[lextek]

No one is devaluing skill/labor. It's just the almost doubling in price in a matter of a few weeks. Maybe if there was a response from Fix-up?

 

[puppyslugg]

This is about business. If fixup can get $125 for his mini amp, good for him. Those who are upset with his price hike, will have to find another amp. IMO, there are better options for that price, anyway.

 

[jpelg]

Piss and moan, piss and moan. Some of you guys are cry babies.

Statements like "this was a disasterous PR decision", or "I will remember...I won't purchase from him again", "that's not the customer's responsibility to pay that $50 extra for a product that in the long run is inferior and less professional", and "IMO, there are better options for that price, anyway" - What?. I'm sure Fixup has enough business to take him into the next year. If you really feel that his product is so inferior, then why go thru the bother of putting so much energy into such posts? Just vote with your wallet and be done with it. The open market will determine his ultimate success. In comparison to Fixup's (and other DIY-ers) amps, the Airhead's value is extremely questionable at it's full price of $119-199. It can only be gotten at $99 with the purchase of a pair of cans. Nothing commercial comes close to the DIY-ers in terms of quality::$$ and options.

Antness, see erix's post for some great points.

"This, on the other hand, is the equivalence of a bait-and-switch advertisement." This would be true only if the product initially advertised never existed or was never sold to anyone. This is not true. Many early adopters here have and love their little amps. Seems a bit like sour grapes.

I think you all do Xin a disservice in your accusations. He has proven to be reliable and upstanding in his business practices. The fact is that this amp was initially released barely at cost with little regard for his time. Whether is was always in his design to raise the price after market interest heated up or not, is up for debate. Perhaps if he, who seems to have strived to keep prices down for so long, was not so publicly made an example of when HFi's moderators finally decided to exercise their power and enforce their rules, and made to feel that his efforts were not appreciated, he would not have decided to go with the open market and all it allows. I don't blame him. This is about business, because you all made it about business. Now live with it.

Was anyone ripped off? Was anyone violated? Would anyone else here not have done the same? No. No. And no.

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally posted by jpelg ....Perhaps if he, who seems to have strived to keep prices down for so long, was not so publicly made an example of when HFi's moderators finally decided to exercise their power and enforce their rules, and made to feel that his efforts were not appreciated, he would not have decided to go with the open market and all it allows. I don't blame him. This is about business, because you all made it about business. Now live with it....

Cue the violin and cry me a river: jpelg, please tell me I'm wrong in interpreting that part of your post as blaming this price increase on the moderators (and/or me). I have no problem with the guy raising his prices -- I really do not find the price increase the least bit offensive or shocking. But to suggest that he was made some special example by any of the moderators (read: me) is ridiculous. Other commercial interests were treated exactly the same (threads closed, posts deleted and/or edited). They just didn't react with accusations/suggestions of impropriety or lack of ethics on the part of me or the other moderators. When that sort of suggestion is made, do you not expect a response? I suggest you read all related past threads again before you suggest that the closing of that thread had anything to do with it.

I have no idea why he raised his prices. I really don't care that he did. Do I think it was unethical? No. What he charges is his business. Do I think it was underhanded in any way? Nope. Do I think your suggestion that his price increases are somehow the fault of moderators (read: me) because he was made to "feel that his efforts were not appreciated" is a silly argument? Yup.

Here's a paragraph by Fixup that I've quoted before: Quote:

[size=small]....I can eat the hottest food that you can never even touch. I designed my super mini, only because I could no longer let people be ripped off by those stuff that are not even close. As you mentioned, nobody else can do it yet and I could easily sell my super mini for $$$. I raised the price from $60 to $80 only once, only try to reduce flooding orders. As you can see, most members here still consider $80 is still a very good deal for such a killer amp. I have the monopoly, but I still keep the price so low. Why? I'm a nice guy, a cowboy. It is that simple. Think about it....[/size]

Read it. He explains why he raised the price from $60 to $80 for his super mini. Maybe it applies here, too.

