[491838]

Balanced does not improve sound quality in headphones. That's just a myth.

Until you learn the ways by which your brain can trick you into hearing things you can't really make bold claims like that unless you directly A\B test. The only reason why you'd be against that is if you just want to believe crap. I know that feeling but then I would also like to spend less money on gear though $550 is not a bad price. I'd still probably invest in the Audio-gd NFB-1AMP (8W into 32 ohms, 0.004% THD) and a separate DAC.

 

[swagadelic]

balanced does improve quality, it is NOT a myth my friend. imagine it like this.

unbalanced: half a signal in each ear. balanced: a full signal in each ear.
its only a myth until you try it out for yourself. then its no longer a myth, but a truth.
the fact that you say its a myth makes me a little sad, because it shows you have only begun on your journey of headphone audio.

edit: my apologies if that sounded a bit harsh. i dont mean any disrespect or to be rude. so if you dont agree, thats fine. let us still be friends.
but i stil dont agree with your hypothesis on your A/B test methods. i am fundamentally disagreeing with you there.
and i am also fundamentally disagreeing with you on the balanced/unbalanced issue but its two seperate things altogether. and i take offence that you claim i am a sucker for snake oil since i dont follow your paradigm.

i have listened to a pair of modded HD600 to be fully balanced compared to a pair that is not balanced on the same amp. there is such a difference my grandmother could tell.
the output on that amp was also modded to be fully balanced of course, so the chain of audio was balanced from the first signal to the very last.
but even still, if you have only balanced up until the headphone out - there will still be a difference in soundstage and "power" or "drive". the sound is fuller and louder compared to the unbalnaced pair.
simply because of "dual mono" meaning the signal is virtually twice as loud in each ear than on stereo.

 

[Lushy Brushy]

try the Pro-Ject HeadBox if you can. Or rather, dont. Because you will never be able to appreciate your K712 ever again, without getting that piece of equipment.
If ever something brings life to the k712 its that one. Get it if your wallet can afford it. Im going to save up for it myself. I was BLOWN AWAY by the sound it produced.

Oh, so is this one: Pro-Ject Head Box S2 Digital Headphone amplifier? It's only $AUD439, my R2R was more expensive, but I don't know if I should buy an amp to pair with every headphone I have, I also wanted a tube amp like the darkvoice so would I be better off keeping that money and buying better headphones though? I can't have 3+ DAC AMP, it's just not practical. Unless I make a 'stack' with the R2R as a DAC and the Pro-Ject Head Box as an AMP, that would justify it, plus I've been wanting a more clean sounding amp. Oh this audio thing drains you wallet. The darkvoice is also cheaper and I already have a dac,help. Plus then there's the cable upgrade this and upgrade that where's the end of the rainbow.

[EDIT] Only $AUD296 plus $12 shipping($US220 equivalent), why do you plant seeds in my head! It's also made in Austria where the K712s originally came from (mine is Slovakian!) arghhh. Get this and ditch tube amps? This seems like a steal the way you describe the amp, but I just want more musicality from the K712s, an the R2R is already a musical dac/amp, does it not make justice to the full potential to the K712s?

 

[swagadelic]

there is no end in sight if you have a small wallet.

just the headphones, amp, cable and dac will run you about 10.000 dollars if youre peculiar about your sound.
you can probably get close enough though, for about 1000. thats including phones, dac, amp and cables.

for the k712 id STRONGLY recommend the HeadBox, fully silver cables, modded to be Balanced, and whatever Dac you have lying around


btw if something is snake oil its tube amps. They are garbage until you get to about the 1000 dollar price point, then they start to be worth it.
the project headbox might run you 550 euro but i would look at you very funny if you at any point wanted an upgrade from that. thats to me, the end game in head phone amps.

sure, if youre a millionare why not go crazy. but for an end consumer, the ProJect HeadBox is about as good as it gets within fairly reasonable terms. I cannot justify paying anymore for marginal differences. and the difference between a cheap 200 dollar tube amp and the HeadBox is IMMENSE.


edit: where do you find the headbox for 220 dollars?? or did i misunderstand you.

 

[Lushy Brushy]

edit: where do you find the headbox for 220 dollars?? or did i misunderstand you.

