The Beatles Remasters Review and Discussion Thread

Sep 10, 2009 at 8:07 AM Post #31 of 195
While I certainly respect markl's viewpoint, I'm afraid I can't agree with the spirit of it. The market for music has changed, certainly, but there is still lots of quality out there. In some ways, it seems to me like things are better now than they have been in the past! As a fledgling audiophile, I'm very concerned about the proliferation of poorly-engineered music, but I'm pretty optimistic about the future for the most part. There probably won't ever be another band like the Beatles, but I don't think that's either a good or a bad thing. It's just the way it is.

These remastered classics are a good thing. I'm having a blast listening to Sgt. Pepper.
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Sep 10, 2009 at 9:03 AM Post #33 of 195
First, a confession. Until yesterday I had never listened to The Beatles in mono. (Well, I own the Anthology discs, but I never listened to the mono tracks on there above once or twice.) I never even bought the first four albums on CD because I really like stereo; even early stereo recordings with their "analytic" division of tracks.

Most of yesterday I spent listening to the Mono boxed set on headphones, and right now I'm listening to a playlist of the songs for which I have 1987 stereo versions against their mono equivalents. (Always stereo first, which means that every time I hear the mono version I have to readjust to the acoustic shock of mono.) I believe that this is probably as unsympathetic an environment as one could find for comparing the two (short of repeating the experiment with 2009 stereo remasters). As most listeners will readily agree, mono works best if you listen to it without continually having to readjust from stereo to mono.

So far I'd have to conclude: the mono remasters are, taken as a whole, better than the 1987 stereo versions.

For about the first five seconds of every mono track, my reaction is always to think that the sound of the mono version is narrowed and muted, but that's purely a psychological response while the brain retunes. Generally, within seconds the ear is much happier with mono.

Some specific examples. The start of "All You Need Is Love" is horrible on the 1987 version: with the vocals hard-panned left and a nasty modulation whispering on the right-hand track until the strings enter, the sound is honestly amateur. Once your ear picks out that modulation sibilance it just leaps out for the entire length of the track. True, the strings are clearer and more detailed in stereo, but they are warmer in mono and the horrible tape noise just isn't there. At 24 seconds in on the stereo mix you can hear a studio voice in the right channel; you can't hear it at all in the mono remaster, and this may upset some listeners, but it pretty clearly wasn't "intended" to be heard. So: in the mono version you get the song as it was meant to be heard, with a choir in the background, and on the stereo version you get a small group of singers in the left channel and some horrible tape noise. It's not really a close call.

"Eleanor Rigby" is a clear case where mono should be preferable, because it has that hideous fade of the voice to the right channel on first word of the verse. The strings in stereo come from a point in space roughly centre: they are as mono as they could possibly be and really feel like it in the context of a stereo mix. By contrast, the strings work better in the mono remaster and have more bottom so that the cello sings a bit more. To be honest, I miss the separation here on the voices, but at least Paul stays where he is rather than teleporting into the right channel every now and again.

"A Day In The Life" is another track with pronounced modulation whisper in the right channel: it probably gets cleaned up on the 2009 stereo remaster, but the odd but deliberate panning of John's voice would remain as it is, and having Paul in the right channel for the middle section is peculiar on headphones. In defence of the stereo version, the orchestra sounds great even in the 1987 version. The mono version emphasizes the bass lines beneath the first verse, with Lennon's voice sounding recessed rather than panned. The piano in the first verse (such a feature of the stereo version because it is hard-panned left) is harder to follow in mono; surely indicative of a general blurring of instrumental detail when listening to the mono version. Overall, I'd say that the song was more pleasing in stereo.

Another song where the stereo has for me a slight edge is "Here, There and Everywhere", where the electric guitar chords on the second and fourth notes of the bar sounds unpleasantly emphasized on the mono version. I wonder whether this is a general feature of the 2009 remaster, because I can't see why this one instrumental texture should become suddenly brought into focus in this way. Perhaps someone with the 2009 stereo remaster could comment on that.

"Back in the U.S.S.R." has, for me, always been a good song ruined by the bloody airplane noises panning backwards and forwards all the time. Only in mono do these sounds properly bind to the mix, sounding (as I think that they should) like avant garde electronic musical effects instead of giving the impression that your listening room has been moved to a flightpath.

Obviously I could ramble on & on, but the main impression is that if you want to hear the music, the mono is the better option, and if you want to take apart the mixes (which are, let's be honest, rather fragile) you should probably go for stereo. The songs which really pushed available technology (such as "Strawberry Fields" or "I Am The Walrus") really sound awful if you listen to them carefully on stereo. It can never have been the intention for a tamborine line to have even more prominence than the vocal line, but time and time again in the stereo mix an instrumental line snaps into such focus in the soundfield that it's almost impossible to escape.

