With all due respect, chicolom has all those things covered and he has already compared AKG's flagships in the past. I would put a vote in for MLE, also, but he doesn't have the Annie (nor angled pads) in his possession. And while I agree with td that the Q701 w/memory pads sounds 99% identical to the Annie, I think the readers would want a direct comparison to the stock Annie.
Just my two cents... which are worth $37 and change...
Edit: Plus, if the K712 is different than the Annie, he can then compare it to the X1 just for good measure...
Secondly, your second choice is a guy who doesn't have the stuff that needs compared in his possession. Okay, I think that lack of any logic disqualifies you from the voting.....
Originally Posted by Change is Good /img/forum/go_quote.gif
With all due respect, chicolom has all those things covered and he has already compared AKG's flagships in the past. I would put a vote in for MLE, also, but he doesn't have the Annie (nor angled pads) in his possession. And while I agree with td that the Q701 w/memory pads sounds 99% identical to the Annie, I think the readers would want a direct comparison to the stock Annie.
Just my two cents... which are worth $37 and change...
Edit: Plus, if the K712 is different than the Annie, he can then compare it to the X1 just for good measure...
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
First off, who asked you?
Secondly, your second choice is a guy who doesn't have the stuff that needs compared in his possession. Okay, I think that lack of any logic disqualifies you from the voting.....
First off, it's a community and we are all entitled to give our suggestions.
Second, pay attention to the italic print in my post. Sounds like somebody had their cheerios crapped in, this morning...
Edit: I could have put a vote in for myself just as you did. I, too, have all the "stuff" one needs for these comparisons. I, however, would rather use my vote on a more reputable member... one who has already opened prior threads comparing AKG's flagships (as I have already mentioned but you failed to read that part). I think that gives me logic enough... and would slightly disagree about yours... (based on your reaction just now)
Secondly, your second choice is a guy who doesn't have the stuff that needs compared in his possession. Okay, I think that lack of any logic disqualifies you from the voting.....
LOL. I vote for the guy who has been here for years and has lots of experience...rather than for the guy who just joined and seems to have an attitude problem.
Hell, you don't even have much feedback - I would not even send you a cheap pair of IEMs for review, let alone a brand new pair of $500 headphones.
Ya'll need to learn to not take everything so seriously around here.
My big grin emoticon on my post about "it probably should be me" was to say it wasn't meant to be too serious.
Also, you really shouldn't judge some one based on their post count or how long they have been on this board, it really means nothing as far as real word experience goes.
Just for the record I have been in the audio business for 25 years and sold some of the best names in high end audio, i have also worked for a handful of manufacturers in my time as well.
That being said you'd never get a review from me saying how each of the headphones do for gaming and I'll never tell you how they sound streaming music off of YouTube or Pandora.
Chicolom has agreed to put his time and effort into sorting this out for us. The 712s shipped today so I'll have them Tuesday, then they will be sent to him for a full review/comparison by someone way more qualified than me! Thanks Chicolom. Should be interesting.
Full review video from Headroom was posted yesterday. I had a different experience from headphone samurai. IMO, K712 pro is more than just improved bass response from K702. I consider the two to be for different audiences. That's why the K702 is still around and not replaced by K712 pro. My review is coming... sorry for the delay. Been busy with my day job, other projects and I want to get this one right.
Full review video from Headroom was posted yesterday. I had a different experience from headphone samurai. IMO, K712 pro is more than just improved bass response from K702. I consider the two to be for different audiences. That's why the K702 is still around and not replaced by K712 pro. My review is coming... sorry for the delay. Been busy with my day job, other projects and I want to get this one right.
Great, sounds like more reviews for the K712 are finally surfacing! So back to vineland's impressions for a bit. After seeing how different his comments were about the K702.65 compared to our opinions here, especially concerning its bass, it got me wondering how AKG themselves wanted their customers to think. Now that the official webpage for the K702.65 is 404, I think we'll have to settle with the product description on the K702.65 packaging, which is almost the same text as that found on a few online retailers' product pages that are still up online. I'll copy paste that here for posterity's sake in case all these pages start disappearing.
* Limited Edition hand-crafted in Vienna, Austria with highest attention to detail
* New soft genuine leather headband for maximum wearing comfort
* Revolutionary flat wire voice coil for incredible impulse and treble response
* Sophisticated open technology for spacious and airy sound without compromise
* Lightweight and comfortable for long listening / recording sessions
* Patented Varimotion™ two-layer diaphragm for improved high frequency range and better performance at low frequencies
* Detachable professional cable for easy replacement
* Pre-selected transducers for performance consistency and accurate localization
* Individually tested and numbered for delivering the best quality
Perhaps due to some marketing miscoordination, some other online retailers list a slightly different set of features that mention improved bass response (ie. http://www.head-fi.org/t/648954/new-akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition-headphones-limited-edition / http://www.moon-audio.com/headphones/akg-headphones/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition.html).
