[thoppa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.massimo /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is the purpose of 16bits/24bits choice in the driver control panel (ASIO CPL tag)?

I assume it is to match the word length of the software output. CDs are 16 bits but the resampler changes this to 24 bits. If you have a 24 bit file and select 16 then it'll probably truncate (cut off) the last 8 bits, which means loss of dynamics and detail. Whether you can hear this is another matter.

In the audio cpl it should say what the word length is at the bottom so you can select the matching one in the asio cpl.

 

[m.massimo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the audio cpl it should say what the word length is at the bottom so you can select the matching one in the asio cpl.

Thank you for the explanation. I see that the control panel status bas shows a bits per sample as it has been chosen in the cpl itself, regardless of the original track word-length, foobar resampler or not, and of the audio cpl selection.
Samplerate is shown as foobar output instead.
It's not very clear to me how it works. Does it add or truncate bits from the word? And for what purpose? Could not be simpler to leave as it is? Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[thoppa]

Hi

When I started this driver, the asio cpl was set to 16 bit and the audio cpl was on auto. In the bar at the bottom of the audio cpl it says the data playing is 96000/24, so I changed the ASIO bit depth to 24 to match. What is happening with your driver ?

Many dsp chips run at 32 bits. They pad (add) the word length with extra zeroes. The dsp processes the data to change bass, treble, volume, etc and this creates numbers that can run to 32 bits or more. This is then truncated back to 16 or 24 for spdif. This allows the dsp to alter the data without creating audible artifacts from rounding errors.

AFAIK the word length is simply a binary code. So for a 3 bit code the first bit says 0 or 1, the second 2, the third 4. So it would be possible to create any number from 0 to 7. Turn up the bass on 7 and you find you need 8.2134 so the dsp needs extra words to do the maths right.

I dunno how the sox does its maths, but it seems it needs to increase the word length too.

For this driver, it seems it can't auto-select word length. This is quite common, so we have to do it manually.

For the Musiland MD-10 dac, it has a bit depth setting (16, 20, 24). I spent quite a long time listening to see if I could hear the difference. Before the mods I couldn't but after the mods I can hear if the source is 96/24 and I set the dac to 16. It just loses a little bit of the space around the instruments. However, I can't hear any difference if the source is 16 bits and I got the dac set to 24. So for me, I just leave it at 24. I'll be doing the same with the driver.

 

[m.massimo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif So for me, I just leave it at 24. I'll be doing the same with the driver.

Hi,

I think this is the best option. The largest part of my tracks is 16bits but I don't want to go back and forth in the driver cpl to change from 16 to 24 or 24 to 16 depending on the track bitspersample.
However I'll take a look at it next week to see whether I can hear any difference with 96/24 tracks.

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the Musiland MD-10 dac, it has a bit depth setting (16, 20, 24). I spent quite a long time listening to see if I could hear the difference. Before the mods I couldn't but after the mods I can hear if the source is 96/24 and I set the dac to 16. It just loses a little bit of the space around the instruments. However, I can't hear any difference if the source is 16 bits and I got the dac set to 24. So for me, I just leave it at 24. I'll be doing the same with the driver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.massimo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, I think this is the best option. The largest part of my tracks is 16bits but I don't want to go back and forth in the driver cpl to change from 16 to 24 or 24 to 16 depending on the track bitspersample. However I'll take a look at it next week to see whether I can hear any difference with 96/24 tracks.

As thoppa suggested, it doesn't hurt to leave the bit depth at 24. At worst case scenario, it doesn't degrade the sound quality. Best case scenario, it improves the sound quality.
In my experience, I have found out that setting Foobar at 24/32 bits provide a (very) slight improvement over 16bits even in playing 16 bits files.
The reason behind it is that most dac chips are more linear when they are fed 24 bits data instead of 16 bits data even if the remaining 8bits contain only zeros.
As an example, you can look at the graphs page 4 of the excellent sounding R2R pcm1704 dac chip: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1704.pdf. The graphs shows the difference between 20 bits and 24 bits input. I suspect that other DAC chips would show an even greater difference when fed with 16 bits vs. 24 bits.

 

[m.massimo]

Very interesting.
It must be noted that X2-Asio driver is set at 16 by default just after installation.

