[Ularewolf]

Does anyone know if CompUSA (in real life, not online) has a policy where you can return a product within like 7 days and get a full refund? Because if not, I don't think I'm going to buy them, I don't want to take the chance and then I'm disappointed and throw them in the garbage.

 

[Target1]

I apologize for the digressoin here, I am aiding in this thread getting off topic, but I had to respond. I promise not to post again in this vein, though one more reply from MakubexGB would be great.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MakubexGB How would you know EVERY Player that can be better than your acquaintance is not using cheap Sony's and are in top clans around the world? You can't come to that kind of conclusions because you don't know. As hard as you may find it to believe, not every good player participates in tournaments or belongs to a clan. He might go pubbing one day and find himself getting a woop-ass by some kid with cheap Sony's that's really good. Again, although good phones help, they don't make the gamer. You do not need expensive headphones to be really good, but like I said, they do help.

There is a big difference between a good player, and a player that has the option to go pro. A VERY big difference. Top end gamers are just like professional athletes. There are TONS of fantastic gamers out there, that are amazing when playing in their lan games, and on their favorite server on the net. However, against a true pro that plays several hours each day with team speak, with a team, its another level. You can say that there exists a some 17 year old playing in his basement with his cheap sonys thats better, but that's akin to saying that although Professional tennis players are good there's probably a couple guys around the world that just play for fun with their friends that are better. It just isn't true. Gaming is like a job to people like my friend. They train whether they feel like playing or not. He doesn't play online in regular servers anymore. It just isn't fun. Further, if you have watched some of the webcasts of amazing players and say "it doesn't look that hard," again the tennis analogy comes into play. When you watch a pro tennis match its easy to say "I could hit most of those back." However, when someone serves to you, and the ball is moving at 120 miles per hour good luck. I'm sorry, but whether you agree or not I'm pretty sure that ANYONE out there that has taken the time and put in the 1000's of hours to be at the level my friend is at will NOT be playing with cheap sonys. They will be another dedicated clan member to a top clan in the world that has the option of making a living playing CS.

Mark

 

[Ularewolf]

No offense to your friend, but it's easy to get good at FPS games. I have done it a lot already, and I never had amazing headphones or speakers, but I still did plenty good against great players, not in CS, but other FPS games like UT (the first one). You don't have to play 1000s of hours to get to your friends level. All you need is broadband or T1 or LAN whatever, and concentration. Then you can be a great FPS player. If your heart is not into it, of course you'll never be good.

Ok, that's off topic but that's my oppinion, it's not the sound, it's your determination in games. There can be deaf players that kick ass in CS or other FPS.

 

[MakubexGB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Target1 I apologize for the digressoin here, I am aiding in this thread getting off topic, but I had to respond. I promise not to post again in this vein, though one more reply from MakubexGB would be great. There is a big difference between a good player, and a player that has the option to go pro. A VERY big difference. Top end gamers are just like professional athletes. There are TONS of fantastic gamers out there, that are amazing when playing in their lan games, and on their favorite server on the net. However, against a true pro that plays several hours each day with team speak, with a team, its another level. You can say that there exists a some 17 year old playing in his basement with his cheap sonys thats better, but that's akin to saying that although Professional tennis players are good there's probably a couple guys around the world that just play for fun with their friends that are better. It just isn't true. Gaming is like a job to people like my friend. They train whether they feel like playing or not. He doesn't play online in regular servers anymore. It just isn't fun. Further, if you have watched some of the webcasts of amazing players and say "it doesn't look that hard," again the tennis analogy comes into play. When you watch a pro tennis match its easy to say "I could hit most of those back." However, when someone serves to you, and the ball is moving at 120 miles per hour good luck. I'm sorry, but whether you agree or not I'm pretty sure that ANYONE out there that has taken the time and put in the 1000's of hours to be at the level my friend is at will NOT be playing with cheap sonys. They will be another dedicated clan member to a top clan in the world that has the option of making a living playing CS. Mark

