Summit-Fi Random Thoughts

[number1sixerfan]

I can't comment on the trade war $&#% because I'll get banned from my thread again, but I'll just say I'm not happy. I can't comment any more than that because somebody is reporting all

"Banned from my thread" just made me actually laugh out loud lolol.

Also, I'm partially posting here because I can't double post in my own thread. This is such a stupid thing lol. I think I'm landing on a used Grimm Audio MU1.. I've found two potential units are really good prices. I saw the Antipodes units and the consistency in impressions is really impressive--have you ever used anything else? It's just that the price tag was out of my budget. Thought I was gonna offload the Valkyria to pay for it, but idk that I can.

 

[protoss]

I can't comment on the trade war $&#% because I'll get banned from my thread again, but I'll just say I'm not happy. I can't comment any more than that because somebody is reporting all this $&%^. Some M@$! @$$&*^% is reporting all these posts.

Out of anyone, shouldn’t the assassins come after me, LOL?!

I see you there, Plywoodman, with your Sony R10s, wishing your items were half as good.
From the dawn of your works, you’ve been stealing and copying all the legends.

What about the torture mechanism from the Abyss, pounding with distortion spikes?

This is what is called modern? … praise the folly = summit-fi

All other headphones with treble, sibilance, and a price tag over $1000 = trash.

If your headphone has even one ounce of treble-spike and costs $4000 or more, rename your brand to “Snake-Oil-For-The-Win.”
Any other headphones that can’t control treble, sibilance, grain, and harshness—your products should just be $100.

But if you want to charge $18,000, just con the summit-fi audience; they believe in anything.
They don’t even realize that the HD600 has been endgame since 1997.

No product has overtaken the HD600/650! As of today…


protoss

 

[Exekuhtor]

No product has overtaken the HD600/650! As of today…

Thanks for your completely valuably input. Better let Fang Bian, Joe Skubinski and Alex Radisavljevic know how you feel, i'm sure they will drop their prices accordingly.
As for me, i will now throw away all my TOTL gear and get an HD650 despite hating it so much and cringe every time DMS shills the hell out of it, only because it's better than an Audivina.

 

[protoss]

i will now throw away all my TOTL gear and get an

Lets take a look at your gear.... oh... i feel sorry for you, yes, throw them all away.
And its called HD600, trying to be nice to the HD650 fans. I prefer only the HD600.

 

[draytonklammer]

Lets take a look at your gear.... oh... i feel sorry for you, yes, throw them all away.
And its called HD600, trying to be nice to the HD650 fans. I prefer only the HD600.

While they are nice headphones at their price point, I feel as though they lack a lot of what makes music music.
Heck, even looking within Sennheiser's own lineup, you'll find the HE90 and HE-1, both of which tend to have more positive feedback; albeit, hugely more expensive.

 

[protoss]

what makes music music.

What makes music music? Music can be found on any pair of headphones, to be honest. This is most likely a different conversation we are leading towards—one that is more philosophical and emotional. And with that summit-fi will be no-fi as everything is =

 

[TheAbyss2022]

After being in this hobby for a couple years now, contently upgrading and trying different headphones, different sound signatures, I have now found the type of sound I want going forward. It's interesting that I always thought to myself that more detail and technical performance will get me to closer to true endgame or to a point where I am satisfied with what I have and not looking at other products.

I dabbled with thinner and more technical orientated headphones over time. The HD800S was the first for this type of sound signature. Light bass and more focus on soundstage and detail. I would listen to it at first because it was impressive but as time moved on it became evident that my preference was highly orientated to the LCD X and then LCD 4. To put a long story short, the warmer, thicker and more emotional presentations are the ones the engage me more in the music and more suitable as more all rounder presentations compared to the genre specific thinner, colder and more technical headphones such as the HEKSE, Stax 009/009S.

My rotation is now LCD 4, LCD 24 & 2 Stax 007's. All warm, thicker presentations and with good bass. I will be getting the ES Lab ES-2A so we'll see where that takes me as it's my one shot at getting something close or perhaps better than an original Omega. I also really liked the Caldera when I heard it but I don't see a reason to own one if I have an LCD 4.

 

[protoss]

@TheAbyss2022

You got two of my favorite headphones: Stax SR-007 MK1 (705XX) & (71XXX)
you will get a protoss star

You know more about summit-fi than most of the people here LOL!

 

[chesebert]

IMO, the best combination for a great sound is a high-quality source with a reasonably priced amp that can meet the amplification needs of the cans you’re using. The cans should also have a neutral sound profile. This combination offers a good value for money and delivers an overall great sound. A high-quality source means great mastering on a high-quality medium like LP, SACD, or DSD files using top-notch electronics like a TOTL table, arm, cartridge, phono pre, DSD native dac, and SACD player. You will be way happier with that combo rather than buying bunch of expensive cans with their own "sound signature" using entry level amps, source electronics listening to streaming off of Qobuz.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

IMO, the best combination for a great sound is a high-quality source with a reasonably priced amp that can meet the amplification needs of the cans you’re using. The cans should also have a neutral sound profile. This combination offers a good value for money and delivers an overall great sound. A high-quality source means great mastering on a high-quality medium like LP, SACD, or DSD files using top-notch electronics like a TOTL table, arm, cartridge, phono pre, DSD native dac, and SACD player. You will be way happier with that combo rather than buying bunch of expensive cans with their own "sound signature" using entry level amps, source electronics listening to streaming off of Qobuz.

Interesting point. For me a good headphone is the one that able to help me connect deeper to the music (emotionally and enjoyment factor), therefore it's really depend on the sound signature of the headphone/speaker. "Just" a plain sounding headphone/speaker at most of the time do not deliver enough "rich" of emotion for me. I can appreciate some neutral headphones like AA Composer with decent SS amps, but only for short listening session.

