[DavidA]

  i'm saying this because i have been through where you are right now,  and it's going to piss people off - but whatever: tubes are obsolete, which is why they aren't common now, not because "engineers these days are stupid" - and a lot of that nos stuff marketed is complete snail oil. I'm not a huge fan of schiit, but even their top tube amps are designed more with solid state in mind with a neutral sound... if you want that vintage tube experience do this:
 
use your o2odac + 650hd
 
use this eq
 

 
 
then buy this and put it on your desk:
 
http://www.amazon.com/Changing-Childrens-Wireless-Lighting-Power/dp/B00NUHNLBU/ref=sr_1_8_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1461291553&sr=8-8&keywords=touch+light+orb

Tubes are still very common, and new ones are still be produced.  That EQ curve would make anything sound like 

there is no upper mids and no highs.  I've heard tube amps that are brighter sounding than some SS amps so your EQ curve for the O2 and K7XX would be really bad sounding, IMO, and not anything I would consider as sounding like a vintage tube amp.

 

[kman1211]

   
Actually you got it backwards - these days higher end tube amps are for the most part designed to sound neutral - almost indistinguishable from an o2 minus the fancy glow depending how good you are at lying to yourself. Sorry, but I'm just severely allergic to BS and I gotta call a spade a spade, especially when I see somebody asking those kinds of questions. But it's all good, headfi needs its sponsors, I just felt bad for Darien because looking at his other posts he seems highly impressionable, and I didn't want to see him throw his money away.

How do I have it backwards? I have no idea how you even came to that conclusion based on what I said. I was calling you out on the BS EQ curve, only a very poorly designed amp would have a curve like that. I was just saying tube amps are still very common, which is true. I personally dislike it that people push tubes as being warm, when it's not true in regards to modern tube amps.

 

[Darien]

Should I get the vali 2 then? I don't know what otl is but I don't see it in the schiit website so I'm guessing it's not otl. Also according to schiit logic their stuff is better than the other stuff our there that costs 6 times the price, so the vali 2 should easily be the best tube amo under a thousand xD (lol jk)

But SRS, idk what otl is, I googled it and read a bunch of articles, but I still don't know what otl is.. But I guess I don't want the otl?

I like the idea of vali 2 cus I don't want to spend a ton of Money on something that I don't notice a difference with again, and I like the idea of having one tube to worry about rather than like 50.

Would the vali 2 give me that vintage sound since it's not olt? What tube should I use with it?

 

[MtnMan307]

I just replied to you on the DarkVoice thread a little bit ago.  
 
I really like the Amperex Orange Label with Vali 2.  Hunt for one on eBay and should be able to get under $25 no prob.  

 

[kman1211]

Should I get the vali 2 then? I don't know what otl is but I don't see it in the schiit website so I'm guessing it's not otl. Also according to schiit logic their stuff is better than the other stuff our there that costs 6 times the price, so the vali 2 should easily be the best tube amo under a thousand xD (lol jk)

But SRS, idk what otl is, I googled it and read a bunch of articles, but I still don't know what otl is.. But I guess I don't want the otl?

Would the vali 2 give me that vintage sound since it's not olt? What tube should I use with it?

Yes, I would suggest the Vali 2. OTLs are better suited for higher-ohm headphones usually, especially in the lower price ranges. Output Transformer-less is just a type of design used in tube amps, the design is best suited for higher impedance headphones.
 
The Vali 2 will have a bit of the tube roundness to their sound but will have a similar tuning to any neutral amp with a slightly different presentation. If it's anything like the Lyr 2 I had, it's going to have a solid low-end and quite a spacious sound with quite smooth treble.

 

[DavidA]

Should I get the vali 2 then? I don't know what otl is but I don't see it in the schiit website so I'm guessing it's not otl. Also according to schiit logic their stuff is better than the other stuff our there that costs 6 times the price, so the vali 2 should easily be the best tube amo under a thousand xD (lol jk)

But SRS, idk what otl is, I googled it and read a bunch of articles, but I still don't know what otl is.. But I guess I don't want the otl?