 

[noinimod]

slim.a: I can hardly wait for your teralink x2 impressions! I couldn't stomach the cost of the hiface even though it did have sonic benefits on my system; the x2 looks like a tantalizing cost-effective alternative. I'll probably made a decision after i hear your impressions of it

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim.a /img/forum/go_quote.gif As thoppa suggested, it doesn't hurt to leave the bit depth at 24. At worst case scenario, it doesn't degrade the sound quality. .

Does it retain bitperfectness running RBCD with the 24bit setting?

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noinimod /img/forum/go_quote.gif slim.a: I can hardly wait for your teralink x2 impressions! I couldn't stomach the cost of the hiface even though it did have sonic benefits on my system; the x2 looks like a tantalizing cost-effective alternative. I'll probably made a decision after i hear your impressions of it

I should receive both the Teralink X2 and (back) the hiface next week. I will post my impressions then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does it retain bitperfectness running RBCD with the 24bit setting?

Yes, it retains "bit-perfectness" because the first 16 bits remain untouched. I did the test a while back ago with the hiface and Musiland. When setting the bit rate on Foobar at 24 or 32 bits, the HDCD discs would still get recognized by the dac19mk3 (with pdm100). The volume would drop by 6db on certain discs.
However, when setting 16 bits, those same hdcd discs would sometimes fail to get recognized when played through the Teralink X1 (on some particular occasions).

Maybe I missed something, but as far as I could tell, there is no reason to use the 16 bits output with a 24 bits usb converter.

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim.a /img/forum/go_quote.gif I should receive both the Teralink X2 and (back) the hiface next week. I will post my impressions then. However, when setting 16 bits, those same hdcd discs would sometimes fail to get recognized when played through the Teralink X1 (on some particular occasions). .

Thats odd with my X1 I haven't had any problems with HDCD being recognized, I'm just using the generic WinXP USB driver.

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thats odd with my X1 I haven't had any problems with HDCD being recognized, I'm just using the generic WinXP USB driver.

I tried different drivers, media players and output plugins. I honestly do not remember on what particular occasion it happened with the X1, but it did.
However, with most settings, the X1 would pass HDCD.

The good thing is that most 24 bits devices seem to pass HDCD without problem. Unfortunately, by the time I will receive the Teralink-X2, the dac19mk3 will be gone ... so I won't be able to test that theory with the X2.

 

[thoppa]

Hi guys,

I am going to try a usb isolator - AD's ADuM4160 to be precise - together with making my own cables. Has anyone tried one of these ? I trust it will work with the X2....

ADUM4160 | Full/Low Speed USB Digital Isolator | Digital Isolators | Interface | Analog Devices

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by digger945 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Took a peek at your profile. I was hoping that you might have tried the Musiland 02 for transport(what I am using atm). Did you buy a computer with Windows 7 or uprade? I just upgraded to 7 Ultimate today after doing some listening and it is an improvement for my system. Did you notice a pretty substantial improvement when you started using the hiface? Please excuse all the seemingly random questions. I value your opinion here.

I was reminded of your question from a recent post in the other transport thread. I'm getting the Musiland 02US shipped to me now, so I'll let you know what I find.
You have some great gear, so I'd wager that the differences among these transports would be even larger in your system.

 

[joe_cool]

My X2 arrived today and I took time to install it between PC and DAC, using RCA output with Blue Jeans Cable 6 foot long. I am impressed with the sound right away as it compares favorably with the coax output of my M-Audio PCI card. I'm using the ASIO driver "usb3pkg_v0p7p3p2a_20100401" with auto settings and 24-bit data.

 

[TrumpOrMonkey]

My Teralink X2 shipped out today. I expect it late this week or early next week, I also expect my Van Den Hul Optocoupler MKII to come in the mail with it too.

I personally believe only the length and bandwidth of a USB Cable will make a difference, but then again the bandwidth is very limited as such from USB 2.0, to hear any difference between a Generic 6 ft USB cable compared to a Wireworld Starlight 6 ft, you'd probably have to have 24 karat golden ears. Optical/Digital cable is much more important, then RCA interconnect cables are whole lot more important than the Optical/Digital cable.