[el_matt0]

one thing thatll definitely be a factor in speaker choice is that i dont have a ton of room for these speakers to sit OUT from the wall, essentially I need something thatll sound decent if fairly close to the "front" wall. i understand speakers like the magnepans or martin logans would be a terrible choice because of this, as they need a good 3-4 feet at least behind them as well - definitely rules them out for me

 

[1Time]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif When you mentioned that nice, big room all I could think of were Magnepans. You would have plenty of room to let them breathe. I think there is a thread or two about them here, as well. Give them some thought.

No offense intended here, but Magnepans are definitely NOT the way to go for this OP. I guarantee these will not put out the type of sound you will be wanting, and they require a lot of from your amp.

 

[1Time]

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_matt0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif wait, so to clarify. should i be looking in the classifieds under monitors, or do i want some full-rangers? if im going to get a small sub as well like that HSU one, which do i want to go with, simple bookshelf/monitors instead of full ranges in that case?? my one question is, if i was to get a sub like the HSU STF-1, how do i "wire" it? assuming I go about building one of these simple gainclone amps in stereo configuration wiht a single PSU, wouldnt it only have 4 speaker taps as outputs (L+ L-, R+ R-)? Where would i hookup the sub...since my 840c definitely doesnt have sub-outs. I assume I wouldnt want to be using the speaker out on the back of the HSU to power my other speakers right...

You want a quality sound over quantity (and you'll be getting plenty of quantity anyway). You're limited in how powerful an amp you'll be getting. It's better to adequately power a pair of monitors with a sub powering itself than to underpower a pair of floor standers. Please post over at AVS for help with wiring and to answer ALL of your questions. No problem asking here, of course, but those guys are in the business over there, just like Head-Fi is in the business of headphones. The best advise over at AVS when anyone mentions headphones is to go post at Head-Fi. Likewise, the best advise at Head-Fi when asking about speakers or speaker amps is to post in a forum like AVS.

 

[1Time]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIPPOhifi /img/forum/go_quote.gif For amp: DIY Chip Amplifier Kits, PCB's, Components and Information. Cheap easly to build and sounds fantastic. For speakers (if you can push your budget a bit): Seas Odin MK3 Madisound Shopping Cart No sub required with these speakers, the dual 6.5" drivers have more clean bass then you would expect. This is my setup....

I don't doubt your statements here one bit, and I am sure that is one very fine sounding system. However, for rap and electronica music, it would be better for the bass to go very low, clean and thump. And this is best done with a subwoofer.

 

[1Time]

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_matt0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif hmm, ive got another thread going at the moment, but i think ive decided to go with a cambridge audio 840a as the amp, im not gunna diy it, the cambridge line just looks all too nice together . anyways, that puts out 120WPC @ 8 ohms and 200WPC @ 4ohms, so that definitely opens up my options quite a bit!

Choosing your amp before choosing your speakers is not the best strategy. It's similar to choosing your amp before choosing your headphones. That is not to say in the end you could not be thrilled with this selection. Just hold off on finalizing your amp selection until you get your speakers chosen.
Quote:

Originally Posted by el_matt0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was worried about the maggies being potentially a bit lacking in bass, although i do love the liquidy smooth mids and highs and the fantastic placement. my only other worry about the magnepans was that i hear they are VERY placement specific, and in my living room in particular, there isnt a whole ton of room to experiment with.

Ditch considering the maggies. I guarantee you would prefer the sound of conventional speakers over the maggies.
Quote:

Originally Posted by el_matt0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif suggestions on a good speaker ($1000 or under range) that will pair up well with the CA 840A? please note, my primary preference with these speakers IS that they have very good presentation in the mids and highs, however i do want there to be SOME decent oomph behind the bass, too lacking is always disappointing in a setup. I do do mostly listening to rock vocals and jazz though, stuff like belle and sebastian, wes montgomery

Unless you are buying new speakers, asking what speakers pair up well with that amp is an upside down way of proceeding. Your selection on pre-owned speakers is relatively limited. There are hundreds of different speakers people could suggest, yet perhaps only 5 or 10 non-new speakers worth considering that are within your budget at any one time.

Please advise if you have decided to open up your selection to include new speakers. Otherwise, the best way to get good advise on speakers is to find a selection of up to 10 speakers and list them at AVS and in other forums with the question, "which would be best for me?" But of course be sure to clearly spell out the type of sound you are looking for, your room characteristics and size, budget for an amp, the music you listen to, your preference for a monitor, your expected use of a sub, etc. just as you have done throughout this thread.

Your description here of wanting speakers that do well with rock vocals and jazz plus bass oomph best defines your need for a pair of monitors and a sub. If you would rather proceed with your selection of that amp, no problem, that can be done. But to best advise you on speakers, I and others will need to know if you are considering new speakers in addition to used. By the way, you're doing very well by asking questions and continuing to post. That's the best way to help you get a system you will like.