I like the idea of vali 2 cus I don't want to spend a ton of Money on something that I don't notice a difference with again, and I like the idea of having one tube to worry about rather than like 50.

Would the vali 2 give me that vintage sound since it's not olt? What tube should I use with it?

OTL= Output Transformer Less, its a type of design for tube amps
 
Follow this link for better info: http://www.audiodesignguide.com/otl/otl.html
 
As for what tube you should get. I would listen to the amp for a short period and if there is something you don't like about it then ask again for recommended tubes

 

[Darien]

Yes, I would suggest the Vali 2. OTLs are better suited for higher-ohm headphones usually, especially in the lower price ranges. 

The Vali 2 will have a bit of the tube roundness to their sound but should actually have a similar tuning to any neutral amp with a slightly different presentation. If it's anything like the Lyr 2 I had, it's going to have a solid low-end and quite a spacious sound with quite smooth treble.

Right on thanks. I prefer a warm sound, and the 650hd is warm but its extrwmely yncomfortable for me so that's why I got the k7xx, but seems all other warm cans under 500, k7xx, ma900...that's it?... Are low impedance... And even more expensive cans like the nighthawk are low impedance too...so I guess unless you got a high impedance Beyer or akg it's better to get non otl?


I'll get the vali 2 and get the warmest sounding tube I can find and enjoy the vintage sound on my k7xx and my studio monitors since the vali 2 has a line out too

Thanks everyone for the information!

 

[Alexandrus]

Why go for an expensive amp when these days there are plenty of really good cheap ones ?
I mean, you can try some cheap ones first, they are mostly under 100 USD. Google SMSL sAp ii Pro and SMSL sAp 8, VMV VA2. The VA is on Massdrop I think as well.

 

[MtnMan307]

Because he wants to spend a little more and get something he really wants?

 

[Darien]

Why go for an expensive amp when these days there are plenty of really good cheap ones ?
I mean, you can try some cheap ones first, they are mostly under 100 USD. Google SMSL sAp ii Pro and SMSL sAp 8, VMV VA2. The VA is on Massdrop I think as well.

well I got an o2odac, in just looking for a tube headphone amp for a more vintage sound...and my speakers are powered monitors , I only mentioned them because the vali 2 has a line out that can warm up the sound of the powered monitors too.

 

[kman1211]

Right on thanks. I prefer a warm sound, and the 650hd is warm but it hurts me so that's why I got the k7xx, but seems all other warm cans under 500, k7xx, ma900...that's it?... Are low impedance... And even more expensive cans like the nighthawk are low impedance too...so I guess unless you got a Beyer or akg it's better to get non otl?

The Beyer DT 150 is another and is 250 ohms, but comfort concerns about it is why I never mentioned it. Most warmer headphones do seem to have lower impedance. There are quite a few warm headphones, but many cheaper ones often have refinement issues. Generally, hybrid amps are a good way to go. Honestly the MA900 isn't really all that warm and it doesn't really scale up at all. The K7XX is more neutralish but scales very nicely with better gear. First see how the K7XX sounds to you on your current system before jumping to get any amps. 

 

[Alexandrus]

  Because he wants to spend a little more and get something he really wants?

Well, if that were the case, he wouldn't have asked here, meaning he does not know what he wants, or at least that's what I understood.
 
Darien, now I understand, I simply did not get the point of the discussion, especially on the K7XX thread.

 

[MtnMan307]

Could still be true, although I thought he was convinced on the Vali 2. 

 

[Darien]

NP I'm still learning with each post lol, just learned the difference between otl and hyrbid amps...kinda lol

 

[MtnMan307]

OTL stands for Output Transformer Less.  Usually refers to an all-tube design like the Schiit Valhalla 2 and many others that use only tubes for amplification.  They have a higher output impedance than other amps do and also put out more power into higher impedance cans, so they're usually made for those types of headphones.
 
Hybrid of course, means it uses both one or more tubes along with solid state parts for amplification.  Kinda like a hybrid car uses both a gas engine and an electric motor.  Hybrid amps usually have a low output impedance and play well with low impedance headphones.  Vali 2 does very well with the M50x and Shure SE-215, but those don't sound as good as the K7XX so they're my portable pairs.