[Xavilaw]

It's all about transparency and integrity imo and I fully understand some people's desire who want to know exactly what they are buying and pay for it. Everything is disclosed nowadays starting from food, medicine, specs of electronics like cellphone or even your dac/amp setup as it should be. I don't want to be a part of this experiment because a company decides so. Imagine all companies in the world would behave exactly like symphonium and conduct this tiny mind bias game in the public. Of course, all the companies would claim that they have worked on the previous model hard and improved dramatically and to try it with your senses without bias.

Well that's exactly it, isn't it? People here complaining didn't buy it. People who did buy it have not. Don't agree, don't buy. It's called freedom of choice, it goes both ways.

 

[galthepal]

I have a pair of Elysian Diva that I really love but want something that is a little more comfortable. Has anyone here tried the fit of both the Symphonium Crimson vs the Monarch Mk3? Debating which one to get as both seem very popular

 

[AsciiJC]

Crimson looks pretty cool!

 

[PixelSquish]

It's all about transparency and integrity imo and I fully understand some people's desire who want to know exactly what they are buying and pay for it. Everything is disclosed nowadays starting from food, medicine, specs of electronics like cellphone or even your dac/amp setup as it should be. I don't want to be a part of this experiment because a company decides so. Imagine all companies in the world would behave exactly like symphonium and conduct this tiny mind bias game in the public. Of course, all the companies would claim that they have worked on the previous model hard and improved dramatically and to try it with your senses without bias.

I agree with you if this was a widespread thing. But right now it's one company doing it with one pair of IEMS. If it happens sporadically in the industry that's fine but yes I don't think it should be the status quo that companies do this often

 

[kaeswiss]

Well that's exactly it, isn't it? People here complaining didn't buy it. People who did buy it have not. Don't agree, don't buy. It's called freedom of choice, it goes both ways.

I was the first one to ask about the driver config when headphones.com announced here that their preorders went live. Headphones.com and @Sebastien Chiu responded that the driver config details weren't available yet and that it'll eventually be announced, which was fine by me. Like everyone here, having heard different IEMs with the same driver config that sound completely different, it wasn't a big deal (to me) not knowing exactly what was inside the Crimson.

Of course, I wasn't going to drop $1.5k on an IEM that I haven't listened to yet that also didn't have much info online, so I waited for more impressions and reviews to come in. I found this thread and found familiar head-fi'ers that shared similar impressions with me on other IEMs. Eventually, I was convinced that this was my next purchase and I put in a preorder the week before they were shipped.

Now that I have them and have listened to them a great deal, I have to agree with all of the head-fi'ers that gave their impressions. It is a definitely a fantastic set and I'm happy with the purchase.

That being said, I have to say that this whole "experiment" has been a very negative experience for me. Although I am happy with the product, I feel like if a company is going to experiment with their business strategy of bringing a new product to market, don't actually tell the consumers that they're in an experiment. I do not want to know that I'm a guinea pig.

From what I can tell, these are the far ends of the spectrum.

- We have Group A that has concerns with a company that doesn't provide product details when asked. These details are readily available by other companies for their products. Why isn't there transparency with this company?​

- We have Group B that has brushed off Group A's inquiry request and directed them elsewhere. If driver config info is so important, they should look elsewhere.​

I don't know about you, but if this experiment is to see how many of Group A or Group B purchases the product, I'd be interested in seeing the results as well.

I'm in neither group. I'm just a guinea pig with the Crimson in its ears.

 

[jp11801]

As the OP I’d like to ask we tamp down the negative stuff about the driver count and configuration. The intent of the thread.was to discuss listening impressions and be a place for owner or audition reviews.

The driver topic has been best to death at this point.

 

[Chang]

Not sharing drivers configuration is also a trick to release new products without having R&D costs.
Just retune and remarket and call it a day.

When it is a retune, we believe in being transparent to tell you as much as we did with Helios SE, which was created based off community requests. We know of many entities in the space that just retune and re-release tweaks as a brand new model, but I can assure everyone that we are extremely against this, as it ultimately results in stagnation and is a waste of everyone's time.

Apple can hide the specs but behind we can still benchmark and compare hard numbers to justify the pricing.

This comparison confuses me, as it is not remotely analogous. You can also do any equivalent of user tests with the Crimson, be it listening tests or measurements. And many have already stated that the measured and experienced performance with Crimson is worth the asking price and even comparable to pricier IEMs and IEMs with "better" paper specs.

