[Joe Bloggs]

If the sonic characteristics of the 590 is indeed 'on middle ground' between Grados and the 580 / 600, he ought to like the 590 better than the 580... but no...

 

[bkelly]

MACdef,

The description you quote from Headroom of the 590's is one of several and is more of what I call their "appearance of objectivity" approach.

Send me a list of the high end magazines that rated the 580/600 above the 590. I will check them out.

I have not at all exagerated Headroom's bashing of the 590's. What I have stated is all true and would easily constitute bashing. I have played the 590's for a number of professional musicians and studio professional who all, to a man, prefer the 590's. I can get a hundred more but there is no need because the statistics won't change in favor of the the Headroom view from people who actually make the music.

Check on your own website, "scrypts" who is another studio musician with serious credentials has called the 600's "not terribly realistic". But Headroom says these are "in a class of one". It's just not true.

You know full well I know what double-talk is but just so we are clear what you do is just go through my my threads looking for anything you can try and throw mud on and disregard the more important points or anythung that tends to disprove your own views. As an example that last sentence was the strongest statement in the whole post and essentially wraps everything I said earlier into one statement.

Please read it again.

I just saw in your last reply where you made the claims that I said Headroom was "dishonest'. I am pretty sure this is an absolute "lie' on your part and I challenge you to find that statement. If you do I will publicly apologize to Headroom for that statement and personally send a PM to every member of Head-Fi statng my mistake. On the other hand if you cannot find the remark I think you should resign as a moderator or at least be barred from discussions on the HD600's because it is clear to me that you are just slinging mud at anyone who disagrees with you. If you look around what you will find is that on another recent thread I stated that I didn't even think that they were "decietfull", only slanted.

In your post you even appear to agree with this but try to make it look like it's all so reasonable. In fact, if they are slanted wouldn't that make their opinion less valuable. I think so and that is what I am saying.

I have gone around with you before MacDEF, and I've tried to be as fair as possible to you but I really am not impressed so far with your arguments and in the end I think you are just blindly firing your guns hoping to do some damage to anyone who disagrees with you. You and Headroom both use the "appearance of objectivity front" but, in the end, neither of you is truly very objective, in my opinion.

Eagle_Driver,

Bill Keyser's remarks are a long way from what Headroom has said and in truth what I think they have promoted. I have also saidthat there are only slight differences in these phones.

Despite what some people think even Sennheiser thought the 590's were a replacement for the 580. Does that tell you something?

MacDEF, (revisited)

You always want to reduce my comments to just a matter of my opinion but in truth I have made a living with my musical talents and I am well thought of in this industry. It doesn't make me right in every case but it does make my so called opinion worthy of consideration.

Since you have seen fit to put untrue words in my mouth and in a previous PM to me you have suggested that I might be unsuitable as a member at Head-FI I will offer my opinions about you. I think you are a complete amatuer and hobbyist that is way out of your league when it comes to anything that has to do with serious music listening. You may enjoy music in a big way and I hope you do but your opinions reproduction are no big deal to anyone who really knws anything about it. How you have made it to moderator at on a users group like Head-Fi is beyond me.


Tim,

I don't see how you came up with the idea that I said their was "a hidden army in support of the 590's". Clearly there is not and I fully realize that. Why do you think I argue on their behalf so much. All things considered they mertit an army of support but I don't een begin to believe it exists. However, check agin with me next year. Things may be different.

Otherwise I have no argument with anything else you said.

Once more for the record, let me state my point of view about the 590 vs the 600. As I have sid now on numerous posts the 590 and the 600 are opposite equals. They sound somewhat similar and other than the fact that one is brighter than the other I have said the best way to think of these two phones is as "opposite equals". I have also said that I prefer the 590's slightly over the 600's but agree that that would be a matter of taste. However the "opposite equals" comment is, I believe as an experienced professional in the recording industry and as a professional musician, much closer to fact.

Talk soon.





Best
Brian

 

[Tim D]

First of all, the moderators of head-fi are a motley crew and are not equivalent to being men of the cloth meant to uphold some holy word. We still have opinions, opinions that differ, and a right to speak our opinions like anyone else. We also have added responsibilities. Things we need to concern ourselves with...such as, why do so many threads end up being a defend or attack HD590 thread, or a Headroom is oppressive thread. We still have every right to still argue against anyone elses opinions.