 

[LTUCCI1924]

HI all' I keep reading that there are better options. There are? Yeah you can get a much bigger amp for less money. I a/b the mini 9 volt with my Max Out META42 and yes the META sounded better but not a hole lot better. The mini and super mini are just that mini and super mini. Where else do you get that small an amp for any price? I had whats now 200.00 amp that was no where near as good as the mini. So far I have bought a mini for my wife and a super mini for me at 80.00 each but if they would heaved cost then 125.00 and if I wanted a mini or super mini then I would not hesitate to pay 125.00 for the convince and quality of the mini or super mini. My super mini is + 10 db and my wife is sending in her mini that is + 5 db for fixup to adjust to + 10 db. When she gets her mini back at + 10 I will a/b it with my META again. Fixup told me if I don't like the super mini then send it back and get the mini. I call that service. One last thing. How many of you who own amps can put them in your shirt pocket?

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by erix So What? I don't know about other builders-for-hire but for me my time is valuable. I don't know how JMT, Eric, Tangent, Antness, and others find time for all the building they do for others. My list of things to do is continually growing and building an amp for someone takes time away from things like family and recreation.

Well, I don't. I realized that I'd have to ask something like $50/hr+ for labor to compensate for the time it takes - so I stopped taking orders so I could focus on schoolwork and other projects, and maybe once I've gotten everything under control or school has gotten out for the summer (guess which one's more likely?

) then maybe I'll be able to get back into DIYFSE...

What I think isn't really commonly known is that DIYFSE takes TIME!!! It's not simply soldering a coupla chips on a PCB and slapping it in a case; pre-drilled faceplates and board-mount components are a luxury we don't have.

Quote:

Perhaps Fixup calculated what he was really making with each of those amps sold. Perhaps he found out he was making $1.98 / hr?

For the kind of workmanship that I saw in the posted pics, and the size of the amps, and the amount of time protoboard takes... That's probably not far from the truth.

Quote:

Isn't someone's time and workmanship worth SOMETHING?

I certainly hope it is. The point of DIY (and DIYFSE) is not to save money; it's to get something that's unique and better than what you could get in a store. Whether the 'something' is the smallest headphone amplifier availible for any price on these boards, or a damn-near-indestructable home amp customized and tweaked to your system.

Quote:

So you can buy an Airhead for <$100. You get an amp that is AC-coupled with tiny little caps in the signal path. You get a crossfeed and a green LED in a case made for a radar detector. Congratulations - it's just like everybody else's Airhead. Double that amount with the Total Airhead and you get better caps in the signal path as well as some better resistors. Does it sound twice as good?

Well, not double. +$70

Quote:

They were both made by machines.

Not true, unless college students count as machines. Studying may be bad for your mind, but it's not THAT bad

Quote:

They both contain parts purchased in large quanity with substantial cost savings. They are both marketed and sold by a very fine company formed especially for the purpose of providing amps to the masses. I don't want to get into the concept of worth - especially in an audiophile setting. No one in this house should throw stones... You paid how much for that hospital-grade duplex outlet? Those little pointy feet do what?

How many people in the $50 VD thread got Nite cables for *everything*?

(A Nite power cord is ~$1500)

Quote:

If it sounds good to you, fine, buy it. If you feel it costs too much for what it sounds like, don't buy it. Just don't come here and devalue a persons skills and product simply because you don't like the price.

Well said.

Quote:

I don't want this to sound like support or endorsement for Fixup because it is not. I find his commercial posts in this forum a bit troubling - especially when other members have been reprimanded for doing so. I don't support them either. [/B]

Same here - and I do hope my comments above won't be interpreted as commercial, because they're not meant that way.

 

[martioz]

$125 for this amp....

Lets quote all parts...estimate only

schematic widely available from this forum or Headwize - free
by the way Mini is copy of the META 42 except power supply.
amp case, RS 4*AAA bat case $1.5
op amps, free if you request sample, $15 if you decide to buy them
resistors $.1 in small quantities
caps $10, about
led $3 or less
pot - no idea...
the total would be about $40 plus your time.
fun you have putting part together in a bonus
IMO $125 for the amp like this is a massive rip off...

 

[andrzejpw]

Martioz:

Although I agree, $125 is a big price increase to swallow, but I really have to say: actually making an amp has really made me take a different look on things. Building my meta took a LOT of time. I spend around 3 hours soldering, and 1-2 more hours casing it, testing it, etc. Now, I'm obviously not a master DIY builder: yet, so let's say tangent, eric, etc, could build an amp in 3 hours. How much should they get for their work? $15 an hour? $20? $25? Ultimately, its you, the consumer, that decides. If you don't want to pay for their work, then you go somewhere else. Same thing applies with fixup.

