazon reviews specifically says don't get the Galleria release because it has lopsided balance due to odd spot-miking and the new one fixes that. Here's to hoping I don't agree with this, because spending $4 is cooler than spending $18.
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 4:14 PM Post #10 of 58
Deutsche Grammophon likes spot-miking to this day.

If you want a fast Molto vivace, then I'd recommend one of the HIP readings. They fly through it.
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 4:36 PM Post #11 of 58
Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor
I just ordered the '77 Galleria version for about $4 shipped. Hopefully that cures me of this weird preference.

I noticed that one of the Amazon reviews specifically says don't get the Galleria release because it has lopsided balance due to odd spot-miking and the new one fixes that. Here's to hoping I don't agree with this, because spending $4 is cooler than spending $18.



He may just be repeating something he read somewhere else without actually comparing the two.......remasters are not always improvements over original CD, this is the case here. I actually sold my remastered version, perhaps he bought it from me
tongue.gif


Now playing is MacKerras/RLPO/EMI 9th .......
Unusual feature here is the 9th has 12 tracks so in the 4th movement you can skip around easily.
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 4:48 PM Post #12 of 58
DarkAngel,

If you have it, try comparing that with the Hogwood B9 and the Norrington. That was a really interesting bit of listening for me. Then listen to the zinman and tell me what you think.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 4:54 PM Post #13 of 58
Sure to get some rebukes -- but I like the Peter Tiboris recording on Bridge. There are no big name soloists, the orchestra is a 2nd rate one from eastern Europe. But it has one thing the others don't: Mahler's reorchestration. I know some purists will have a heart attack, but frankly, Mahler -- one of the greatest orchestrators ever -- did his work to make the symphony sound "better" when played with a large orchestra using modern instruments. Especially in the Scherzo, it works so well. I think Beethoven himself would have used horns in the same way if he had the advantage of valved instruments. I don't like just any tamperings: Stokowski goes too far, even though it is thrilling. If I had to choose a straight 9th, I'd take the Blomstedt, with Dohnanyi/Cleveland on Telarc a fine alternative.
 
Aug 3, 2005 at 4:56 PM Post #14 of 58
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears
DarkAngel,
If you have it, try comparing that with the Hogwood B9 and the Norrington. That was a really interesting bit of listening for me. Then listen to the zinman and tell me what you think.
smily_headphones1.gif



I have them all
icon10.gif


Hogwood/Lyre
Norrington/EMI (Virgin)
Norrington/Hanssler
Zinman/Arte Nova
 

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