You also have every right to argue and even attack other people's opinions. However I think a lot of people are getting sick of arguements against the characters of people/businesses, and basically ad hominem attacks.

The headroom graph had already been discussed and commented on when it came out. It is pretty evident that you have not even explored the reasoning or methodologies plainly listed on their website.

Quote:

Please note that on Headroom's "Product Measurement" page they have a chart for a frequency test of the HD600 that is plainly different from the one on the page where the phones are comparatively tested. This chart also shows a graph that is much closer to the actual sound of these phones in my opinion. I just know that there is an adequate explanation for this. I just know it.

Yes there is an adequate explanation...one that a lot of the users on this board have already known. They already understand what the Headroom measurements do and do not represent. You seem to come upon it as if it is the first time you've seen it yet seem confident that you have stumbled across something awry that no one else has noticed. It has already been acknowledged that their product measurement and comparisons only utilize the normalized charts. This normalization process has already been discussed for both its merits and obvious flaws. The short and skinny being that it is decent at showing what headphones STRONGLY differ from the pack, but pretty useless when you compare 4 similar headphones that end up being more similar then they really are. Normalization as done by Headroom, no matter how biased and slanted you really think it is, typically always DIMINISH deviations between ALL headphones(compare the high frequencies of normalized vs non-normalized). So yes even the HD590 will end up looking a lot like the other headphones regardless of not being picked as a top 10. It is NOT a frequency response chart in the normal sense of representing the sonic character of a headphone...it is more of a deviation from the average frequency of 10 good headphones chart. Are they somehow doing a disservice to potential headphone buyers around the world? If what headroom is doing is murder...how would Sony boasting their $10 earbuds frequency response specs as similar to electrostatic headphones rank in crime?

What I still don't understand is how this simple thread turns into an anti-Headroom HD590 oppression thread. Some of my favorite headphones, the ER4S, and AKG240S are not even shown on this chart...and I don't really care because I understand what the chart tries to do...and what it is not trying to do. And as far as I'm concerned...no I don't think this chart was meant as an HD590 oppression tool.

IMO the normalized graphs makes the HD590 look better on paper than it ever sounds to my ears. However I would agree, the non-normalized graph of the HD590 is more accurate, and much more indicative of its flaws than the normalized one.

And I honestly don't understand what you are trying to dig into the ground either. So the HD590 are opposite equals to HD580/600...ummm ok to whom(this is a rhetorical question, please don't send me a list of studio professionals)? How much does this thread really beg to turn into another HD590 debate thread? Or as moderators shall we now make a sticky post saying the HD590 are opposite equals to the HD580/600, and Headroom is obliged to do so as well...just because you and your knowledgable clique feel that way? I like the AKG240S...I don't around saying I like them and everyone else should because the AKG240M was such a big studio standard. Hey the guys on my Dream Theater CD cover are wearing some...they must be phones that are closer to the truth! The guy on my AKG240S box looks like lini...and lini is a cool dude! Hey look, the graph of the AKG240M shows poor bass response and the AKG240S claims improved bass response! Ummm maybe I am just not as passionate...but I really don't care what others think of it.

Likewise you can get all the studio professionals in the world, and argue and make the best graphs showing how good the HD590 is...and I still won't really like it. Well I'll make an exception because of the half-naked Sennheiser HD590 poster girl.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by bkelly The description you quote from Headroom of the 590's is one of several and is more of what I call their "appearance of objectivity" approach.

So when they're objective, it's only an "appearance" of objectivity, and when they are more opinionated, they're showing their "true" colors of being unprofessional??? If that isn't spin I don't know what is. Why isn't it that their "objectivity" is just that -- objectivity -- and they also happen to have personal opinions?


Quote:

Send me a list of the high end magazines that rated the 580/600 above the 590. I will check them out.

You can find reviews quite easily using any search engine. Even Sennheiser's web site lists awards for the HD 600 but not the HD 590 (not to mention that Sennheiser themselves has stated quite plainly that they feel the HD 600 is their "reference" headphone.

