[Eee Pee]

Did you say howdy with a tip of the cowboy hat?
 
650 was their reference and known to be THE reference since I've known Sennheiser existed since I cared about headphones in 1994.  I couldn't afford them and actually went complete opposite (sound wise) and bought what I could afford at the time, Grado SR60s.  Walked around campus everyday with a CD player and my Grados.  Pretty funny when I think back about that, being in class blasting away in an auditorium.  
 
Give 10 random people a headphone and I almost guarantee they'll pick the 650 over everything.  It is what it is and has stood the test of time.  The 600s would be really close until you really buckle down with them and hear their uh, differences.
 
I think I've veered a bit off topic, sorry.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Did you say howdy with a tip of the cowboy hat?
 
650 was their reference and known to be THE reference since I've known Sennheiser existed since I cared about headphones in 1994.  I couldn't afford them and actually went complete opposite (sound wise) and bought what I could afford at the time, Grado SR60s.  Walked around campus everyday with a CD player and my Grados.  Pretty funny when I think back about that, being in class blasting away in an auditorium.  
 
Give 10 random people a headphone and I almost guarantee they'll pick the 650 over everything.  It is what it is and has stood the test of time.  The 600s would be really close until you really buckle down with them and hear their uh, differences.
 
I think I've veered a bit off topic, sorry.

 
You're using a different definition of reference than I am. When I say reference headphone, I mean one that is one of the most neutral and accurate headphones out there (example: SR-009) -- not one that is merely good or popular or whatever.

 

[Eee Pee]

Block list is worthless, and I just can't ignore you.  You say some things that just bug me.  
 
Ever hear a 009?  I have.  On super "reference" gear.  Thousands of dollars.  And what?  Sure, great.  Natural?  No.  We all heard it, and now said owner doesn't own them anymore.  Superknowa (or close to that) is his name. 
 
I really don't care what you say but you spread some info that is just off.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Block list is worthless, and I just can't ignore you.  You say some things that just bug me.  
 
Ever hear a 009?  I have.  On super "reference" gear.  Thousands of dollars.  And what?  Sure, great.  Natural?  No.  We all heard it, and now said owner doesn't own them anymore.  Superknowa (or close to that) is his name. 
 
I really don't care what you say but you spread some info that is just off.

 
Which amp did you hear the SR-009 on? Its sound changes significantly depending on the amp, tubes, etc.
 
You spread info that is incorrect. The HD 650 is a warm/dark headphone, *not* neutral, and thus, not a true reference headphone.

 

[Fearless1]

   
Which amp did you hear the SR-009 on? Its sound changes significantly depending on the amp, tubes, etc.
 

 
 

. What I am saying is that the fundamental character of a headphone does not change no matter how much it scales.

 

[Eee Pee]

Pretty sure it was a First Watt something.  Speaker amp.  Dude spent thousands.
 
Not sure about your other point as all you ever do is reference a line on a graph, but never anything real life like I hear so I don't care.
 
Do you play any instruments?  Listen to live music?

 

[Eee Pee]

Dang Fearless1, you stole my back up.

 

[Music Alchemist]

 

 
The fundamental character is still the same even when you color the sound with tubes and so on.
 

  Pretty sure it was a First Watt something.  Speaker amp.  Dude spent thousands.
 
Not sure about your other point as all you ever do is reference a line on a graph, but never anything real life like I hear so I don't care.
 
Do you play any instruments?  Listen to live music?

 
lol. Electrostatic headphones are meant to be used with dedicated electrostatic headphone amplifiers. A speaker amp plus an electrostatic converter won't do them justice.
 
I do vocals, guitar, piano, and trombone, and have been in everything from orchestras to jazz bands to metal bands. I know what accurate audio sounds like. To reproduce audio accurately, like real life, a headphone has to be close to neutral, in addition to many other things beyond the frequency response. The HD 650 is far too dark to come close to sounding like real life. This fact is extremely well-documented. Again, I cannot believe you aren't able to comprehend that it has a dark tonal balance and is not remotely close to being one of the most accurate headphones. There are countless other headphones that are more accurate.

 

[kmitschiener]

Hi, judging by how you want to upgrade even though the headphone you have right now is fine, I'd suggest you just spend your budget right now on a really good amp which you'll have for a long time rather than a dac and amp you'll have for less than a year. Better to upgrade along a path than to keep buying disposable sets equipment.