 

[1Time]

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_matt0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif one thing thatll definitely be a factor in speaker choice is that i dont have a ton of room for these speakers to sit OUT from the wall, essentially I need something thatll sound decent if fairly close to the "front" wall. i understand speakers like the magnepans or martin logans would be a terrible choice because of this, as they need a good 3-4 feet at least behind them as well - definitely rules them out for me

Do not even bother yourself with considering electrostats. One thing you will need to consider is whether you have room for rear ported speakers. Most speakers out there are ported and many are rear ported. And rear ported speakers usually need to be away from the front wall anywhere from 1' to 2' to sound their best. Sealed speakers and front ported speakers are more flexible in their placement. How close you place your speakers near the side walls and how close you sit from the speakers is important as well. So making the following information known when asking about speakers will help others advise you.
How wide is your room? 12'
Within what distance from the front wall are you able to position your speakers? Flush to 1'?
Within what distance from the front wall are you most likely to be listening to the speakers? 8' to 12'?
What placement preferences and limitations do you have for a sub? Can you place it away from a corner?
Do you want your speakers shelf-mounted or on stands? Stands would be better.
Do you have any limitations on how high or low you position your speakers?

 

[el_matt0]

wow 1time, thanks SO much for all the informative posts SO helpful. im not 100% set on the amp, i just really like the features etc of the 840a so its a serious consideration. as well, seeing as my source is a balanced 840c CDP, i figured it might be logical to stay balanced with my amp? I believe a good quality pair of monitors and a sub will be the best route for me to go, unless you can suggest some really affordable floor standers, i dont think they are as realistically within my price grasp at this stage of my speaker development!

ive been posting over at AVS, but between you and I, the people over here at head-fi just seem so much more helpful, not to mention i get replies about 10X as fast haha.

with respect to the room im listening in, its 12' deep and 18' "wide". there is a lot of flexibility with respect to where the speakers can go in terms of width (they can both be close to center, or WAY out to the sides of the 18' wide room, doesnt too much matter). the one thing that IS fairly specific, is that they need to be near to that "front" wall, definitely within 1 or 2 feet tops, if not closer. the main positioning that listening will be done from is closer to the "back" wall (about 10 feet back or so, and center). with respect to the sub, pretty flexible i think, is a corner better or worse? im not restricting myself to new OR used speakers. while new speakers wuld be great just because of ease to buy and order etc, id often much more of the mindset that if im going to spend 1000 on speakers, id rather get a 2K pair of speakers used than a 800 pair of speakers new if ya know what im sayin

 

[Blooze]

Do you have "usable" corners in your listening room? If so you might look into some versions of corner horns. Pi Speakers (DIY ones), similar to Klipsches comes to mind. You don't have to have 200 watts, or even 100 watts to get great bass and overwhelming levels. These speakers are very efficient at 100+ dB, compared to most. I've heard some of these driven with 8W tube amps and 50W SS amps and the bass is great and the levels would run you out of the room with both. Heck, I can run my 96dB speakers to loud levels with my 1W tube amp. Granted, horn speakers aren't for everyone, but I like them. I would suggest staying away from electrostatics unless you have lots of power to feed them. I've got a NAD BEE integrated amp that I like the sound of. It's got a little smoother sound to it than the other SS amps I've tried (I had the same budget as you). You can also go with some DIY pseudo line arrays and a single sub to get a very good sound and great soundstage.

Get out there and listen to as many types of speakers that you can before deciding. No ones opinion on a speaker is going to work for you. You have to listen to them yourself. Even better if you can audition them in your home.

I've got some pics of DIY Pi speakers on my site:
Speakers

Pi Speakers - unmatched quality and state-of-the-art performance

NAD Electronics :: C325BEE Stereo Integrated Amplifier

 

[el_matt0]

if i were to go with the 840a as an amp, at 120wpc (8ohms), and 200@4 ohms, am i going to be better off looking for full range (ie floor standers right) or monitors + a sub? again, the room is 12x18 and i basically need 2 front speakers, altho id have room for a sub as well if need be.

 

[1Time]

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_matt0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif if i were to go with the 840a as an amp, at 120wpc (8ohms), and 200@4 ohms, am i going to be better off looking for full range (ie floor standers right) or monitors + a sub? again, the room is 12x18 and i basically need 2 front speakers, altho id have room for a sub as well if need be.

With that amp, you don't "need" monitors and a sub instead of floorstanders. However, monitors driven well with a sub stand a better chance of sounding better than floorstanders that are not driven well. Plus, the sub's bass will out perform a floor stander's bass that's used with that amp. The overriding fact is large speakers, like the 200 RMS / 8 Ohm kind, need lots of power to sound their best in the lower registers. With such speakers, you will notice the difference between powering them with a 120 RMS amp and a 200 RMS amp. Quantity is not the problem. You can get large speakers to play loud easy enough with an amp of less power like that one, but to get higher quality bass out, they will require more power. A sub solves this problem for you and provides the deep bass some floor standers cannot provide.

 

[Blooze]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Time /img/forum/go_quote.gif With that amp, you don't "need" monitors and a sub instead of floorstanders. However, monitors driven well with a sub stand a better chance of sounding better than floorstanders that are not driven well.

Agreed. My old Klipsch Heresy's definitely need a sub to keep up. But that is mainly due to the cabinet size than speaker driver size.