You disagree, and that's fine. I have no problem with that. It's your continuing insistence that everyone who disagrees with you is wrong that is the problem. LOL, I'm sitting here arguing with you about whether or not the HD 600 are better than the HD 590, when that's actually a pretty silly debate. But instead of framing the discussion on opinions, you keep implying, or stating outright, that there's some conspiracy against the HD 590.



Quote:

I have not at all exagerated Headroom's bashing of the 590's. What I have stated is all true and would easily constitute bashing.

By whom? You? You *have* exaggerated their "bashing." Read through all of your posts in this thread, and look at your use of words and "quotes."

More than just I have posted what HeadRoom has actually said about them. They like them, they think they're good headphones, but they don't think they are as good as the HD 600. You criticism HeadRoom for calling the HD 590 a "mistake," but you conveniently omit the context of that comment: they were a "mistake" as a replacement for the HD 580, not as a headphone in general. But, again, you're missing the point -- HeadRoom is stating their opinion on these headphones.


Quote:

But Headroom says these are "in a class of one". It's just not true.

Again, how can it not be "true" when it's their opinion? You just don't like it because it's not your opinion, which is really what this whole debate boils down to.


Quote:

You know full well I know what double-talk is but just so we are clear what you do is just go through my my threads looking for anything you can try and throw mud on and disregard the more important points or anythung that tends to disprove your own views.

First of all, that's not what double-talk is, LOL. But more importantly, that's a pretty lame accusation. I haven't "thrown mud" on anything. I've debated some of the things you've said, and I've done it logically. Mud is when you try to cast aspersions on other people's discussion style because you can't rebut their points (which I've seen in this thread, but not from me).

I also find it interesting that you try to make all these points, and when I debate any of them, suddenly, those are the "unimportant" points, while the ones that are basically your opinion, and thus can't be "disproven," are suddenly the "important" ones. So by trying *not* to argue opinions, I'm damned to "disregard the important points." Oh, well.


Quote:

As an example that last sentence was the strongest statement in the whole post and essentially wraps everything I said earlier into one statement. Please read it again.

It doesn't wrap everything into one statement by any stretch of the imagination. It simply states one of the several different positions you've taken in this thread. And it's hard to debate that statement because it's your opinion. I don't try to "prove" opinions wrong, so I didn't try to rebut it. I personally don't agree that your Segovia example is analogous to HeadRoom's HD 590 position, but I don't think it would do any good to take that debate much further.


Quote:

I just saw in your last reply where you made the claims that I said Headroom was "dishonest'. I am pretty sure this is an absolute "lie' on your part and I challenge you to find that statement. If you do I will publicly apologize to Headroom for that statement and personally send a PM to every member of Head-Fi statng my mistake. On the other hand if you cannot find the remark I think you should resign as a moderator or at least be barred from discussions on the HD600's because it is clear to me that you are just slinging mud at anyone who disagrees with you.

First of all, you need to understand that being a moderator does not preclude me, or any other moderator, from taking an active role in discussions. If I was using my role of moderator to somehow take advantage of you or someone else in this thread, that would be a huge problem. But NOTHING I have said in this thread has involved my "moderator" position in any way, shape, or form. I'm sorry, Brian, but this post from you is a real stretch, and yet another attempt to discredit me rather than have a serious discussion. My participation in this thread has been civil, and (apparently to your dismay) logical. Unlike you, who accuses people of "throwing mud" when they disagree (while at the same time doing just that to them, for apparently that very reason), I've been addressing your claims in a civil and rational manner. If you make a claim that doesn't hold up, blame yourself, not me.

As for your challenge:

Quote:

Originally posted by bkelly To All Concerned, Please note that on Headroom's "Product Measurement" page they have a chart for a frequency test of the HD600 that is plainly different from the one on the page where the phones are comparatively tested. This chart also shows a graph that is much closer to the actual sound of these phones in my opinion. I just know that there is an adequate explanation for this. I just know it.

If you weren't trying to imply that HeadRoom was being dishonest, please explain. The "to all concerned" and the snide "I just know there is an adequate explanation... I just know it," combined with your other comments about HeadRoom being self-serving and unprofessional, sure sounded like you were making a veiled accusation of dishonesty.