What would be equivalent to what you're claiming would be saying a 6-core CPU is better than a 4-core CPU just because it has more cores, without any regard for clock speed, cooling, architecture and proper implementation as part of a cohesive system. And that the 4-core CPU has fewer cores and hence should cost less even if it performs better.

don't actually tell the consumers that they're in an experiment

To this point, this was indeed an oversight and seems to be the result of an unfortunate alignment of assumptions. We did not expect this choice to be as contentious as it has been and we did assume that most folks buying through our retailers would base their purchase decisions on information that was already available, like impressions, information on the store page and information on the official website. However, I can also understand the point of view of a consumer who might just make the assumption that this information could be found later after the purchase. We did inform everyone who purchased in person at London and everyone who purchased directly, had we know that this would be such a point of contention we would have requested our retailers display disclaimers on the purchase pages as well. We will keep this in mind.

and asking for the same price while costs are already absorbed by the previous gens?

It's all about transparency and integrity imo and I fully understand some people's desire who want to know exactly what they are buying and pay for it. Everything is disclosed nowadays starting from food, medicine, specs of electronics like cellphone or even your dac/amp setup as it should be. I don't want to be a part of this experiment because a company decides so. Imagine all companies in the world would behave exactly like symphonium and conduct this tiny mind bias game in the public. Of course, all the companies would claim that they have worked on the previous model hard and improved dramatically and to try it with your senses without bias.

I do not think it's satisfactory for the most consumers esp. when it comes to the question what do you charge that much for?

Likely another 4BA setup. I'm a bit pissed that they push the price to $1600. Previously, they said they deliberately keep the Helios 4BA to save money on both side. $1100 was not exactly cheap comparing to the rest of the market, but acceptable (back then). If that cost saving it real, the crimson could/should have been $1000 or $1100 again.

These are just some of the responses that we anticipated and that factored into the decision to structure the launch the way we did. Our choice to gather feedback this way was our plea to give Crimson a shot with no preconceived notions, and to try to engage with us to understand what goes behind the scenes in achieving higher levels of performance. It isn't always about more drivers or exotic driver types. Often times, the more optimal option is to use a lower driver count and maximise the implementation of those drivers. Why don't other companies do this? Because it takes a lot of work on the R&D front, makes QC more challenging, and makes manufacturing much more complex.

It is also extremely unmarketable, as proven by the above comments, as people often assume manufacturers should price using a cost-plus model with no regard for labour, build complexity, component quality, and R&D time. R&D is labour and capital intensive and requires us to redirect resources that could otherwise be used for production or other operational needs. The skill and experience required is also considerable to achieve the desired results. Compared to putting in the legwork to achieve real results, which seems to have yielded fruit based on the feedback on this thread and also measured performance, it is in reality much simpler to build a 12 or 16 driver, or a high driver count tribrid with a simple crossover. QC would be so much simpler, component availability much better, build times shorter, and BAs really don't cost that much in the grand scheme of things, especially if clones like Bellsing or EAudio are used, as is the case with many manufacturers. Even if using genuine Knowles and Sonion drivers, often high driver count IEMs generally opt for cheaper BAs for cost reasons over sound quality considerations.

We were all enthusiasts and consumers previously before we started our respective companies, and trust me when I say that in the 13 years I have been in this hobby, I have seen my fair share of questionable and stretched claims. As such, all of us actively advocate for skepticism and critical questioning about any claims. Good-faith skepticism and questions are more than welcome, but what has been slung on this thread has been, politely put, very dismissive.

We are more than happy to share as much as we can as long as it doesn't compromise anything sensitive, but the majority of the critical comments have been quite presumptive and throw any nuance out the window. I understand that the current state of the market would lead a consumer who has been in the space for awhile to assume the worst, but to presume guilt before having experienced a product, or at least trying to understand what went into making it, is quite disheartening, to say the least.

Those that decry the lack of innovation in the industry yet continue to promote such a narrow concept of what innovation and value entails (more drivers, more exotic driver types) are doing a disservice to themselves and the entire industry. It is sentiments like these that create the perverse incentives that lead to manufacturers creating low-effort products with as much novelty and paper specs as possible, with no regard to longevity, long-term relevance or actual performance. There have been so many IEMs in recent years that featured the latest and greatest specs, only to be forgotten about after 6 months. Short product life cycles and high consumption seem to be the name of the game these days, but it is wasteful and simply just not something we believe in. We actively discourage impulse buying of our products. We want people who really want it to buy it, rather than hype purchases that will just end up being e-waste.

