[Ikon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ I'm suprised that you find the DT 880's treble lacking resolution; this contradicts my own experience. Of the mentioned harshness there was only a hint and just the first few hours. After about 100 hours the treble was very clear and smooth, with a resolution (at least almost) comparable to the HD 650, just more of it, and definitely higher than the HD 580's or 600's. Strange indeed. .

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Ditto.

Let me elaborate - it was a late yesterday: The DT880 has clearly more treble resolution than the HD580, but I couldn't get rid of the harshness [at the same time]. I modified my amp to sound warmer by using the AD746 and even went so far as to put polycarbonate input capacitors in the signal way -> which is normally considered not so good, but I find it gives the highs a little warmer character and pronounces the bass a little (I also took those capactors out to check what they do to the HD650 and DT880). The bottomline was: with the warmer amp, the HD580 retains its treble resolution and "just" looses every hint of harshness. The DT880 on the other hand looses quite a bit of its treble (not only resolution) and still retains a hint of harshness -> which is unbearable, because the highs then sound a bit dull and harsh at the same time.

Concerning burn-in: I used the DT880 for a week with constant burn-in at the times when I was not using it. It should have more than 100 hours burn-in.

 

[Ikon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch My good friend, ready yourself... you are about to have the DIAMETRIC OPPOSITE experience tomorrow with the K501!

The K501 arrived 15 minutes ago

I have to say that it leaves a very positive first impression. The K501 has a larger and more airy soundstage, which might be because of the larger and lighter (less-claustrophobic) ear-cups. The treble is in the same class as the HD580's, and the midrange has a very musical, liquid character which is very pleasant. The bass is ... not so much there. But as I was playing around with the equalizer yesterday, I just boosted the bass a little and it rised and shines now

But these are just the first 5-minute impressions, let's see how the K501 compares to the HD580/HD650/DT880 after some burn-in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Ditto. Starting to wonder what kind of music Ikon is listening to (unfortunately, his musical preferences aren't listed in his profile).

That's because there aren't many genres which I don't listen to. It's mostly classic, pop, electronica and rock - and I also watch DVDs with this thing.

I have also a preference in tonal balance: I'm a sucker for warm and detailed treble and I don't need much bass to be happy. I like the bass to be there and to be tight, but I don't need a constant boom-boom to remind me of the bass' existence. Which could very possibly an explanation for my dislike of the HD650.

 

[Andrea]

I guess it's the DT880's lower treble spike(s) you're getting bothered by. Changes in the amp won't solve that. Perhaps going drastic, i.e. tubes...


As regards the HD650, I'd just like to remind that the bass goes quite a bit lower than the HD580's by means of mere improved extension, thus is bound to show the possibly "cooked up bass" of a record much more obviously.

 

[cheechoz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid sorry to be "that guy" but hd-650 need a powerfull amp to keep the bass under control and maintain instrument seperation. no complaints here either, so far for me the weeknesses have been upstream related. (and foam related too)

Your absolutely right! A powerful amp will make the 650 sing praises.

 

[brat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikon I'm currently auditioning several headphones to choose a partner for my HD580 from. I've successfully ruled out the DT880 (not enough treble resolution for my taste, also a little harsh) and have now arrived at the mighty HD650. Now that is one strange phone. The first impression was: tons of bass + no treble. After some burn-in, the treble has cleared up quite a bit, though it is certainly not as open as the HD580s' (looks like the HD650 has a warmer character). But there is still the bass. With many songs, it is just "very present" but at least it ... behaves itself. But beware if a song goes to low, then something really ugly happens. The bass gets overpowering, swallowing up everything else, even forcing me to turn down the volume. Not only is it overpowering in that region, it is also sloppy and ... uncontrolled. The HD580 has a much less dominant/present bass - it never gets in the way as the HD650's. The HD580's bass really shows itself in exactly the same places where the HD650's gets ugly, but there it sounds deep and TIGHT and still not overpowering (which is funny as the HD580 are often accused of not having real bass). The HD650 actually manages to sound fatiguing through its constant bass assault, something I have never heard before in headphone land. The only way I knew listening fatigue until now was through too harsh highs or a too small soundstage (-> "in the face" sound). I'm convinced that the HD650 overall detail level is on par or even a bit above the HD580, but I simply cannot listen to it! To experience all the treble and midrange detail, I would have to turn up the volume to a level where the bass has my eardrums bleeding. It's like trying to enjoy an opera with FAT ALBERT running in circles between me and the stage, yelling "hey, hey hey" all the time!! Re-reading this post after typing it, makes me think it sounds like a rant. It was not intended that way, I just wanted to express my impressions about the HD650's bass. But I guess, subconciously, I'm a bit dissapointed of Sennheiser for releasing such an unbalanced and "popular sounding" phone as its top of the line model. It seems that I like the HD580 (plus a little equalization, perhaps) more than the HD650 - who would have thought that The HD650 are loveable - but mine are most likely going back. Tomorrow, the K501 should arrive and I'm thrilled how they'll sound.

