[inthere]

  Now I'm undecided between Focal Spirit Professional and the HD 650... So I guess the Amp/DAC will depend on which one I pick.
@Music Alchemist
What do you think about the Focal Spirit's durability? is it really worth the money? I've read some reviews of people moving from HD-650 to these...
 
 
Anyway, I would go up for $200 for the Amp/DAC stack..

If you can do $200 for a stack I'd strongly suggest the Aune T1 MK2 for $169:
 
http://www.amazon.com/Aune-Second-Generation-Amplifier-Decoder/dp/B00IWK8FK2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1431386891&sr=8-3&keywords=aune+t1
 
Makes the Fulla sound like schiit and you can upgrade the tube later for even better sound; you can also bypass the amp section 
and feed that sweet tube DAC into another amp if you decide to get a standalone amp later.

 

[Fearless1]

  I owned the HD 650 recently and used it with a Schiit Fulla.
 
You should note that if you want clear, neutral sound, the HD 650 is not a good choice at all for that.

With all do respect, if you used the Fulla with the HD650, you really should not comment on how they sound. Not a good match at all.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  With all do respect, if you used the Fulla with the HD650, you really should not comment on how they sound. Not a good match at all.

 
I said in another post that it sounded pretty darn good. But everyone knows that the HD 650 has a darker tonal balance and is not neutral. And I think this whole "buy a much more expensive amp or your impressions are invalid" logic is a bunch of nonsense. The HD 650 is pretty easy to drive too. The main thing is that people like to color the sound with tube amps. I favor accuracy, which the HD 650 is incapable of.

 

[Fearless1]

   
I said in another post that it sounded pretty darn good. But everyone knows that the HD 650 has a darker tonal balance and is not neutral. And I think this whole "buy a much more expensive amp or your impressions are invalid" logic is a bunch of nonsense. The HD 650 is pretty easy to drive too. The main thing is that people like to color the sound with tube amps. I favor accuracy, which the HD 650 is incapable of.

The most neutral amp I own is a tube amp.
 
I never said anything about tube or expensive amps, I have used the Fulla with the HD650 and it was horrible(muffled). I use it(650) with other equipment and it can send chills up my spine. This is an experienced based opinion.
 
Your impressions are valid, they mirror mine with the combo. The 650s scale immensely with synergetic amplification. I can say that is not a bunch of nonsense to my ears because once again, that is an experienced based opinion.  

 

[Music Alchemist]

To the OP: I want to add that if clarity is important to you, the Focal Spirit Professional isn't the best choice either. It's a little too dark (slightly boosted bass and slightly recessed mids and treble) to be a true reference, despite the fact that it is closer to neutral than the majority of headphones. And although I prefer the overall sound of the FSP over the HD 650, I won't deny that the latter is far superior in certain respects.
 

  The most neutral amp I own is a tube amp.
 
I never said anything about tube or expensive amps, I have used the Fulla with the HD650 and it was horrible(muffled). I use it with other equipment and it can send chills up my spine. This is an experienced based opinion.
 
Your impressions are valid, they mirror mine with the combo. The 650s scale immensely with synergetic amplification. I can say that is not a bunch of nonsense to my ears because once again, that is an experienced based opinion.  

 
I'm not denying that it scales with better gear, since that is well-known. What I am saying is that the fundamental character of a headphone does not change no matter how much it scales. The HD 650 will never be a neutral reference headphone. That is not what it was designed to be, after all.

 

[Eee Pee]

  The HD 650 will never be a neutral reference headphone. That is not what it was designed to be, after all.

 
Oh really?  And did you design them this way?  
 
Pretty sure they ARE the reference.
 
You talk some serious nonsense, hence being on my block list, however since you were quoted I got to read your stuff and couldn't help myself apparently.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Oh really?  And did you design them this way?  
 
Pretty sure they ARE the reference.
 
You talk some serious nonsense, hence being on my block list, however since you were quoted I got to read your stuff and couldn't help myself apparently.

 
What?! It is common knowledge that the HD 650 does not have a neutral tonal balance. People usually buy it because they want a headphone that is warm and smooth. Even in the pamphlet that comes with the headphones, Sennheiser talks about how they designed them to be *not* neutral. You're the one speaking nonsense.

 

[Eee Pee]

Despite my block list, I got an email notification so I looked.  Figures, you.
 
I can't find anything in my paperwork that came with mine that says what you say it does.  Care to share?
 
And again, what?  Are you delusional or in a world of pokeman and don't realize this was Sennheiser's reference headphone until they went to the 800s, never mind the Orpheus unobtanium, which coincidentally, sounds a lot like the 650.  That's not to say Senn did it 100% right, but they sure as schiit got dang close.

Funny how many people ditch other headphones and come back to the 650s.  There's a reason they've been number 1 for 20 some years.
 
Typed out with the 800s on my head.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Despite my block list, I got an email notification so I looked.  Figures, you.
 
I can't find anything in my paperwork that came with mine that says what you say it does.  Care to share?
 
And again, what?  Are you delusional or in a world of pokeman and don't realize this was Sennheiser's reference headphone until they went to the 800s, never mind the Orpheus unobtanium, which coincidentally, sounds a lot like the 650.  That's not to say Senn did it 100% right, but they sure as schiit got dang close.