 

[eric343]

I would certainly hope he buys his opamps. Making money off samples is just wrong.

And I believe the schem is a modified version of the META42.

So, it's $1.5 for the case, $15+ for the chips, $10 for the caps, $3 for the LED, $5 (let's call it) for the pot, $10 for the plug/wires, $3 for the protoboard...

$47.5 in parts, thereabouts. So $77 labor, so assuming it takes 3 hours an amp (this is protoboard, remember), ~$25/hr. Quite reasonable, IMHO, for skilled labor like this. Your local locksmith will charge much more for something much less complex.

 

[Zanth]

I believe if this amp were initially offered at the present price, things would have been taken a lot differently. Some people may have budgeted enough money for the amp, then over night it jumps by $20. Twenty is not horrible, so maybe that person decides it is still worth it and budgets the extra cash. Overnight again it jumps $45 without explanation.

I am all over capitalism. If he wants to charge $5 billion for it, fine. I just won't buy it. The point I feel many are trying to make is the large increase in a short amount of time.

 

[williamgoody]

It's called price gouging, plain and simple. Whether it's justified or not is a different story.
It comes off as dramatic because of all the "publicity" he garnered for the amp in the first place, intentional and otherwise, and how he justified the "bang for the buck" this amp gave. If he really wanted to slow the order process he could have done what Eric343 and Tangent have done, and either stopped taking orders of lengthen the lead time.
Fixup strikes me as the type of guy who knows his profitability/cost ratio when he gets into something. Is it his right to raise the price?; of course. Is it wrong or illegal?; absolutely not; but I think it leave a lot of ill will, given his prior statements about the amp and why he was offering it for the price he charged.

 

[Zanth]

williamgoody: that is exactly my sentiments. Charge $125 initially and tell me it is still a great value for my dollar and I am all over it. The size is what appeals to me (super mini) but when the price jumps to over double in a short span...it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If I were building an amp I sure would want to get some cash for my time...is $15/hour a good value for this? $25? Sure I think so...but as you said...he must have known what was involved prior to beefing up the price to $125. At $80 it was some better components and to slow things down. Cool...but again like Eric343 did...he could have said...whoa there boys and girls...no more for a while or...wait 2-3 weeks. People are okay with waiting. Think of the pre-orders for the RKVs. Or the pre-orders for the Meier Preamp, or for Headmasters... waiting is not a big issue, many people get on the JMT waiting list for an amp...no sweat! But I don't see the price of JMT built amps jumping up in price over-night if he bites off more than he can chew.

 

[TripsRight]

I'm figuring his reason is what Jude quoted. Trying to reduce the # of orders because he's not a machine. One of the functions of price is that it is a rationing device, and I think that's exactly what he's trying to do (and it's obviously working pretty effectively). Maybe he's just sick of working on these things every night and wants some time for himself and to spend with the family. Heck he's probably already made as many in a month as some DIYFSE'ers make in a year. So, like eric343 was talking about, he calculated the cost of his free time and decided to price his amps accordingly so that he's got enough of it.

 

[williamgoody]

That's fine, and again there is nothing wrong with that. But realistically if that was the absolute goal, again the lead time could've been lengthened in order to give him that time. Time after time running up the price has proved more counterproductive for more businesses than anything else.
Zanth has also posted that the community he's dealing with primarily is a very patient one, one willing to wait for quality. He's not selling to the general unassuming public here.
I'm not questioning his motives, but given the business he runs personally I really can't believe he miscalculated his profit ratio.
Again it is his right, no qualms there, but I don't think it's smart.

One other thing, he trumpeted his amp with a public statement of price tying the two together, using it as a selling point, something the other Diy'ers have never done. To take that selling point and reverse fields like that is not good business sense.

 

[eric343]

And on that last point I agree with you - I think by running up the price like that, ESPECIALLY after saying he wanted to keep it low even though he could raise it, because he's a nice guy...

...that's just BEGGING for HORRIBLE publicity. Regardless of his reasons, ethical or not, he just made himself look very, very bad.