[Elephas]

Anything regarding Grado Labs dealers is between Grado Labs and the dealers, and have nothing to do with Head-Fi members. I'm disappointed with the implication that Head-Fi members are somehow obligated to keep the HF-1 a "secret" and that they should only be bought and sold within the community. If anyone thinks that news of the HF-1 would not have reached those dealers if everyone sold them only on Head-Fi, they are sadly mistaken.

I'm sad that Head-Fi members who bought the HF-1 are being blamed for the unlikelihood of another HF series headphone. I assume the real issue is that Grado Labs dealers are not happy with being cut out of the loop. Selling HF-1's on eBay, here, or anywhere else is not the issue.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd You see, Grado labs has many dealers who sell to the general public and they were not given these headphones. They were sold exclusively through TTVJ and exclusively to Head-Fi members. By selling them on E-Bay, the general public was made aware of them and thus the dealers also became aware of them. This has caused a problem as many of these dealers were around long before Head-Fi was in existance. I personally feel a trust was betrayed - maybe not intentionally but still it happened.

I just can't believe Grado Labs wasn't aware that they'd show up on eBay. After all, it took merely a quickie forum signup in order to purchase a pair. Five minutes of time and anyone in the world could own a pair.

Also, there were no instructions by Grado stating they'd prefer the headphones not be sold on eBay or outside the head-fi community. There were no guidelines whatsoever.

Sorry... I ain't buyin' this one (pun intended).

P.S. Elephas, I agree with everything you said.

 

[Zorander]

I was one of those people who wanted to get one of these but could not at the time due to lack of budget. With little chance of a HF-2 appearing (and ridiculously jacked-up prices on used HF-1), I don't see myself ever owning anything like this.

 

[PFKMan23]

Not to beat a dead horse but in actual fact, you didn't even have to de a member of Headfi to buy the HF-1. I can say for certain that I never mentioned or was questioned about my HeadFi membership. And yes if that was a requirement, it was quick enough obstacle to overcome. And that doesn't even go into the fact that Headfi is a public forum where anyone can read and find out about the HF-1. And yes I do agree that it is naive to think that it would have totally been kept under wraps.

I also remember the thread early on in the release of the HF-1s, that in effect asked , "How long would it take for the HF-1 to show up on Ebay?". And when pairs finally did show up on ebay there was an uproar, to this day that hasn't been stop. Now admittedly so, John Grados feelnigs are justified that he did make the HF-1 for a specific community, but to think that it somehow wouldn't happen is IMO way too oblivious to reality.

I mean peole are saying keep this in the family, but what if ssomeone does (and knowing the laws of supply and demand) decides to cahrge a premium...

 

[Voodoochile]

I don't see this as any blame being laid anywhere. Rather, I read it as Todd simply saying that the project ended up resulting in quite a bit of friction being developed between other Grado Dealers and TTVJ/Grado Labs. They probably feel a bit sleighted for not being given an opportunity to sell the HF-1.

Making a lower than normal margin, coupled with having to deal with some irate Grado dealers... probably makes a repeat performance unlikely. If I was either Todd or John, I'd probably not be any too anxious to go through it again.

It seems to me that this is simply an explanation as to why there will not likely be an HF-2. Laying blame at this point does nothing to change history. If any Head-Fi members feel guilt, there isn't anything Todd or John could do about that. I bought a pair, and still have them, and I sure don't feel any responsibility for the troubles that this release caused. I also don't think that anyone who sold theirs on ebay feel any remorse. If they did not like the HF-1 enough to keep it, or sell it within the Head-Fi community, then they also probably don't care about any possible HF-2 release. After all, anyone could have sold their HF-1 within the Head-FI FS/FT forum, and would still make a tidy profit... without having to go out to ebay. Typically is seems that something heads off to ebay if there is no interest within the community.

I'm not tying to defend Todd here, just tossing in my perspective on the points being asserted here. To each his own, and I wish you all well on your respective paths.

 

[shuurajou]

I understand it's an explanation as to why it may not happen again. But the reasons it may not happen again must have obviously applied when launching the HF-1 - but that went ahead. I find it a bit confusing really. If we were just told "the retailers are mad at john for selling a secret headphone to one community that's so popular" that's fine, but I feel like we're being told it's our fault that the things listed below happened - I mean - it's obvious right? I'm not being ungrateful, I just feel a little - let down that maybe John feels negatively about the community now? As if we've insulted him?

• Headphones got sold on eBay: Obviously that was going to happen. No matter how precious an item there is always some people that are in it for the money.
• Public found out about it: Head-fi members talk to humans outside of the forum and talk about headphones - obviously that would happen.
• Retailers know: Retailers tend to know what they're suppliers sell right? To make sure they got what they want.

I just - I get the impression that the 3 things listed above somehow weren't expected?