When my mono playlist started up on my bedroom system this morning it didn't for a moment sound as though anything was missing in terms of the music, so the loss of stereo separation is not something that is going to cause you as much distress as you might expect. Even on headphones (and this is with the crossfade circuit turned off for stereo listening) I can be listening to a mono track and not be at all conscious that it is in mono until I hear a stereo track for comparison.
 
Sep 10, 2009 at 1:05 PM Post #35 of 195
Quote:

Originally Posted by LingLing1337 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Anyone care to comment on comparison to vinyl versions?


Dunno, my turntable hasn't worked in twenty years. And when it was working it seemed to do best at grinding vinyl into dust.
The Steve Hoffman Forum should have a lot of info. I think the consensus is that LPs are still king, but the remasters are respectable.
Sandy.
 
Sep 10, 2009 at 1:21 PM Post #36 of 195
Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I did not start this thread for people to incessantly wax nostalgic or to wander off into the weeds on subjects that are tangenital to discussing these remasters and the music contained therein. If that is what you want to do then please respect my intentions here and take your off-topic chatter elsewhere.

--Jerome



I was just thinking that the more philosophical posts on this topic were some of the best I've read on H-F. The Beatles were not only music. They were a vehicle of social change.
As with children, threads sometimes don't conform to expectations.
 
Sep 10, 2009 at 1:51 PM Post #38 of 195
Mono vs Stereo

I am reading with great interest the comments comparing these two versions.
I have only owned the stereo versions, but the extreme right/left panning that occurs in some stereo songs has always bothered me even before these new remasters.......I just thought I would have to live with it

Now we have the option of complete mono set, would like to just buy a couple mono albums, but so far that is not an option.

As someone mentioned before you could only have 10-20 songs with worst panning effects in mono for ideal combo set, I guess I could do that by buying the mono set and making custom CDR copy mixing mono/stereo versions of songs. But as Sordel says to constantly switch back & forth between mono/stereo is also annoying

JS
What do you think, are they ever going to release individual mono albums or only available as complete set?

Maybe I just do as before and learn to live with extreme panning stereo versions
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Sep 10, 2009 at 1:51 PM Post #39 of 195
Quote:

Originally Posted by reorx /img/forum/go_quote.gif
But for those with even a moderately mid-fi set up, they will enjoy crisper details, improved bass, snappier drums and cymbals, improved vocals and instrument separation all around.


I guess I was expecting a bit less compression (it all sounds more compressed to me; always a bad thing) and I also expected more noise reduction (hand tuned, of course) and I hear huge amounts of noise that I would not want to release under my name.

I spend a lot of time in photography and there are many parallels; one of which is noise reduction. image noise reduction is quite sophisticated and you can take noisy digicam shots and denoise them without losing detail. I'm pretty sure that audio is at least as good (in tech) if not better; if done by hand (not any one-click method).

yet there is the same amount of noise that I hear in the older beatles recordings.

the stereo imaging was not changed and it should have been.

the marketing of 'not compressed mono' OR the choice of 'compressed and in stereo' was wrong in every way possible. I strongly disagree with this MARKETING decision. they ruined both sets, imo.

I don't recommend this set (either of them) as it seems a pitiful cash grab on the part of big music (yet again).

yes, the songs sound 'louder'. I never find that at all appealing.

I'm not going to comment on album by album or song by song basis. the music is still the same with only very minor changes. I'm a huge beatles fan but I get exactly the same enjoyment from the older records as I do the new ones; the words, instruments and performance was the same. re-selling the same basic music content but with outrageous pricing and strange 'either/or' marketing turned me off from the get-go.

better would be to CLEAN UP unreleased content than to re-re-rehash what we really already have. surely there must be live performances or other out-takes that they could have spent their time with.
 
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:20 PM Post #42 of 195
Great thread so far minus the OT (and exaggerated) wanderings.

Linuxworks, I appreciate your point of view. It sounds like you are not finding the type of improvement that would make this a monumental release that we were all hoping for. How do others feel in this regard?
 
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:56 PM Post #43 of 195
I listened for many hours yesterday, and will continue today.
Even though I 'grew up' on the Beatles because my Dad played it for me all the time, I've never really heard the music like this before. I enjoy both the Mono and Stereo versions - each has its place for sure.

I have a few different DAC's here at the moment, and although I spent the most part of the day critically listening through the 'clearer' sounding DAC, it was ever so slightly more 'rock and roll' through the 'thicker' sounding DAC.

I'll check them out on my RS1i later today. So happy about these discs.
 
Sep 10, 2009 at 4:00 PM Post #45 of 195
It sounds like I'm really going to have to give the mono recordings a shot. I'd heard about how the Beatles favored mono, but I didn't know they were going to remaster the mono versions of their albums as well.

BTW, I completely agree about the stereo CD packaging. I happen to hate digipak sleeves, so I was less-than-thrilled by the design. Give me a jewel case! They're so much easier to store.
 

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