[akwok]

So after going back and forth, it seems that the MFW-15 is a bit too big (and probably not suited) for my room. Back to the drawing board -- Velodyne DD-10, that is.

Sub shopping is quite fun though, reminds me of when I first got into Head-Fi..

 

[TheBends]

just out of curiousity, why not the hsu offerings?

 

[akwok]

I am worried that it might overpower my Guarneris in my 11x17 room!

 

[classicalguy]

Maybe the better question is whether an 8" or 10" or even 12" sub would sound faster and more musical? There really is very little music below 40hz. I'd rather have the stuff above 40hz done right, than a great and powerful 15hz tone.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicalguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe the better question is whether an 8" or 10" or even 12" sub would sound faster and more musical? There really is very little music below 40hz. I'd rather have the stuff above 40hz done right, than a great and powerful 15hz tone.

What about organ music, electronica, low rock music, etc.? His Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage mains are -3 dB at 55 Hz, so they should have the majority of the classical orchestra covered (excluding organ), but he says that they aren't enough for certain genres of music.

It seems that speed is more a function of the room's decay rate, the subwoofer's design, and its internal amplifier's power handling than the size of the woofer or the enclosure. Some of the larger Hsus might sound as tight as a Sunfire True subwoofer... who knows?

 

[swt61]

Sumiko the US importer for Sonus Faber also imports the REL line of subwoofers. They have a very good reputation, and have many models to choose from. Have you considered them Adrian?

 

[classicalguy]

Yes, it's surely not ONLY size that counts. But size is a factor. I wonder how good a huge 15 incher is going to do crossed over at 100or 120 hz? No doubt it will go low, and move a lot of air, but for music that's not the most important thing. Hsu makes a mid-bass unit to go along with his big subs - why if the big subs handle the mid-bass so well? High quality 10" with a strong amp should do music quite well.

 

[warpdriver]

I'm using the SVS SB12Plus (their small box sealed sub) with great results in conjunction with the Velodyne SMS-1. I have the response dialed in +/-2dB down to 25Hz. It's a sealed sub and it sounds very tight, so I'm very happy with the results.

I heard the SVS PB12Plus once, and it sounded fairly boomy, probably the room, but I didn't pursue it any further based on that.

I think if you want a musical sub, you're definitely on the right track with the DD10 or 12, they are immensely musical subs, but still provide plenty of kick down to 25Hz which is 99% of what you need for music unless all you listen to is pipe organs.

 

[Tgun5]

I've never met a Velodyne that I liked. At the risk of offending someone here please don't buy a Velodyne for music reproduction.

Although I don't particularly like Carvers stuff in general, the Sunfire subs are pretty nice and tight at 100 cycles -down.

The Paradigm subs are the ticket though. Underated unfortunately. They are built well and none of their models exhibit tubby, uncontroled bass. The best sub I have ever heard (and owned) by far is the Paradigm Seismic 10. The rest of the Paradigms are very good also, but the Seismic is in a class of it's own.

And yes, I speak from experience as I've owned M&K, Velodyne, Sunfire, multiple models of Paradigm and others.

Stay with a 10" sub.

 

[akwok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sumiko the US importer for Sonus Faber also imports the REL line of subwoofers. They have a very good reputation, and have many models to choose from. Have you considered them Adrian?

Yea, I've been looking at some RELs on Audiogon (the Britannia B3), but unfortunately the last one sold for a nice price a few days ago.

I will check out the Paradigm Seismic 10. Good thing too, cause Paradigm is Canadian as well!

 

[swt61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by akwok /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yea, I've been looking at some RELs on Audiogon (the Britannia B3), but unfortunately the last one sold for a nice price a few days ago. I will check out the Paradigm Seismic 10. Good thing too, cause Paradigm is Canadian as well!

I own Paradigm Reference Active 20's, and I'm quite impressed with the company as a whole. The only Paradigm sub I've spent any real time with was the servo controlled Reference 15. That was quite a nice sub, but I agree that a 10" sub is probably what you want.

Here ya go...

AudiogoN ForSale: Paradigm Seismic-10

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tgun5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Paradigm subs are the ticket though. Underated unfortunately. They are built well and none of their models exhibit tubby, uncontroled bass. The best sub I have ever heard (and owned) by far is the Paradigm Seismic 10. The rest of the Paradigms are very good also, but the Seismic is in a class of it's own.

I went to hear the whole lineup once, and the Seismic were pretty meh to me. They sounded pretty loud for their size, but I thought they were a bit sloppy. Now, the one that did impress me was the Paradigm Servo 15 V2 playing in the same room I heard the Seismic in. That would be worth every cent. Utterly tight and musical. It's also good proof that a large driver can sound "fast"...putting an end to that myth for me. I still regret not jumping on the Servo 15 when the dealer was clearing out them at 40% off

You said you didn't like Velodyne but have you heard the DD line of Velodyne? It's in a different league than any of the other Velodyne sub lines. They are supremely musical especially once you fine tune them with the parametric EQ

 

[Tgun5]

Different strokes I guess. I owned the seismic ten and never experienced sloppy bass. I can't say that any of the Paradigms are that way.

I have not heard the DD Velodynes

 

[TheBends]

i found this thread over at audioholics comparing the dd10 to the dd12

Velodyne DD-10 or DD-12...help me decide! - Audioholics Home Theater Forums

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tgun5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't say that any of the Paradigms are that way. I have not heard the DD Velodynes

I guess it's relative. If you compare one Paradigm to another casually, you might find not find any of them sloppy. But if you compare, say a UltraCube 10, to a Definitive Technology Supercube III, or a SVS SB12Plus as I did, you'll definitely find the Paradigm to be the sloppiest (and weakest) of the bunch. I heard the PW2200, the Ultracube 10/12, the Seismic 12, and the Servo 15 all within a 45 minute window in the dealer's same room, and you could easily tell that the Servo 15 was in a different league. It sounded cleaner and cleaner the more we raised the volume. The PW2200 was ok, but definitely a bit boomy, the Ultracube sounded very distressed (distorted) in the large room we auditioned it in, the Seismic did pretty well but if I was looking in that price range, I would spring for the Servo 15 which blew it away. I have not heard their newest DSP line so I can't say anything about that....hopefully it's better than the previous lines.

For the OP, I'd suggest you do check out the REL, the DD10 if you can. For the Paradigm, I'm not saying the Seismic is bad or anything but for the same price, I think you could do better. The Martin Logans are pretty good too, I heard the Descent which was pretty good.