* Limited Edition hand-crafted in Vienna, Austria with highest attention to detail
* New sound tuning for improved performance at low frequencies
* New soft genuine leather headband for maximum wearing comfort
* New soft velours ear pads for long listening / recording sessions
* Attractive design with high-quality "TITAN-Look" finish
* Revolutionary flat wire voice coil for incredible impulse and treble response
* Patented Varimotion two-layer diaphragm for improved high frequency range and better performance at low frequencies
* Detachable professional cable for easy replacement
A bit of googling turned up the cutsheet pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49755/AKG/K702_Anniversary_Cutsheet.pdf) still downloadable from AKG's site. Nowhere in AKG's official documents about the K702.65 do I find mention of improved bass response. In fact that list of features on the packaging is essentially what you see on the K702 page on akg.com right now. All I can say is that AKG is guilty of inconsistency so I guess nothing is to be gained from following this lead, except for the fact that maybe AKG is trying to finally say with that K702 page that K702.65 = K702 (but with different pads of course because that much is obvious, though somehow not important enough to mention...). However, I hardly think they would misrepresent their products and the absence of a clear statement about a measured bass improvement should be noted. AKG should just release hard measurement data for their lineup.
And so I tried to approach this from that direction. I've compiled all the factual data that is available at the moment for your perusal. I do have to say we at least shouldn't discount his K712 impressions. Right now, concrete knowledge we can go on are the HeadRoom graphs (alas no K702.65 curves or CSD plots), which dockweiler posted earlier and which I'm surprised have been dismissed so far, and the AKG service manuals:
As others have pointed out already, the first thing to establish here is that the K702/Q701/K702.65 all have the same capsule, with part number 2400Z00080. There seems to have been no clarification about the term "capsule" previously so I'll do that here. Briefly, from wiki, modern moving-coil headphone drivers are derived from microphone capsule technology, where capsule refers to the transducer element that converts a signal in one form of energy to another form of energy. Considering AKG had its start in developing microphones, them calling headphone drivers "capsules" is probably just a legacy naming scheme. I think it's safe to say capsule = driver for AKG headphones (has anyone emailed AKG about this?). The big mystery to me is how AKG achieved Q701's frequency response with the same K702 drivers. Most likely there has been an incremental change in the diaphragm because I don't see a change in their electrical characteristics, though I would've expected a change of part number if that's the case. Anyways, I wonder if there has been a rolling change to the K702 and it'd be interesting to see how a K702 off the latest production run with the flat headbands (or even one purchased after the release of the Q701) measures and if it sounds the same as the Q701, but that's too much unhealthy speculation. Back to what we actually have. Based on chicolom's comparison between the Q701/K702.65, I'd expect the K702.65 to have basically the same FR curve as the Q701 if the same pads are used. Then possibly, the new pads didn't have the same effect for vineland as for you guys, which I think is reasonable if the Q701/K702.65 base frequency response is the same. Thus the new capsule/driver in the K712, with part number 2400Z00090. Couple that with the explicit blurb about the K712 having a 3dB low-end performance improvement corroborated by the FR graph @ ~100Hz, I'm sure further reviews will confirm at least in general what vineland said about the K712 vs x70x.
Full review video from Headroom was posted yesterday. I had a different experience from headphone samurai. IMO, K712 pro is more than just improved bass response from K702.
I take it this is the full review?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRL8mj24a8
I consider ~2 minutes on the short side for a "full review". I would call that some early "impressions" personally. He did mention that the K712 has more bass and that the K701 has more forward mids and is airier. That same description could be applied to the the Anniversary though, so it doesn't move us much closer towards an answer on whether the Anniversary and K712 differ. I appreciate the video though.
I think it's safe to say capsule = driver for AKG headphones (has anyone emailed AKG about this?).
Yes, I believe AKG confirmed that capsule = driver in an email correspondence with someone earlier in the thread.
Anyways, I wonder if there has been a rolling change to the K702 and it'd be interesting to see how a K702 off the latest production run with the flat headbands (or even one purchased after the release of the Q701) measures and if it sounds the same as the Q701
I can't speak for the new flat headband K702 models, but the K702 I used in this comparison was bought after the Q701s had already been out for a good while. So at that time no rolling changes had occured.Maybe the Q701 and K702 sound the same now, or maybe they're still different. I don't think we know...
Based on chicolom's comparison between the Q701/K702.65, I'd expect the K702.65 to have basically the same FR curve as the Q701 if the same pads are used.
I would expect that too.
So it sounds like the speculation on the K712 is that the underlying frequency curve is different from every other x70x, and that regardless of pads the K712 still has stronger bass than the K701/K702/Q701/Anniversary.Assuming that were true, it would clarify why AKG is now officially boasting a +3dB bass improvement, when they (for the most part) didn't mention it with the Anniversary.
The other possibility (and the original theory that makes logical sense to many of us here) is that the +3dB bass improvement is the same one that the Anniversary has, which is brought about by the memory foam pads, and that the K712 and Anniversary are essentially identical sounding headphones - meaning the K712 is a recolored production-version of the Anniversary.
If people can't hear the obvious boost in bass between a standard K70x and the 65, its time to get those ears checked. This is why there needs to be some various comparisons between the K712 and 65th, instead of hearsay. No Q701 w/65 pads or whatnot. Just straight 65 vs 712.
If people can't hear the obvious boost in bass between a standard K70x and the 65, its time to get those ears checked. This is why there needs to be some various comparisons between the K712 and 65th, instead of hearsay. No Q701 w/65 pads or whatnot. Just straight 65 vs 712.
Absolutely, that being said, if the graphs from Head Room are right I am anxious to see what the stock angled pad sounds like on the K712. I wonder why Head Room never measured the Annie's? Hopefully I can order my K712 in the next few weeks....
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