You should try another amp man. The 650s are perfect neutral and linear cans if you have the appropriate amp. Build your system around your cans not the amp and you'll be satisfied.

 

[Anders]

The HD650 and other good headphones are sensitive to the signal you feed them with. I have both very good and not so good experiences of the bass with HD650. In my home rig with Corda Prehead and a very good CDP, bass is strong and tight. At another place with a relatively cheap CDP and probably also bad quality of AC power, bass was kind of floating around. The amplifier is important but it can also be a good idea to try with another source. It is also possible that your problems with harshness has something to do with the source. Good headphones and headphone amplifiers are very revealing.

 

[brat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders The amplifier is important but it can also be a good idea to try with another source. It is also possible that your problems with harshness has something to do with the source. Good headphones and headphone amplifiers are very revealing.

I absolutely agree with this. My heavily modded Denon DCD-685 changed it's sound mainly in the low frequencies. The jitter reduction made the bass more fast, tight, clear and natural. The significance of the source is underestimated by the headfiers.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brat The 650s are perfect neutral and linear cans if you have the appropriate amp.

They would only be perfectly neutral and linear with a non-neutral and non-linear amp, if that's what you mean by "appropriate". But you could mix and match anything and say that. You could also EQ anything to be linear. Unfortunately, the phone's still bottom heavy in absolute terms.

 

[Ikon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle They would only be perfectly neutral and linear with a non-neutral and non-linear amp, if that's what you mean by "appropriate". But you could mix and match anything and say that. You could also EQ anything to be linear. Unfortunately, the phone's still bottom heavy in absolute terms.

My point exacty.
If I plug the HD650 in a completely unappropriate source like my portable CD player, they sound relatively balanced. But they only do so because the poor thing is much too weak to power the HD650.

 

[Rhydon]

I found the HD650's to be very thick and warm in the lower midbass regions. I had the same feeling as the original poster in this thread, that midbass seemed to be undefined and bloated.

I know people say, you need 300000000 or so hours to make these things sing. Whatever. Even going down to BBR, you can listen to their well-broken-in pair of HD650's. They also exhibit this same signature compared to the HD600. I prefer the HD600's signature as it sounds more linear in its balance of midbass, bass, and midrange.


Rhydon

 

[slwiser]

the ATH-A900LTD as a phone with nice base and good everything else.

Just a thought...for you.

 

[kestrel4]

I found myself using my HD600 more than my HD650 because I found the HD650's bass too boomy (is that a word?). But when I rolled in Amperex tubes into my Woo3 and took out Siemens tubes, the bass tightens considerably. I did a double take to make sure I had the HD650 plugged in and not the HD600. The change was that dramatic.

It seems the HD650's sound depends a lot on the other parts of the audio setup. I'm very happy with them now.

!thanks
Oh, I wish I'd read that before!
My HD-650 phones arrived two days ago and I love them except for one thing I've started to notice; the boomy base. When it occurs, it's like a resonance at very low Hz. I hear it not just in music but at times in the background from a presenter's studio in high-quality radio broadcasts.
Now, I admit that I am using a standard Dell USB to Audio-jack converter (and cheap Douk U3 amp which is not really necessary).
I am very reluctant to spend more money speculatively - it took me weeks to persuade myself to buy the headphones - so I am hoping to read some budget solution to this.

 

[drummerman1]

Just EQ it if you can and stick with it. I have a 58X and it responds wonderfully to it. I would assume your 650 is no different.

 

[jbarrentine]

I've always complained they piss bass on everything. It's the only 6 series I have actively disliked. The 600 is a completely different and much better headphone. Siblings in graph only.

 

[MattTCG]

First, why did someone drum up this almost 20 year old thread. Ask your question in the "current" 650/6xx thread, maybe? What I find hilarious is that of the droves of people who own and love the 650, the one thing they complain about is lack of bass. Which is actually true. The 650 doesn't have much sub bass, they have a mid bass bump.

At the end of the day it's all relative to what else you own and your preferences. Some people might say that the original hd800 has too much bass and is fatiguing because of it. That won't make it the case for MOST people even though it might be true for you.