Quote:

If you look around what you will find is that on another recent thread I stated that I didn't even think that they were "decietfull", only slanted.

Yes, but you said that *after* the post where you implied they were misleading people.


Quote:

I have gone around with you before MacDEF, and I've tried to be as fair as possible to you but I really am not impressed so far with your arguments and in the end I think you are just blindly firing your guns hoping to do some damage to anyone who disagrees with you. You and Headroom both use the "appearance of objectivity front" but, in the end, neither of you is truly very objective, in my opinion.

Good for you, Brian. Right back at you. I personally think you just try to go on and on, repeating the same points without bothering to listen (read: understand) what other people are saying. If someone *gasp* has the audacity of continuing the debate and especially if they try to be rational about it, you eventually lose your cool and start slinging mud at them (while accusing them of doing it to you). I'm not hurt that you aren't impressed with my arguments. You don't seem to concerned with them in the first place.


Quote:

Since you have seen fit to put untrue words in my mouth

Untrue. I've never put any words in your mouth. You're responsible for everything you've said here.


Quote:

and in a previous PM to me you have suggested that I might be unsuitable as a member at Head-FI

For the record, since you're decided that even private messages are on the table in your continuing efforts to discredit those who disagree with you and have the guts to say it... I sent you a PM after you started to get very nasty to others in the first thread you participated here. I told you that we welcomed you as a member, and welcomed you to participate in discussions, but that treating people the way you were was unacceptable. The whole story is a bit more complex that your version, Brian.


Quote:

I will offer my opinions about you. I think you are a complete amatuer and hobbyist that is way out of your league when it comes to anything that has to do with serious music listening. You may enjoy music in a big way and I hope you do but your opinions reproduction are no big deal to anyone who really knws anything about it. How you have made it to moderator at on a users group like Head-Fi is beyond me.

Thanks for the kind words, Brian. It's nice to know you can make such educated judgments while knowing virtually nothing about my background and experiences. Once again, you're proving me right -- disagree with you and you spend more time trying to discredit than actually discussing. Which is why I sent you that PM you mentioned in the first place.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Quote:

I just saw in your last reply where you made the claims that I said Headroom was "dishonest'. I am pretty sure this is an absolute "lie' on your part and I challenge you to find that statement.

You did not make such a claim in as many words but having gone over your posts in this thread again, it is obvious that this is your attitude, or at least the impression that you are giving everyone

Especially when you pointed ask about the two different graphs of the HD600 and says 'I'm sure there must be an adequate explanation for this...' (the explanation being nothing good of course, you're sure) and also accuse HeadRoom of bending the truth at every corner with their nefarious measurement schemes

Also, since you think it is an indisputable fact that the 590 is at least as good as the 600 if not better, isn't HeadRoom by definition being 'dishonest' when they claim otherwise?

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by bkelly Send me a list of the high end magazines that rated the 580/600 above the 590. I will check them out.

There are no comparative reviews of those headphones on any high-end magazines thus far, as far as I know. Very few magazines have ever reviewed the HD 590 - and they had no HD 580 or HD 600 to compare it against. Likewise, the many high-end magazines that had reviewed the HD 580 and/or the HD 600 had never reviewed the HD 590 at all whatsoever.

Thus your preference for the HD 590 over the HD 580/HD 600 is just that - personal preference. The same goes for my preference of the HD 600 to the HD 590. And neither opinion is necessarily that of everyone else.

 

[bkelly]

MacDef,

For the record I only dislike you personally and I find your responses childish and irresponsible. Others on this site do not bother me what-so-ever, whether they agree with me or not, and some of my biggest arguments have been with people I like and respect immensely on this site. I don't think "kelly" and I agree on anything but he is one of the first people I seek out for his opinions on different equipment because I think he is honest while I think you are not.

Your response here is your usual throwing water on the fire bit and never address the meat of my arguments.

You got caught lying in the last one and have failed to even respond.

I don't plan on conitnuing to argue with you. It doesn't get anyone anywhere but if you want to go on forever, I am ready.

Ijust read yur response again and let me make it plainto you, " I think You are full of ****" No doubrt about that. Your arguments here amount to nothing but an attempt to keep anyone form having an opinion different than yours.