Although my experience is somewhat limited with speakers, I have heard quite a few different designs and can confidently say that if you get very efficient speakers in decent sized cabinets, you don't need a lot of power to get great sound and low bass out of them. On the other hand very efficient speakers tend to be very revealing of your system's limitations. If you're planning on listening to DVD's through these you would definitely be better off getting a sub I would think. I've found for most music though, with the right speaker, a sub is unnecessary.

One way to hear some different systems is too see if there is an audio club in your area. Good way to check out different amps, speakers, sources, etc....and usually you can host a get together and have everyone bring their stuff to your listening room.

My suggestion again is to get out there and listen, listen, listen. Our opinions won't tell you squat when it comes to speakers. You've got to audition them for yourself as everyone perceives things differently.

 

[1Time]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blooze /img/forum/go_quote.gif Although my experience is somewhat limited with speakers, I have heard quite a few different designs and can confidently say that if you get very efficient speakers in decent sized cabinets, you don't need a lot of power to get great sound and low bass out of them.

Based on my experience and from what I've read, most of the better sounding speakers are not terribly efficient. And in any event, a more powerful amp will drive full range speakers better than a less powerful one.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blooze /img/forum/go_quote.gif On the other hand very efficient speakers tend to be very revealing of your system's limitations.

I think this has more to do with the tweeter or horn used than the effeciency of the speaker, but the point seems moot because the OP is not likely to choose unusually efficient speakers or anything with a horn.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blooze /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you're planning on listening to DVD's through these you would definitely be better off getting a sub I would think. I've found for most music though, with the right speaker, a sub is unnecessary.

It is definitely true that for most music, a sub will not make much of a difference as compared to full range speakers, especially if driven well. However, the OP is not likely to get an amp powerful enough to do that AND the OP wants to listen to rap and electronica, which require the production of very low bass.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blooze /img/forum/go_quote.gif One way to hear some different systems is too see if there is an audio club in your area. Good way to check out different amps, speakers, sources, etc....and usually you can host a get together and have everyone bring their stuff to your listening room.

This is what people do who are seriously into audio (unlike the OP who is a beginner). My guess is less than 1% of all who buy speakers go to such time consuming lengths to choose audio equipment.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blooze /img/forum/go_quote.gif My suggestion again is to get out there and listen, listen, listen.

The OP would be wise to heed the advise he receives from the more experienced. Based on the audio purchases most people make, the beginners and average Joes don't know what they're doing and end up spending too much for too little. The process of "listen, listen, listen", takes time the OP obviously is not willing to invest. And it definitely takes time to develop the ability to discern the many differences in audio equipment.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blooze /img/forum/go_quote.gif Our opinions won't tell you squat when it comes to speakers. You've got to audition them for yourself as everyone perceives things differently.

This does not apply to the OP because he will not be running around tirelessly listening to lots of speakers. Opinions and experience is what matters in this case.

 

[el_matt0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Time /img/forum/go_quote.gif This does not apply to the OP because he will not be running around tirelessly listening to lots of speakers. Opinions and experience is what matters in this case.

Thank you 1Time, this is precisely the case. It's not that I'm unwilling to invest the time in running around etc, its just that I'm a university student and time to do that kind of thing is limited to say the least, not to mention the town I go to school in is extremely limited in the way of hifi audio outlets. I have had quite a lot of experience in experimenting and listening to LOTS and LOTS of different pairs of headphones, so I definitely know the benefits and clearcut advantages of going that route (not doing so often involves a lot of lost money simply through selling/swapping until you find something that DOES suit your fancy). As is clear, this is my first speaker setup, one which I will obviously be modifying / tweaking down the line, but at this point, hopefully without having to trial 30 different pairs of speakers, I'm looking for a 2.1 system that would be a good "base" starting point. That said, I don't want a crud sounding speaker system given my prior experience in audio (just not speakers), so I'm looking to all of you guys who DO have the years under your belt for a bit of advice.

As I mentioned before, at this point I'm seriously looking at the Cambridge Audio 840a amp, to keep my entire system in balanced config, so for now why don't we try to build the 2.1 system around that. Thanks!!!

 

[1Time]

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_matt0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As I mentioned before, at this point I'm seriously looking at the Cambridge Audio 840a amp, to keep my entire system in balanced config, so for now why don't we try to build the 2.1 system around that. Thanks!!!

You're welcome. I have been researching speaker and sub options for you this morning and here's what I have at the top of a short list: B&W DM602 S3 speakers and the HSU STF-2 sub. I can't imagine you going wrong with this selection. Of course there are other worthy contenders, but that's what I am quite comfortable suggesting for you at this point.

 

[el_matt0]

yep, im pretty set on the STF-2 as well for the sub - should be able to run that directly out of the second set of speaker taps, "speaker B" from the 840a right (or is there a more advisable way of doing this given my setup)? I'm looking at the 700 series from B&W perhaps, since I have a couple months to save before getting the speakers, I might just save and go for the 705 or 704s, based on the recommended power rating seems like the 840a should pair fairly well with either of those i think?