Well that's just your OPINION. That is just what you think. Just like you are "pretty sure that ANYONE out there that has taken the time and put in the 1000's of hours to be at the level my friend is at will NOT be playing with cheap sonys. They will be another dedicated clan member to a top clan in the world that has the option of making a living playing CS.", I say that whether you agree or not I'm pretty sure there are amazing players that don't play for a living and can beat players that are at your acquaintance's level using cheap Sonys. There are probably people as good as the Pros that train every day but just have not been recruited by a clan because of different reasons, like for example: maybe they haven't been noticed, maybe people think they are just hacking, maybe they are not interested in being in a clan, etc. Just because a "True Pro", like you call them, plays with a team with team speak doesn't make him better, that only helps him when he's playing with his team. I'm talking about a single player. IMO the best player is the one that goes into any server with a bunch of people that never communicate and does not have pre-planned-team-strategies and still be the best. That "True Pro" that you talk about may be good when playing with his team, but doesn't mean he is the best when he is alone.
Now, about that Tennis player... Well there is no way to really know is there? There could be a non-pro Tennis player that trains every day that's at Pro level, who knows? But it is a LOT LESS likely that there is than a FPS player because of a lot of reasons, like: It's not as easy to get up in the morning and start training in Tennis as in FPS games, It's harder to learn to play Tennis well without a trainer than FPS games (no trainer needed), it's a lot harder to find people to train with in Tennis than in FPS games (especially people that are really good), in Tennis not only do you have to train every day you also have to stay in great physical shape, is a lot harder to get noticed as a great player in FPS games than Tennis (especially when there are hacks all around),etc., etc. The Tennis analogy just doesn't work. Like Ularewolf said: " it's not the sound, it's your determination in games. There can be deaf players that kick ass in CS or other FPS."

I'm also sorry for this off-topic post. Just wanted to leave Target one last feedback like he requested.

 

[Target1]

Good luck with your Surround Sound Discussion. I genuinely hope that they are all you dream they are, and that you get them and write a rave review immediately followed by 100's of audiophiles and gamers everywhere buying surround sound headphones because that break through has finally come. To continue the gaming discussion I started a new thread in the members lounge.



http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...84#post1264984


Mark

 

[KGT]

Regarding Ularewolf's question, I DO have a set of LTB's and they do work. The reason they work is that they do not simulate surround as many other headphones do. They will give you surround if the game or movie has surround. In the case of music, it will simply bypass 2 of the 3 drivers in each ear and give you stereo.

As for who designed them, I am not sure, but it does not matter. As previously posted, all companies once started small. There are plenty of HUGE companies that were unknown at one point. There are also many inventions that if everyone had considered gimmicks would not exist. There are plenty of people who at one point considered computers "gimmicks" with no real value. How wrong were they?

That all being said, you can't judge all products by just one or what you have heard about some. Try them and then speak based on fact not hearsay.

In short I HAVE USED LTB'S, I like them and think they work fine. That is my opinion and yours may differ. Everyone is free to have their own opinion, but it is nice to be able to back up what you say with facts and the only way to do that is to have tried something.

Wolf - good luck in whatever you buy. There are online companies that have LTB's and Compusa should take returns but check with them. If you are unsure of what to get, check some sites on the web to see if USB or AC97's are best for you. Pcrite.com has info on both as does LTB's site.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KGT In short I HAVE USED LTB'S, I like them and think they work fine. That is my opinion and yours may differ. Everyone is free to have their own opinion, but it is nice to be able to back up what you say with facts and the only way to do that is to have tried something.

what other headphones have you heard? how do they compare with others in that price range? how would you describe its sonic characteristics?

 

[Target1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax what other headphones have you heard? how do they compare with others in that price range? how would you describe its sonic characteristics?

What he said.

Target

With emphasis on side by side comparison on other headphones you have used.

 

[mattpwill]

All you naysayers (I'm one of them - to the theory when used with games compared to HRTF) are just as bad, you don't give good backup either.

We should try and get a magazine to make a big supertest of surround sound headphones without the Zalmans lol. That would be a good seller for them, and will keep us happy

 

[MakubexGB]

You guys just don't get it. KGT doesn't compare the LTB Surround headphones with other headphones because he is not saying that they are better than any other headphones. He is just telling you that unlike a lot of you guys said, the 5.1 Surround Sound in this specific headphones is not a "gimmick" and it does actually work. That the phones do have 6 speakers in each can and it does produce 5.1 surround sound. They do not simulate surround. Whether the quality of the sound is better than other headphones on the same price range is another matter.

 

[Ularewolf]

Thank you KGT for that. I'm pretty sure the USBs would be better, I only have an integrated SC. And how does it sound in games, and is it much more realistic?