Best
Brian

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by bkelly MacDef, For the record I only dislike you personally

Having someone as important and knowledgeable as you dislike me is crushing to my "amateur" self esteem. And yes, I'm being completely facetious, just in case there was any confusion.


Quote:

and I find your responses childish and irresponsible.

I'm finding that you use such descriptions on a lot of people who disagree with you.


Quote:

because I think he is honest while I think you are not.

I'm "dishonest" because I have a different opinion than you, I guess. Oh, well.


Quote:

Your response here is your usual throwing water on the fire bit and never address the meat of my arguments.

If that's how you read it... that can't be helped, it appears.


Quote:

You got caught lying in the last one and have failed to even respond.

Or is it that you've failed to even read?


Quote:

I don't plan on conitnuing to argue with you.

That's good news for everyone.


Quote:

It doesn't get anyone anywhere but if you want to go on forever, I am ready.

I thought you said you were through?


Quote:

Ijust read yur response again and let me make it plainto you, " I think You are full of ****" No doubrt about that. Your arguments here amount to nothing but an attempt to keep anyone form having an opinion different than yours.

Hey, Brian... do me a favor. Next time you feel like accusing someone of "not letting anyone have an opinion different than you" or "never addressing the meat of arguments" or being "irresponsible and childish" or of "throwing mud"..... take a look in the mirror first. You'll find all that and more staring you in the face (and maybe you can can take cheap shots at him all day and spare us the agony).


*sigh* I might as well make one serious statement here... Yes, I'm being quite sarcastic in this response, Brian. I'm being "childish and irresponsible"... but I figured if I'm going to be labeled as such I might as well actually do it and have a little fun. It just isn't worth my time to try to have rational, civil discussion with you, because such efforts are lost on you.

The funny thing is that, "for the record," Brian, since you seemed to have missed this the first 1,354 times I said it, I have no problem with anyone liking the HD 590, or even liking them a lot more than the HD 600. I've never said otherwise in this thread.

 

[bkelly]

Joe Bloggs,

As I stated much earlier in this post (at least I think it is in this one) I cannot get any other curve to show on my computer other than the "normalized" one and as Tim D has suggested I have not completely read the explanation for all of this. As you suggest my comments were somewhat antagonistic but not once have I ever stated, as MacDEF claims, that Headroom is "dishonest" and have, in fact, clearly stated the opposite. MacDEF has done this kind of thing to me before. He just says anything he can dream up as a response. His comments are almost always misinterpretations of what I have said.

However, like Steve999 stated I am not sure what the validity in having a "normalized" curve is to begin with and when I saw the other chart, as I said, it looked much more like the way I think the 600's sound.

Tim D,

As stated above, you are right, I have not been able to study up on the Headroom chart because I cannot get it to access on my computer. Also, I would only, really be interested in a chart that represented how a particular phones actually sounded and, so, I have not gone to any effort to read up on this procedure.

Otherwise, I think you may be upset with me more than you need to be. While it is true I have a short fuse when it comes to "********" no one who knows me very well finds me very difficult to get along with.

Keep in touch.





Best
Brian

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

As I stated much earlier in this post (at least I think it is in this one) I cannot get any other curve to show on my computer other than the "normalized" one

I posted very clear instructions on how to do it. But then you don't seem to read any of my posts thoroughly...


Quote:

and as Tim D has suggested I have not completely read the explanation for all of this.

I suggested it, too. See above about not reading my posts.

Although it's interesting how you started this thread by criticizing the methodology, yet now you say you haven't "completely read the explanation for all of this." Interesting. But of course, this isn't a valid criticism -- it's just "mud slinging" for me to point it out. Sorry, my bad.


Quote:

As you suggest my comments were somewhat antagonistic but not once have I ever stated, as MacDEF claims, that Headroom is "dishonest" and have, in fact, clearly stated the opposite.

Funny, both JoeB and I pointed out where we got the impression that you were calling HeadRoom dishonest. And I pointed out that your "opposite" statement came after that. Still no response. Just more personal attacks. (Yet I'm the one who "doesn't address the meat of the argument." There's that mirror thing again.)