At one time I tried to plug my ZMF Caldera to cheap Fiio R2R DAC/Amp and it was really a surprised that I still could enjoy my Caldera well, even though realism wise, not close to my system at home.

I'm fully agree that high quality of recording also play really big part to deliver the "emotion" from a song.

 

[number1sixerfan]

When it comes to tone/transparency, it really is just purely subjective. I can see someone arguing that a purely transparent headphone is most ideal from a purist standpoint, but that's simply a preference. Whatever you enjoy most is what is ideal.

And although I have high quality sources, files and chains, I definitely prefer having a suite of headphones with complementing signatures. As I am getting towards really the ultimate end of my journey in the hobby the # of cans I want to keep around is dwindling a bit, as I've found what I enjoy most and nearly maximized upgrades. But I get a ton of enjoyment cycling through headphones. It's actually what keeps things fresh + allows me to maximize matching the music/chain to current moods. Admittedly, a more transparent, detail popping headphone is my base favorite though.

The real key to this hobby is that there isn't a singular "right" philosophical way to go about it, for the most part (barring some basic exceptions such as you need a quality source, adequate amplification etc.).

 

[SolarCetacean]

IMO, the best combination for a great sound is a high-quality source with a reasonably priced amp that can meet the amplification needs of the cans you’re using. The cans should also have a neutral sound profile. This combination offers a good value for money and delivers an overall great sound. A high-quality source means great mastering on a high-quality medium like LP, SACD, or DSD files using top-notch electronics like a TOTL table, arm, cartridge, phono pre, DSD native dac, and SACD player. You will be way happier with that combo rather than buying bunch of expensive cans with their own "sound signature" using entry level amps, source electronics listening to streaming off of Qobuz.

I've heard of that approach referred to as "Linn philosophy" or the source-first approach. Abstractly, I like the concept; garbage-in, garbage-out, and every component downstream from the source can only hope to minimize the damage it does to the signal. I have experienced how an upgrade to the DAC made a bigger improvement to the sound than a more powerful amp. On the other hand, my experience is that the headphones (or transducers more generally) have the largest effect on the overall sound, so a transducer is most likely to be the bottleneck in the system. Dollar for dollar, a better headphone makes a bigger difference than a better DAC, plus headphones have a lower "cap" on prices than source gear does. A TOTL DAC would be wasted on headphones that aren't incisive enough to render all of the qualities in the source, or ears/brains that are not receptive to those qualities in the first place.

More fundamentally, what I've found is that music is the least fungible part of any playback chain. If you like a song for its music - its melodies and harmonies and instruments and songwriting, the stuff that exists on the sheet - you can't just replace the song with a different track, even one with better production quality. It would be ridiculous to say "Metallica is poorly mastered, so you should listen to Miles Davis instead" because Metallica and Miles Davis are different music; fans of one might not be fans of the other. I'd much rather listen to an enjoyable song with poor production quality than high-production-quality elevator music. Music isn't fungible and unless you have a ton of money to burn to convince a band to remaster and rerelease your favorite albums, that's not really practical even for a source-first approach.

 

[protoss]

A headphone with its own character can heighten the emotional connection to the user experience. This is concrete proof that all headphones—from $1 models to Summit-Fi "snake oil"—will always emotionally engage a user. If a particular headphone with its coloration makes the music feel warmer, more engaging, or simply more “alive” for you, that subjective experience is just as valid as objective neutrality. This further demonstrates that both neutrality and coloration are equal in terms of user engagement.

The ideal sound isn’t determined solely by isolated technical components; it’s the synergy between the source, amplification, and headphones that ultimately creates the listening experience. A system that is perfectly neutral or perfectly musical is always based on components that are chosen to complement each other. When it comes to neutrality versus musicality, it’s all an inherently personal and emotional experience. A high-quality source and a neutral headphone can reveal every nuance in a recording, but if those nuances don’t evoke an emotional response, they might fall flat. Sometimes, the “character” imparted by certain headphones can be the spark that transforms technical precision into a moving experience.

And the problem with the Summit-Fi audience is that most of the above are amateurs with deep pockets, getting the latest gear thinking they understand everything—but in reality, they understand nothing.

If you have Valkyrie, Abyss TC, and Raal, your gear list is next to trash. shot fire!

"A real summit-fier should have HD600 as the tool and the snake-oil headphone to test against."

 

[draytonklammer]

You may benefit from starting an alternative thread.
Title it: "Church of Protoss" or "Perceived Neutrality" -- perfect to spread your message without raining on our parade or stepping on toes repeatedly.
Even your way of thinking about neutrality is built to be challenged.

What is neutral?
For many folks, the definition of neutral is different from one another and potentially even everchanging as they age and grow.

From modern thinking, there are too many variables, not even including tuning, that could alter the sound of transducers built in a specific way.
Heck, transducer, and product runs have their own variance to take into account.
What's "agreed upon neutral" or "Harman neutral" for one user, may not be for another user.

I chased the "Harman donkey" and "Old Legends dragon" a couple of years back and found myself fairly dissatisfied.

There is no "high horse" when it comes to audio.
True hifi is the enjoyment of your music and friendships built along the way.

 

[Aetherhole]

You may benefit from starting an alternative thread.
Title it: "Church of Protoss" -- perfect to spread your message without raining on our parade or stepping on toes repeatedly.

I chased the "Harman donkey" and "Old Legends dragon" a couple of years back and found myself fairly dissatisfied.

Agreed and I’m adding another person to the ignore list. It’s fine and even encouraged to have our own preferences and opinion, but continually seeing “trash” associated with headphones/equipment that different from your preference is just unbecoming. I don’t mind voicing differing opinions, but not at the expense of others.