this is a big mistake...IMHO the sol p is the best headphone nobody knows about and in large part due to the price....they are doing themselves no favors..personally I think the sol p is better than the new lcd-5 but the 2k price difference now possibly to be more makes it a tough sell..at say 5K instead of 6400 or if increased close to 7k it is tough to get people to listen to what is one of the very best HP's out there
While I agree that the Solitaire P is a hidden gem, the pricing is quite different to most other headphones, since it is a lot cheaper on the EU market than US which usually never happens.
Until now the Solitaire P is 4800€ and the LCD-5 is 5000€
Next year they switch and the Solitaire P will be 200€ more expensive than the Audeze instead of cheaper.
So until now most of the competition have been more expensive than the Solitaire P in the EU and next year that slightly switches around.
that is interesting...I didnt realize that...well then perhaps they should adjust pricing in the US...I love them and think that simply the price keeps people in the US from giving them a look
My perception about the upper mids changed session to session, maybe depending on time of the day, whether my ears are tired etc. Sometimes it just felt OK, sometimes I needed to EQ. But EQ always was a positive addition once I heard it.
And that is what is frustrating about T+A and is obvious to many on a comparitive audition. With all their sophisticated equipment and listening experts why is T+A not able to come to the same conclusion?
Despite the high price point, fixing that problem would largely eliminate any need to consider the competition (fit issues aside). However, rather than deal with the dip from day one their Ultrawide Pad instead tried to address a treble problem that did not exist. Moreover, despite the general negative feedback on the UW pad, they are still stubbornly refusing to address the main issue.
I'm afraid the price increase will simply shine a brighter spotlight on the problem (too much of a deviation from neutral in the upper mids) and make this great headphone less desireable than other TOTL offerings in many markets.
I remember reading from a dealer who dropped T+A from his store due to the fact they continued to raise prices on their entire line, and it just didn't sell. Thought it was great gear, but didn't move at all. Perhaps they make the majority of their money in the European market, vs the North American one.
I'd love to hear the Solitaire P, but just can't justify the MSRP sight unseen vs other options, especially considering the largely mixed feedback from the small amount of the community which has heard them. Maybe I'll find a store with them at some point to try out.
And that is what is frustrating about T+A and is obvious to many on a comparitive audition. With all their sophisticated equipment and listening experts why is T+A not able to come to the same conclusion?
Despite the high price point, fixing that problem would largely eliminate any need to consider the competition (fit issues aside). However, rather than deal with the dip from day one their Ultrawide Pad instead tried to address a treble problem that did not exist. Moreover, despite the general negative feedback on the UW pad, they are still stubbornly refusing to address the main issue.
I'm afraid the price increase will simply shine a brighter spotlight on the problem (too much of a deviation from neutral in the upper mids) and make this great headphone less desireable than other TOTL offerings in many markets.
I have been listening to DCA Stealth for a while now and tried the P-SE of my wife a few days ago. I am still in awe with what these drivers are capable of, their electrostatic character, but my ears wanted a little raise in that region. Maybe if I would listen to them for a couple of days or weeks, I would again be OK with the tuning.
That brings me to the fact that, it is a very fragile tuning. Little deviations of my perception affects the perceived information with a greater ratio / coefficient. A little raise, like 2 - 3 dB would for sure bring this amazing HP to a larger audience without really pushing it too hard, like in your face.
I remember reading from a dealer who dropped T+A from his store due to the fact they continued to raise prices on their entire line, and it just didn't sell. Thought it was great gear, but didn't move at all. Perhaps they make the majority of their money in the European market, vs the North American one.
I'd love to hear the Solitaire P, but just can't justify the MSRP sight unseen vs other options, especially considering the largely mixed feedback from the small amount of the community which has heard them. Maybe I'll find a store with them at some point to try out.
The problem is, they just came out around the same time as the pandemic and since then the prices for components keep fluctuating. AFAIK all the components of their products are local productions, so the pricing is based on the Germany prices rather than China. Just as the US or even China products are considerably more expensive here in the EU, Germany production prices are higher there in the US.
And that is what is frustrating about T+A and is obvious to many on a comparitive audition. With all their sophisticated equipment and listening experts why is T+A not able to come to the same conclusion?
Despite the high price point, fixing that problem would largely eliminate any need to consider the competition (fit issues aside). However, rather than deal with the dip from day one their Ultrawide Pad instead tried to address a treble problem that did not exist. Moreover, despite the general negative feedback on the UW pad, they are still stubbornly refusing to address the main issue.
I'm afraid the price increase will simply shine a brighter spotlight on the problem (too much of a deviation from neutral in the upper mids) and make this great headphone less desireable than other TOTL offerings in many markets.
Do not forget about the ones with weird hearing, who can't stand upper mid elevation, like me. For those P is perfect.
I've just heard the LCD-5, and not too long ago the Utopia. On those, when I set volume to be comfortable, there is no bass. When I set volume to nice bass, they are ear piercing.