 

[KGT]

Ularewolf, I also use the USB model and am very happy with it. On games you can hear things comming up behind you and the sound follows objects on the screen. Gunfire is very realisic since you hear the initial fire and then the echo going into the background. As for movies, it definately adds dimension to them. Personally I like them for what they do and offer. I have the new style with inline volume control as opposed to the older model that used the windows volume control. I found that the newer style produced a richer sound. Again good luck with whatever you buy and let us know what you think.



Regarding comparisons that were requested earlier, I have none since they would be unfair. The LTB's have a specific purpose, that is surround sound for games and DVD's. If I were to compare them to standard stereo headphones that would be unfair as both serve a different purpose. Information about the headphones and drivers are listed on the sites I mentioned earlier. That should give you more of the technical information.

 

[Hamsterball_Z]

I think the comparison would be quite fair. We're arguing about what it takes to get a realistic three dimensional sound in a headphone. You say it takes multiple drivers and we say it doesn't. So lets put some side by side and see. Circuit City has these:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Centr...oductDetail.do

If they have them in the store I can pick them up and test them. How's that?

 

[Ularewolf]

It would only be fair if you tested in games, since we already know that SS headphones can't compare to stereo in music. And those, I never heard of them so you can't say they'll be good. The drivers don't even have I.S.C (Independant Sound Chambers) like LTB does. You can still compare them though if you want, against same pricing stereo phones.

 

[Enverxis]

Ularewolf, KGT and MakubexGB;
With all due respect to your opinions and posts.

All the Current Consumer level surround sound headphones with exclusion to the Zalman and Pioneer ones use EXACTLY the same driver structure, they have EXACTLY the same Frequency Response, EXACTLY the same Ohm Impedence on each driver and Pretty much Identical specs, and looking at that spec chart sheet that MakubexGB whacked in there - most of that information is useless as ****. As Target1 Stated before, they are a step up over the cheapo headphones - which I state here in my first 20 posts in Headfi with the Medusa's.

After a few hundred more posts and 6ish months of Headfi and experiencing various Headphones across the board I have come to the conclusion that Surround Sound Headphones are indeed a waste of money for the price/performance ratio in both games, music and general use.

The Speedlink Medusa Headset had great build quality and comfort - and performed for games, but it wasnt worth the price. For what I payed ~$150 in a group buy of three (the headphone alone + shipping was ~$220AU)
For that price I could have got at the time, a pair of Alessandro MS-1, Sennheiser 212Pro or Beyerdynamic DTX800 (from Australia) for gaming primary and music secondary and I probably would have been very happy with them over the Medusa's.

these "LTB 5.1 Headphones" you say are $60US. Okay. Now I have no doubt that if you bought these and they worked, they would sufficiently suit your gaming needs. Any Surround Sound Headphone bar the Zalmans I imagine most gamers would be fine with, the Medusa was a bitch to set up correctly however, so that proved inconvenient for one of the people that bought them and he ended up getting a simple pair of Altec Lansings with a mic just because you could plug them straight in. Therefore these LTB 5.1 Headphones being USB would be handy for the average gamer indeed.

However, in order to get sufficient Surround Sound from one of these headphones you would need EAX / Sensaura / A3D or Dolby Surround to provide effective surround sound in games, some games do not provide this.
Also having a USB sound card I dont believe that the headphone would work correctly with EAX etc, and just use software sound.

No I have not heard the LTB 5.1 Headphones - However these are my prejudgements based on the experience and knowledge I have gained from this site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakubexGB Yes, I agree with you. The LTB 5.1 headphones are not even close to being better than headphones like the A900. That's why the LTB cost about $60 and the A900 $200. I'm just saying that it doesn't mean they totally suck for GAMING like some people say. Not everyone has to spend $200+ on headphones to be a good gamer. Not everyone is an audiophile, so not everyone will notice the HUGE difference you guys do. Although good phones help, they don't make the gamer. There's probably people out there with "sony cheap cans" that can woop the floor with your friend.

There are better headphones around for gaming based on my previous points for that price range.

Seriously Ularewolf - go pick yourself up a pair of Koss KSC-75s for and try them out. IMO these are the perfect starting headphone for gaming or music and they sound better than most headphones in that price range and dont be fooled by the $20 price tag.
They Sound better than the medusa's do for music, the Medusa's out do them for games because of a fake 3D soundstage.
If your after a gaming headphone for the price range - get the Beyerdynamic DTX800s!!!! They sound great and have a better soundstage and better positioning than any surround sound headphones would.

Sure this KGT person might say they are good but he hasnt compared them to either of these products and I would put money that the Speedlink Medusa and the LTB 5.1 would sound fairly well similar.