Quote:

MacDEF has done this kind of thing to me before. He just says anything he can dream up as a response.

You know, it's funny how my "dreams" seem to be so logical and based in facts. Maybe I'm psychic!

LOL... but in all seriousness -- what little I have left for this thread -- the above was simply another example of that mirror thing again.


Quote:

His comments are almost always misinterpretations of what I have said.

Probably. Especially those times where I've disagreed with what you said and offered a logical, rational response. I especially misinterpret those things. Shame on me.

Quote:

While it is true I have a short fuse when it comes to "********"

And apparently when it comes to people disagreeing, and being able to logically express their disagreement, as well.


Quote:

no one who knows me very well finds me very difficult to get along with.

Even if they did, you'd probably accuse them of being dishonest and making stuff up LOL

 

[Eagle_Driver]

I've found the "raw" response curve for the HD 590 at Headroom's site. In that response curve the HD 590 does have a pretty nasty response peak at just below 5kHz, where it rises about 5dB above the level at 1kHz. (No wonder why the Headroom guys thought the HD 590 was a bit too bright and a bit fatiguing.)

The HD 600, on the other hand, shows no suck peak there - but there is a rather steep valley at about 8kHz. (No wonder why some people thought the HD 600 was a bit too laid-back.)

 

[bkelly]

MacDEf,

You would have been wise to just let it rest but since you didn't we will continue.

I have read your earlier responses and once again you are purposely misinterpteting things I have said and then pretending that your responses somehow address the alleged things that I have never said.

I have already caught you lying plain and simple with your claim that I said Headroom was dishonest. I never said that and you have failed to prove anywhere that I ever did say that. Also, you are twisting the facts once again about when I said they were not even "decietfull'' since this is in a response to Slindeman's post and well before your "dishonest" comment.

Lies, lies, lies!

Also, as I have pointed out and I think that anyone who knows me very well will attest I have no problem with anyone just becasue they disagree with me. Check the record. You are the only one I have ever gotten into it with personally and that's because you have a dishonest way of dealing with me and I suspect others too.


As far as the instructions go once again you need to read my response and quit reinterpreting the things I say. I explained clearly that it is my computer that will not access the other curves. For whatever reason when I try to load it, I ccccccan't get it to complete. I obviously know how to do it or how do you think I know that it won't work.

Another lie is when you say that I have claimed others are slinging mud at me. I have never been into it with anyone other than you. I really questioned alot of what Eagle_Driver said and some of the things I questioned he even retracted but other than that I have no feeling of animosity toward him while the same cannot be said of you.

Your claiming to being"polite" "rational" or "logical" is somewhat like talking to a PLO representative in that it all sounds good if you happen to be idiotic enough to believe them.

Whatever happened to all the high-end magazines that rated the 600 over the 590. You said they exit but even Eagle-Driver disputes that.

Lies, lies, lies!

Oh yeah, lets do this comment about how Sennheiser claims that the 600's are their top of the line or something like that (I admit I don't have the exact wording). Let's step back. First Sennheiser puts out the 590 as a replacement for the 580 but when the 580 owners complain about this Sennheiser aggress to leave it in the line but tries to improve on it by matching the drivers (there is nothing magical about this, they are still using the same drivers they just put two together that sound (test) the same, hence my original argument against using both the 580 and the 600) and calling them the 600''s If and when Sennhesiir does the same thing with the 590 and calls it the 610 would you agree that it is then somehow magically thier best headphone. I don't think so.

Also, since the 600 is the most expensive phone (commonly available), they make I am not surprised that they says it is their best. What would you say if you were them?

Ask them if they think the 590 is a "mistake". I think they will agree (at least in private) with me that Headroom's is comments are stupid and childish.

Take the high road and leave this alone MacDEF. Show you've got some class and just leave this lay. If you don't know matter what you do I will not be responding to your comments anymore one this thread. I am sure everyone on this thread is tired of this already. If they are not just let me know because I truly enjoy making you look like the liar and fool I think you are.

Of course if somewhere down the road you twist something else I say around. I'll be on you in a big way.