Funny how many people ditch other headphones and come back to the 650s.  There's a reason they've been number 1 for 20 some years.
 
Typed out with the 800s on my head.

 
A reference headphone has a close to neutral tonal balance, at the least. I am not talking about BS marketing tactics where a company calls something a reference. I am talking about true reference headphones that reproduce audio accurately. Being a good headphone is not good enough in terms of being a reference headphone, like the SR-009 and HD 800 are. The most well known thing about the HD 650 is how warm and smooth (ie not accurate) it is. The HD 600 as well as countless other headphones are more neutral than the HD 650. I can't believe you're even arguing about this. You clearly don't know the meaning of what a reference headphone is if the HD 650 is your idea of a reference headphone.

 

[jodgey4]

@Eee Pee reference =/= neutral. Sennheiser reps always describe it as 'warm', too.
 
"Today many music lovers want to feel the sound more instead of plainly analyzing it. The HD 650 now captivates your senses where you used to be a mere observer."
 
"Exceptionally natural, spatial and accurate sound."
 
"Pleasantly natural trebles."
 
All pulled from the included handbook. Please reevaluate your comments.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  @Eee Pee reference =/= neutral. Sennheiser reps always describe it as 'warm', too.
 
"Today many music lovers want to feel the sound more instead of plainly analyzing it. The HD 650 now captivates your senses where you used to be a mere observer."
 
"Exceptionally natural, spatial and accurate sound."
 
"Pleasantly natural trebles."
 
All pulled from the included handbook. Please reevaluate your comments.

 
Yep, those are the quotes. I'm not implying that the HD 650 is a bad headphone by any means. All I'm saying is that it is not the most accurate headphone out there -- not even close. I also emphasized that this is the very reason many people buy it -- because they want something more relaxing without tons of detail thrown in your face.

 

[Eee Pee]

I will jodgey, thanks.  Texas toast/Shiner beer clink.  
 
Senn reps won't say their 800 is bright but we all know it is, so that (what they say) really says nothing to me.  And now the 700s are on my head.  What do they say about the 700?  They excite your ears?  Oooookay.
 
They said natural and accurate.  What more is there?  Neutral?  What's the difference?  What are you guys hearing in real life that isn't natural or accurate or neutral for that matter?  

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I will jodgey, thanks.  Texas toast/Shiner beer clink.  
 
Senn reps won't say their 800 is bright but we all know it is, so that (what they say) really says nothing to me.  And now the 700s are on my head.  What do they say about the 700?  They excite your ears?  Oooookay.
 
They said natural and accurate.  What more is there?  Neutral?  What's the difference?  What are you guys hearing in real life that isn't natural or accurate or neutral for that matter?  

 
Calling it accurate and so on is just more marketing. It is natural and accurate in a few ways, but not for the most part. All this is well-known as well.

 

[jodgey4]

Howdy!
 
The difference between 'natural' and 'neutral' is much debated, and 'reference' is usually reserved for neutral monitoring purposes. The HD650 has better distortion and extension and detail than the HD600, which is why they can IMHO fairly say it's quite accurate. If you notice, on the Sennheiser site, they describe the HD600 as 'neutral'.
 
Colorful language is always used in advertising, indeed . But I don't recall the 650 in particular being called reference or neutral. The HD800 I would agree is bright as well, so the much darker HD650 must be very dark by their new standards. Who knows.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Howdy!
 
The difference between 'natural' and 'neutral' is much debated, and 'reference' is usually reserved for neutral monitoring purposes. The HD650 has better distortion and extension and detail than the HD600, which is why they can IMHO fairly say it's quite accurate. If you notice, on the Sennheiser site, they describe the HD600 as 'neutral'.
 
Colorful language is always used in advertising, indeed . But I don't recall the 650 in particular being called reference or neutral. The HD800 I would agree is bright as well, so the much darker HD650 must be very dark by their new standards. Who knows.

 
A neutral headphone follows the flat speaker HRTF and sounds the same (in terms of frequency response) as a speaker system that is tuned to be flat and accurate. If the recording itself sounds natural, then it will sound natural on a neutral system. But if the recording sounds unnatural, then it won't sound natural on a neutral system. Of course, there are no perfectly neutral headphones.
 
Look at the green line on this measurement graph for the Focal Spirit Professional. That green line is the flat speaker HRTF. (The black line is the Harman-Olive HRTF that is merely an average of what sound people prefer.) Going from that, you can see that the FSP's bass is slightly boosted and the mids and treble are a little recessed. Despite this, it is still a lot more neutral than many other headphones. It's not as dark as the HD 650, for example.
 
Except it says "Reference Class" on (one version of) the box of the HD 650. XD They also call it a reference in marketing materials, at the same time they talk about how they designed it to not be neutral. There is some truth to it, beyond the frequency response, which you touched upon. But to be a true reference, it also has to be close to neutral. I am convinced that the true merit of any headphone is how it performs beyond the frequency response. For example, the FSP has excellent impact and physicality, unlike many neutral-ish headphones. This could be a result of its mylar/titanium alloy drivers, but this is only speculation.