That said, I'd really recommend the Darkvoice 336se. It's my amp of choice with the HD 650s. Can be had for around $220 if you look around. For now, a pairing with a cheap fiio dac should be good enough.

Now, if you need a DAC first I suggest either the Modi or the Dragonfly with something like the magni. Both are pretty good DACs that you won't have to upgrade soon.

My point here being that you should spend a lot on either your DAC or Amp you'll keep for a long time. Trust me, you'll save cash in the long run

Personally, I'd get the amp first because tube technology advances a lot slower than DACs.

Have fun with the HD 650's. My personal favorite headphones

 

[Eee Pee]

I might be mistaken on the First Watt and it might have very well been some other 5 grand amp cause it was like, seriously dude, you spent how much!?  I could look through our meet threads but I don't care.  Very well might have been a KGSG or whatever those are.  It most certainly was made for those headphones.  I remember saying, not worth the cost over my Senn 800s.  He now has a Valhalla and 800s.  Reality checked in.
 
Good to hear you have real life experience, but as far as you saying the 650 is far too dark is simple bullschiit.  Plain and simple.  And to question my comprehension ability on anything is not only pissing me off, but makes me reassure myself you're something special.  Which is why I originally put you on my block list.  

 

[jodgey4]

That should be my next avatar .
 
Interesting discussion, despite some of the tone. I guess, to me at least, 'reference' means an accepted and neutral gear. Like, Yamaha HS8s are great reference monitors. But yet, colloquial definitions might emphasize more the standard acceptance of a certain gear. HD650's have that, and reference tonality IMHO. So I'll back out of this one

.
 
 
And, agreed, amp before DAC. Getting usable volumes always comes first. HD650's can play nice with all kinds of gear due to the higher impedance yet still good sensitivity.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I might be mistaken on the First Watt and it might have very well been some other 5 grand amp cause it was like, seriously dude, you spent how much!?  I could look through our meet threads but I don't care.  Very well might have been a KGSG or whatever those are.  It most certainly was made for those headphones.  I remember saying, not worth the cost over my Senn 800s.  He now has a Valhalla and 800s.  Reality checked in.
 
Good to hear you have real life experience, but as far as you saying the 650 is far too dark is simple bullschiit.  Plain and simple.  And to question my comprehension ability on anything is not only pissing me off, but makes me reassure myself you're something special.  Which is why I originally put you on my block list.  

 
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=off&q=site:head-fi.org+%22hd+650%22+%22dark%22
 
The HD 650 is very, very well known as being dark and warm, not neutral. Plain and simple.

 

[Eee Pee]

Your link doesn't work.  And I once again feel like my time is wasted on you so I'm done.  It's like talking to a 17 year old.  You're right.  I'm wrong.  Carry on with your 18 posts per day.
 
 
 
 
jodgey, I like the picture.  I also like the Roots.  I think that's who that is.  ?uestlove?  Is that right?  Questlove.
 
The reference is what we as a people like.  The reference to which all others are compared.  650 is that.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Your link doesn't work.  And I once again feel like my time is wasted on you so I'm done.  It's like talking to a 17 year old.  You're right.  I'm wrong.  Carry on with your 18 posts per day.
 
jodgey, I like the picture.  I also like the Roots.  I think that's who that is.  ?uestlove?  Is that right?  Questlove.
 
The reference is what we as a people like.  The reference to which all others are compared.  650 is that.

 
Go to Google and type in or paste this:
site:head-fi.org "hd 650" "dark"
 
I find it hard to believe that you are not aware of the HD 650's reputation of being a dark and warm headphone. It's the most well-known thing about it!
 
If you use that as the definition of reference, then I agree with you to a certain extent. It is indeed a popular headphone. But being popular is not what a true reference headphone is; being accurate is. All serious audiophiles regard reference headphones as ones that sound the most like real life. The HD 650 isn't even in the top 100 in that regard.

 

[Eee Pee]

I get roped into this schiit.
 
Popularity has ZERO to do with it.  You know people sell off high end stuff and come back around to the 650 right?  Tone dude, tone.  Tonality.  It's darn near spot on with the 650.  This is well known.
 
Top 100?  What are you smoking?
 
I won't comment on the audiofools I mean philes bit, cause that'll get me in trouble.