Helios, to this day, still remains relevant as one of the best options in its price bracket and for its sound signature. Crimson, along with the rest of our creations, are designed in the same way. They are crafted intentionally and purposefully, and serve as our statement against the fast-paced churn that is becoming more prevalent in the industry. Crimson will sound good today, and it will still sound good in 5 years’ time. Fine tuning an IEM like this doesn't happen by chance, it requires time, skill and resources, non of which come free. Whether that is worth it to the end consumer is up to them to decide. All who subscribe to this vision are welcome, and for those who don't, fret not; the next latest and greatest will probably be available elsewhere next week, and the week after that. It's a great time to be into audio with so many options available.

It seems many are enjoying their Crimsons or their time spent listening to it, so let's get back to that

 

[tamtrum]

Has anyone tried Crimson with the flash acoustics cables? Wondering how that pairs up.

 

[kaeswiss]

I have a pair of Elysian Diva that I really love but want something that is a little more comfortable. Has anyone here tried the fit of both the Symphonium Crimson vs the Monarch Mk3? Debating which one to get as both seem very popular

Prior to getting the Crimson, I was using the Diva with the stock Spinfit tips and they were never comfortable for long listening sessions. The fit was ok, but I always felt pressure buildup. Now I'm using the Diva with the Divinus Velvet tips that came with the Crimson. No more pressure buildup!

As for the fit of the Crimson, they're smaller shells so they fit my ears better than the Diva. I haven't tried the Monarch mk3, but I've read that the Hype 2 have a similar shape/size and those fit me better than the Diva as well. No pressure buildup issues.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

We want our audience to listen to Crimson with an open mind and formulate their own impressions and thoughts, so we decided to not reveal the configuration until after CanJam SoCal.

With SoCal CanJam over do we hear drum-roll?

 

[tamtrum]

With SoCal CanJam over do we hear drum-roll?

Looks like Zeppelin & Co has a webpage open for Crimson: https://zeppelinandco.com/collections/earphones/products/symphonium-crimson

Neat! I wouldn't have even guessed correctly after comparing Crimson to Helios.

 

[nihalsharma]

Friends, enough with the talks on whats inside those Crimson shells. Let’s talk the real talk. To all those who own Crimson, please put some comparisons with other iems - which are in its price range +- 300usd. I am interested in it’s comparison with iems as - Noble Sultan/Kublai Khan, U12t, Mest3 etc. I know they are quite above the price of Crimson, but is Crimson capable enough to reach/scale such sound?

 

[galthepal]

Prior to getting the Crimson, I was using the Diva with the stock Spinfit tips and they were never comfortable for long listening sessions. The fit was ok, but I always felt pressure buildup. Now I'm using the Diva with the Divinus Velvet tips that came with the Crimson. No more pressure buildup!

As for the fit of the Crimson, they're smaller shells so they fit my ears better than the Diva. I haven't tried the Monarch mk3, but I've read that the Hype 2 have a similar shape/size and those fit me better than the Diva as well. No pressure buildup issues.

Perfect, exactly what I was looking for. How do you like the Crimson compared to the Diva? I'm mainly looking for a second IEM I can be a little rougher with since the Diva durability is a concern.

 

[Smirk 24]

Friends, enough with the talks on whats inside those Crimson shells. Let’s talk the real talk. To all those who own Crimson, please put some comparisons with other iems - which are in its price range +- 300usd. I am interested in it’s comparison with iems as - Noble Sultan/Kublai Khan, U12t, Mest3 etc. I know they are quite above the price of Crimson, but is Crimson capable enough to reach/scale such sound?

Crimson is equivalent to or better than U12t IMO. Preferences aside, it trades blows in the technicalities department. Imaging, soundstage, resolution, you name it.

 

[osocan]

Friends, enough with the talks on whats inside those Crimson shells. Let’s talk the real talk. To all those who own Crimson, please put some comparisons with other iems - which are in its price range +- 300usd. I am interested in it’s comparison with iems as - Noble Sultan/Kublai Khan, U12t, Mest3 etc. I know they are quite above the price of Crimson, but is Crimson capable enough to reach/scale such sound?

I compared it with my MEST II when making the purchase. Just my impression between the 2:

MEST is more holographic and therefore gives the impression of a more expansive soundstage. It is also brighter and less bassy. MEST also seems to have its bass “dislocated” from the trebles when compared to the Crimson.

OTOH, the Crimson is more bassy and less bright compared to MEST II. More balanced. The music seems more homogenous as well. Is this what they mean by coherent?

If I may imagine their sound as a 4-inch hamburger, Crimson is the one where the hamburger is compressed before you put it into your mouth whereas MEST is eating the 4-inch without squeezing it. This is not to say which is better but that’s the imagery that went through my mind when I compared the 2.