Here in Australia Ebay, prices are all over the place, the fidelios X2 cost around $aud560, the head box s2 is $293 aud with discount code, currency conversion to $212 us, plus 12 aud shipping around $220-230 us. It is $600 aud in one of the most well known Australian sites, minidisc. Makes me want to pull the trigger instantly seeing the price differences.

 

[swagadelic]

buy it, and ill buy it from you if youre not happy with it. but thats silly. youre never gonna wanna let go of it

to me thats crazy that its less expensive than the fidelio x2. in my country its double the price of the fidelio x2.
the fidelio x2 btw is pretty much the perfect budget hifi headphone. you wont get much better than that for your smartphone or your computer.
(for casual listening)
i strongly recommend it.

but is it better than the k712? heck no. is it better than the k712 for portable use? omg yes. does it need a dac? no. does it need a headphone amp? not really.
so for the average user, is it better? yes. it is.
if you have more money to spend, do audio production and / or want reference grade sound - willing to spend money on a GOOD amp (meaning, the headphones actually cost not 200 euro but kind of closer to 600 euro because they REQUIRE an excellent amp) they are superior.

but for the average joe, id strongly recommend the fidelio x2 over the k712 just because they are SO MUCH LESS of a hassle. but i wouldnt switch them. i just feel bad that i need the HeadBox for 550 to bring life to the k712. i feel a bit cheated in a way.

 

[Lushy Brushy]

buy it, and ill buy it from you if youre not happy with it. but thats silly. youre never gonna wanna let go of it

to me thats crazy that its less expensive than the fidelio x2. in my country its double the price of the fidelio x2.

Yes,sometimes is a curse and a blessing. Things are more special (overpriced) in Australia because it's an island in the middle of nowhere

 

[swagadelic]

Yes,sometimes is a curse and a blessing. Things are more special (overpriced) in Australia because it's an island in the middle of nowhere

yeah but really though, ill buy it from you if youre not happy with it. as long as you pay shipping XD

 

[Lushy Brushy]

there is no end in sight if you have a small wallet.

just the headphones, amp, cable and dac will run you about 10.000 dollars if youre peculiar about your sound.
you can probably get close enough though, for about 1000. thats including phones, dac, amp and cables.

for the k712 id STRONGLY recommend the HeadBox, fully silver cables, modded to be Balanced, and whatever Dac you have lying around.

The Head box has an ES9038 dual dac, while the nfb 11.28 has a ES9028pro, I also found this The ES9028Pro is supposed to be an ES9018S with an updated digital core, while the ES9038Pro is supposed to be an ES9028Pro with 4 times the output stages, resulting in an extreme output current capability, so it would make sense that it powers the k712 drivers. I'll bite the bullet, there goes my weekly savings.

 

[swagadelic]

to my understanding the HeadBox does NOT have a DAC at all. it it is simply an amp.
maybe i am wrong but im fairly sure its just an amp.

 

[Lushy Brushy]

to my understanding the HeadBox does NOT have a DAC at all. it it is simply an amp.
maybe i am wrong but im fairly sure its just an amp.

I'm pretty sure the s2 line does, I am looking at this specific one: https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Head-Digital-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B073WDC2WM, or were you referring to a different one.Let me know, but regarding this one: "The Head Box S2 Digital takes the advanced digital design of the DAC Box S2+ but adds headphone support to the outputs for added convenience.The sound can then be tailored to suit any listener's preference thanks to the other four digital filters included with the ESS Sabre ESS9038Pro DAC chip"

But it's powered via 5V micro usb, which doesn't make sense to me, also it has 68 mW /30 Ohm, 6.6 mW / 600 Ohm. All specifications here: https://www.project-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/HeadBoxS2Digital-EN.pdf

Am I really confused? because the NFB 11.28 says 3500mW/25 ohm while the S2 says 68mW/ 32 ohm ._.