Again, this isn't an insult or a jab or such, just, saying how I feel. I love my HF-1's and wish again to thank Todd & John for all the trouble they took to make it happen for us. There are many people here who are so greatful and happy with the headphones - hopefully you both know not to think of us all as the few who sold their headphones outside the community.

 

[The Monkey]

To have not realized that a special, limited edition headphone would be resold is simply naive. In fact, I'm surprised how few instances of this have occurred. I think that Head-Fiers have used the HF-1 as intended as well or better than anyone could reasonably have expected. Also, it is not wise, for reasons I'd rather not go into here, for a manufacturer/retailer to suggest that the end user cannot do with a product as he or she pleases.

 

[Skylab]

I don't think it's realistic to "blame" head-fi members, but I see where Grado is coming from. If I were one of their regular dealers, I'd be mad too. Real mad. 500 pairs of headphones has to be quite a few, and this is 500 sales that their traditional dealers were not able to get. I work in a different industry, but we sell through dealers, and as I run sales for my company, I deal with this sort of issue every day. Bypassing your traditional reseller channel is dicey business. If you are not happy with your dealers, that's one thing. But if in general you are, it's wise not to upset them. Grado is a good brand, but it doesn't have the power that other brands do.

It's unfortunate in some ways that it puts such a nice gesture as what the HF-1 was in jeopardy, but it's how the world works.

 

[shuurajou]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab It's unfortunate in some ways that it puts such a nice gesture as what the HF-1 was in jeopardy, but it's how the world works.

Sadly. Hence I am moving to mars

.

 

[Todd]

I Take personal offense to be called naive. I also think that there are some ways to behave and not to behave and I feel that almost ALL of the Head-Fiers that received the headphones acted appropriately. That may be the way some in the world work but it is not how I operate. It is a real shame that most members may have to suffer for the actions of a few but then I look at these responses and say that maybe it isn't worth it to go the extra mile when you don't think that YOU have to.
Now I am mad - after reading some of these responses. I am going to take some time, cool down and continue with my response later...

Todd

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Now I am mad - after reading some of these responses. I am going to take some time, cool down and continue with my response later... Todd

That makes two of us.

 

[Todd]

I also want to make it clear I am speaking for TTVJ - not Grado Labs.

P.S. I am not Naive anymore!!!

Todd

 

[bhd812]

Edited....I am sure you people could REad what I typed here threw the emails...

 

[shuurajou]

I think most people just feel that (I can at last speak for myself) Grado & TTVJ may think badly of the head-fi community as a whole because of a few ungrateful people. That we're looked apon badly and unappreciative of the huge thing they did for us. I don't want either of them to look back when they think of the HF-1 and the first thing to pop into their heads to be "eBaying scum" but to be all the praise and to realise how special a gift it was to the community. It just makes me really upset to think that we'll be thought of badly because of those idiots.

I don't think anybody here doubts how much hard work and dedication went into the HF-1. I just think the case is that we don't want to be thought of badly beacuse of a few idiots, that we don't want Todd or John to think we didn't appreciate it, nor that don't understand (or at least try to) how much hard work it took, and we don't want any thoughts of something like this in the future to be smashed because of a few idiots when the majority really do appreciate the hard work done for this. The eBaying was bound to happen - and it was sickening it did, but this isn't anybodys fault but person eBaying them and I don't think it's fair to make the eBayers actions reflect on the whole community. I think it's fair to say that those people are not true members of the head-fi community or they would not have done this and ruined it for everybody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey Also, it is not wise, for reasons I'd rather not go into here, for a manufacturer/retailer to suggest that the end user cannot do with a product as he or she pleases.

IMO - I think that's a case of morality. It's a community headphone made for the community. It's obvious that the creator didn't wish to be spat in the face as they handed head-fiers a generous gift. But like I said - those who sold are not truely apart of this community, because a community isn't just about you, it's about everyone in it.

I know companies like Blizzard have created T&C's which have stopped the selling of game content online before - maybe Grado/TTVJ could create some sort of T&C's when purchasing so that eBay will remove any auctions seen as they did with Blizzard products.

 

[DRSpeed85]

Reminds me of Ferrari's situation with their limited edition cars. The Enzo appeared on ebay for 1.2 million euros a while ago which is almost 50% more than the original price. All this despite Ferrari hand picking the people they want to sell these cars to because profit margins for these are very slim. They make it for handfull of their their billionaire fans.

What Ferrari does is to code each model and record which individual bought the car. If there is a breach in the terms of purchase -selling them at all is a breach- then you are not qualified to buy a future limited edition. So far there has been 5, the 288 GTO, F40, F50, Enzo and FXX.

I think a similar system might work for a future limited edition headphone. Also there could be more requirements like certain number of posts or status. I dont think people will go as far as making fake posts. There could be a software to prevent that too.

And yes, I am likening Grado as Ferrari of headphones. LOL