Best
Brian

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Quote:

Also, since the 600 is the most expensive phone (commonly available), they make I am not surprised that they says it is their best. What would you say if you were them? Ask them if they think the 590 is a "mistake". I think they will agree (at least in private) with me that Headroom's is comments are stupid and childish.

You would go from taking issue with the comments a dealer makes about the cans it sell (not very useful) to asking the manufacturer what it thinks about their phones? And you would take their comments seriously? You're more stupid than I thought.

Quote:

Take the high road and leave this alone MacDEF. Show you've got some class and just leave this lay. If you don't know matter what you do I will not be responding to your comments anymore one this thread. I am sure everyone on this thread is tired of this already. If they are not just let me know because I truly enjoy making you look like the liar and fool I think you are.

If people swallow your deranged rants and stop debating it's called taking the 'high road'?

Quote:

I'll be on you in a big way.

Like a rabid dog, I'm sure

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by bkelly You would have been wise to just let it rest

You mean it's possible for me to somehow be "wise" in your eyes? And I missed my chance?


Quote:

but since you didn't

You're right, is must have been me. Couldn't have been anyone else who started making personal attacks or anything like that. I'm just a bad, bad person.


Quote:

I have already caught you lying plain and simple with your claim that I said Headroom was dishonest. I never said that and you have failed to prove anywhere that I ever did say that.

Life must be fun over there in NeverNeverLand, Brian. I pointed out quite clearly where you appeared to be accusing them of being dishonest. I later directed you to that post several times. But you would have had to actually read my posts to see that. Interestingly enough, Joe Bloggs said the same thing I did, but I don't see you attacking him (which makes it quite clear what your real intention is here).

Since you don't seem to read my posts, let me quote Joe:

Quote:

Quote: You did not make such a claim in as many words but having gone over your posts in this thread again, it is obvious that this is your attitude, or at least the impression that you are giving everyone Especially when you pointed ask about the two different graphs of the HD600 and says 'I'm sure there must be an adequate explanation for this...' (the explanation being nothing good of course, you're sure) and also accuse HeadRoom of bending the truth at every corner with their nefarious measurement schemes

Sorry, Bri... saying that I'm a liar over and over isn't going to make it so. If you can't own up to what you said, that's your problem, not mine. If you can't bring yourself to admit that in your paranoid zeal you might have gone overboard in your criticism and given everyone else the above impression, that's your problem, not mine. If you didn't mean to give the impression that you were accusing them of being dishonest for all the reasons I and Joe both cited, then say so, because I'm not the only one who got that impression. Don't try to weasel your way out of it by ignoring valid responses to your "challenges" and calling me a liar. Hint: everyone else can read what Joe and I have said quite clearly.


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Also, you are twisting the facts once again about when I said they were not even "decietfull'' since this is in a response to Slindeman's post and well before your "dishonest" comment.

I'll try to be as clear as I can for you, Bri. In the post where I made the "dishonest" comment, I was presenting a short summary of your actions in this thread in order, up to that point. You know, using words like "First you" "then you" etc. You do understand the concept of time, don't you? So you understand that I wasn't making any accusation then, but rather was referring back to your behavior earlier in the thread, right? You wouldn't be doing what you keep accusing me of, twisting things around, would you? So now you understand that my earlier comment, that your "not deceitful" disclaimer came after your veiled accusations of dishonesty, was chronologically correct, right? If so, good.


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Lies, lies, lies!

Either you really like the Thompson Twins or you're calling me names again. I wish I could figure out which one it is... (obscure 80s song reference, for those following along)


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Check the record. You are the only one I have ever gotten into it with personally and that's because you have a dishonest way of dealing with me and I suspect others too.

Brian, if you weren't such a jerk in threads like this I might be offended by your continued insults LOL

I haven't been "dishonest" once in this thread, nor anywhere else on Head-Fi for that matter. Whether you like it or not, Bri, I've been on Head-Fi a long time and am generally respected. Not because I'm some god of audio, but because I generally treat people well. I try to help people with questions. I try to be fair, even with people I disagree with. Sure, I get in debates at times, but I can count on one hand the number of times there has been open animosity in such debates, and two of those involve you. Considering that I'm one of the original members here, I'd say that's a pretty good record.