Do not forget about the ones with weird hearing, who can't stand upper mid elevation, like me. For those P is perfect.
I've just heard the LCD-5, and not too long ago the Utopia. On those, when I set volume to be comfortable, there is no bass. When I set volume to nice bass, they are ear piercing.
That is the beauty of the P. It already has great, low distortion bass and a lot of detail so no need to listen at ridiculously high levels to get the bass to sound correct or bring out detail. In fact, at normal volumes with the P the bass dominates and that is why a boost in the upper midrange is necessary to obtain a more balanced signature and more realistic dynamics.
We need someone in the community who has a contact at T+A or knows a dealer who has some influence with them who could more firmly push the point to increase the upper midrange by the 2 or 3db suggested. I actually think it could be increased a bit more given the performance capability and low distortion of the driver, but 3db is probably safe in terms of not obviously changing the character of the headphone. At this price point they should really be including the extra pads for free, but I would gladly pay extra to have the issue properly addressed.
Do not forget about the ones with weird hearing, who can't stand upper mid elevation, like me. For those P is perfect.
I've just heard the LCD-5, and not too long ago the Utopia. On those, when I set volume to be comfortable, there is no bass. When I set volume to nice bass, they are ear piercing.
This is something I found with my LCD-5 yesterday. I listened without eq to start my day at low volume and it sounded great. As I increased, the mids became more pronounced giving the mid forward character. I wonder if this is some weird phenomena where perceived tonality changes with volume due to our anatomy affecting only some and not all. Where one might listen low and agree with everything never experiencing the impact or slam that can be offered at either higher volume or with an eq boost in bass, where you would say it's not needed.
The problem is, they just came out around the same time as the pandemic and since then the prices for components keep fluctuating. AFAIK all the components of their products are local productions, so the pricing is based on the Germany prices rather than China. Just as the US or even China products are considerably more expensive here in the EU, Germany production prices are higher there in the US.
Yes thats true, prices are going up all over the board. However, the dealer I was reading from, mentioned this pre-pandemic, and that they had a history of raising prices, when the products were not even moving at the old pricing.
I don't know personally, haven't heard or used any of their gear.
This is something I found with my LCD-5 yesterday. I listened without eq to start my day at low volume and it sounded great. As I increased, the mids became more pronounced giving the mid forward character. I wonder if this is some weird phenomena where perceived tonality changes with volume due to our anatomy affecting only some and not all. Where one might listen low and agree with everything never experiencing the impact or slam that can be offered at either higher volume or with an eq boost in bass, where you would say it's not needed.
There are zero absolutes in hearing. When I read people hear differences with SD cards and even "burn in" the SD cards and hear differences, makes me chuckle really hard. In the end what we perceive is a range depending on the environmental and anatomical influences, rather than a single absolute that is always one and the same. For example:
Yes thats true, prices are going up all over the board. However, the dealer I was reading from, mentioned this pre-pandemic, and that they had a history of raising prices, when the products were not even moving at the old pricing.
I don't know personally, haven't heard or used any of their gear.
I've seen several small price increases in the past and a big one in 2022.
The quality of the gear speaks for itself though. Quality, useability, haptics, aesthetics and sound are simply amazing.
I still think about getting the MP 2000R Mk2 since I enjoy the PA2000R so much...
However I expect the Rockna combo to outclass it in pure sound quality... therefore I wait it out.
This is something I found with my LCD-5 yesterday. I listened without eq to start my day at low volume and it sounded great. As I increased, the mids became more pronounced giving the mid forward character. I wonder if this is some weird phenomena where perceived tonality changes with volume due to our anatomy affecting only some and not all. Where one might listen low and agree with everything never experiencing the impact or slam that can be offered at either higher volume or with an eq boost in bass, where you would say it's not needed.
Yes, that relationship is outlined by the Fletcher Munson curves. Basically, your perception of the relative sound intensities of different frequencies varies with volume. This is why one's perception of frequency response accuracy will depend on the level at which they typically listen and why exact level matching (within 0.5db) is critical when comparing components (if not then the slightly louder component almost always sounds better). How the level is matched is also important. Even the sequence in which components are auditioned and length of audition matters due to the ears' natural ability to compensate over time for deviations from what the brain perceives as "accurate".
Target curves are only statistical averages over a large population of what many brains perceive as accurate. Individual preferences can and do vary greatly, but large deviations from an established target suggest that most users in the population will perceive that something is "off" in the area of the deviation.
Note that this is before even considering the other factors that @DarginMahkum mentions above!
I've seen several small price increases in the past and a big one in 2022.
The quality of the gear speaks for itself though. Quality, useability, haptics, aesthetics and sound are simply amazing.
I still think about getting the MP 2000R Mk2 since I enjoy the PA2000R so much...
However I expect the Rockna combo to outclass it in pure sound quality... therefore I wait it out.
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