 

[skingg]

Oh, so is this one: Pro-Ject Head Box S2 Digital Headphone amplifier? It's only $AUD439, my R2R was more expensive, but I don't know if I should buy an amp to pair with every headphone I have, I also wanted a tube amp like the darkvoice so would I be better off keeping that money and buying better headphones though? I can't have 3+ DAC AMP, it's just not practical. Unless I make a 'stack' with the R2R as a DAC and the Pro-Ject Head Box as an AMP, that would justify it, plus I've been wanting a more clean sounding amp. Oh this audio thing drains you wallet. The darkvoice is also cheaper and I already have a dac,help. Plus then there's the cable upgrade this and upgrade that where's the end of the rainbow.

[EDIT] Only $AUD296 plus $12 shipping($US220 equivalent), why do you plant seeds in my head! It's also made in Austria where the K712s originally came from (mine is Slovakian!) arghhh. Get this and ditch tube amps? This seems like a steal the way you describe the amp, but I just want more musicality from the K712s, an the R2R is already a musical dac/amp, does it not make justice to the full potential to the K712s?

I think they were talking about the Pro-Ject Head Box DS2 B (which is over $500 USD on ebay) and not the S2 model which are around the prices you mentioned.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Lushy Brushy]

I think they were talking about the Pro-Ject Head Box DS2 B (which is over $500 USD on ebay) and not the S2 model which are around the prices you mentioned.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh yeah, that's right the DS2 B, silly me, wow that's way out of budget, and I can't be bothered modding the 712's for balanced. The s2 digital dac amp seems pretty good though :'( I'll never know what the K712's can do.

But actually I have also heard that the HEED CanAmp pair very well with AKGs and also have that very good 3D soundstage, which the K712s also sort of have. The HEED amp is said to drive current hungry headphones very well, the higher the impedance the better? And with my R2R dac I think it would be a winning situation. Comments, opinions, experiences? Would also consider a Mapletree as people say is spectacular, US790 + duties and shipping, but that's for later in the future, can't climb to the top too quick, there would be no joy of looking back.

Some people say the K712s are easy to drive but on quieter albums my R2R-11 is at 2 o'clock high gain, but I feel it performs much better on quiet albums when I crank the pot up, this is why I believe more power is needed for the quieter albums that I cannot turn to 2 o'clock without blasting my ears. At 62ohm I have to turn the pot further than with the 300ohm HD600 to get the same volume. Am I wrong thinking that more current will bring change and make the headphones sound much better? Or should I look for other headphones because people do report amazing improvements and being blown away by their HP after good pairing. The CanAmp does 300 mW (100 Ω) while the R2R does 900mW (100 Ω), the HEED amp might be better than the R2Rs though.

I also found this in some review: "More importantly, the sound quality that the K712 can deliver with a good headphone amp should not be ignored - the better amps will make a dramatic
improvement but don't expect different amplifiers to strengthen the K712's bass or add a significant impact, since I've already determined the lower bass to be very light
with a variety of headphone amps." HOWEVER the same guy also said "physically the K712 seems to be mostly or entirely metal, but if there are any plastic parts I can't tell what parts those are" (poor person might have traded his visual capabilities for improved hearing). http://dalethorn.com/Headphone_Akg_K712_Review.txt

 

[SSandDigital]

So the HD58x hype is real, but...

I don't care some say the K712 soundstage is artificial. Or that the treble is artificial, it is... But K712 may still be my favorite. The bass is definitely better on K712 than the HD58x which has a bass emphasis. I do like my treble, and K712 has that beat too. The mids HD58x takes the win. Soundstage, yeah some closed headphones can overtake HD58x... ya.

K712 definitely IMO deserve more attention. It's a travesty to me MassDrop chose the Annies over the K712 for K7xx. I wouldn't mind a red K7xx K712 edition.

 

[prymortal]

I've just changed Dac/Amps Currently using The Element from JDS Labs, I can actually use these headphones again. They are still bright (as screw) headphones compared my whole collection past & present, but its a more balanced sound now so it doesnt give me the headache they used to. I can also hear the extra bass now which isnt surpsiing I was using the Sennheiser GSX1000 0-48khz & The element is 20-20khz from memory? But weridly they are not as clear & detailed as i remember I think the HD660s have crushed that for a lot of headphones i have. I'm now going back to relisten to a few of them on The Element now, see how much they have changed.

I wamted to try these on the Jotunhiem as well but i got sold a Lemon.