In contrast, you just recently joined and already you've gotten into it with me twice. If you read the threads you've been involved in since your auspicious debut here, most of them involve you telling other people they're wrong, and eventually coming up with some grand "theory" as to why they disagree with you (which always tends to be little more than a veiled way of saying they like "colored" or "inaccurate" sound while you're a better judge of "accurate" reproduction). A couple of other people have started to get into it with you, but they eventually just took the high road and ignored you or humored you (or just laughed you off). And lets not forget that in both of the threads in which you've gotten into it with me, you were the one who started insulting me, casting aspersions on me personally, questioning my "qualifications" to even be in such a debate with you, etc. So I find your attempt to dump the blame on me quite laughable. The numbers just don't add up, Bri.

But... if it makes you feel better to think that you're so much better than I --not that you actually know anything about me -- and that the problem here is that I'm an amateur, I'm out of my league, I'm dishonest, I'm a liar, I'm a bad person, etc., etc., then so be it. Whatever gets you through the night. I'm sure cheaper than therapy.


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As far as the instructions go once again you need to read my response and quit reinterpreting the things I say. I explained clearly that it is my computer that will not access the other curves. For whatever reason when I try to load it, I can't get it to complete. I obviously know how to do it or how do you think I know that it won't work.

My apologies. Do you have JavaScript disabled? If so, you won't be able to see the graphs by clicking on them on the individual product pages. Here's the direct URL of the standard HD 600 curve, prominently linked from the HD 600 product page:

http://www.headphone.com/showGraph.php?graphID=86



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Another lie is when you say that I have claimed others are slinging mud at me.

That's not a lie; that's simply you twisting words around. When I say that you complain others are slinging mud when you're the one doing it, "others" is rhetorical. It means "me." You were complaining that I was slinging mud when up to that point it was all you. But I should have learned my lessons on your opportunistic literalism by now, especially when you can use it to call me a liar.


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Your claiming to being"polite" "rational" or "logical" is somewhat like talking to a PLO representative in that it all sounds good if you happen to be idiotic enough to believe them.

Brian, this thread didn't turn nasty until you started making personal attacks. Once again, the mirror thing applies so well.


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Whatever happened to all the high-end magazines that rated the 600 over the 590. You said they exit but even Eagle-Driver disputes that. Lies, lies, lies!

You not using a search engine doesn't make me a liar, Brian. Maybe it makes me lazy for not doing it for you LOL. But unless I reply specifically to this, you'll whine that I'm "disregarding" something, so... I can think of three off the top of my head: Stereophile, Soundstage, and Enjoy The Music. I believe HiFi Choice rated the HD 600 higher, as well. I've read others but I don't want to hazard a guess which of the magazines they were, because you'd probably spend the next three days trying to catch me in a mistake. But the hilarious thing is that everyone in the headphone community knows that the HD 600 are one of the most highly-reviewed headphones on the market, and are generally reviewed more highly than the HD 590. That doesn't make them the best, but it does mean that you trying to call me a "liar" for stating what is a generally accepted fact is pretty ludicrous. And illustrative of how fanatical you are on this issue.


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If and when Sennhesiir does the same thing with the 590 and calls it the 610 would you agree that it is then somehow magically thier best headphone. I don't think so.

No, I'm referring to the fact that Jan Meier went to Sennheiser headquarters and talked to the people who designed them. But they were probably just being dishonest, right, Bri?


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Take the high road and leave this alone MacDEF.

Sorry, your insults and accusations already brought me down to the "low road." I held out as long as I could...


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Show you've got some class and just leave this lay.

I was going to until your replies, including ones to other people, kept accusing me of lying or being dishonest or some other nasty behavior more appropriately applied to yourself. If you don't want people to respond, stop insulting them. If you want people to take the "high road" show some class yourself LOL


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If you don't know matter what you do I will not be responding to your comments anymore one this thread.

Yay! There *is* a God!

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just let me know because I truly enjoy making you look like the liar and fool I think you are.

Only in your mind, Bri, only in your mind LOL


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I'll be on you in a big way.

I think I'm supposed to be intimidated by this. For some reason it's not working.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Enable JavaScript to see all the graphs on your browser. Mac's already posted this--this is here just in case you didn't see it.