[arnett]

I bought a set of Audioquest Little Feet from a local audio store a few days ago.

Funny thing is, I think I can hear and see a difference. I have them placed under my cheaper Sony DVP-NC650V DVD/SACD player. It seems that the picture quality has improved quite noticeably: smoother and more film-like.
The change in the audio quality is not as dramatic but it DOES seem that I’m hearing little details a bit better. And the bass seems a bit deeper as well.

Keep in mind that I live in a huge older apartment building (circa 1963) with roughly 100 other apartments. Sometimes I can actually feel the building vibrate. If there has ever been a candidate for vibration control, I’m it.

Anyway, I’m beginning to question all my beliefs about interconnects and tubes, etc.
I can only chalk up the difference in sound of the ‘little feet’ to the placebo effect. I mean, come on . . . vibration control making this much difference!?!

Next thing you'll see me buying are those little red “RF stoppers” that go on the end of ICs. Or maybe little blocks that elevate my speaker cables off the floor.

Sometimes this hobby can make you feel like [size=small]one sick puppy[/size].

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by arnett Anyway, I’m beginning to question all my beliefs about interconnects and tubes, etc. I can only chalk up the difference in sound of the ‘little feet’ to the placebo effect. I mean, come on . . . vibration control making this much difference!?! Next thing you'll see me buying are those little red “RF stoppers” that go on the end of ICs. Or maybe little blocks that elevate my speaker cables off the floor.

The red RF stoppers are ferrite chokes. They work. Take a look at the cable between your computer and your monitor. Odds are that there are chokes on the video cable. Of course audiophile chokes tend to be more expensive

Anyone who has ever owned a turntable can tell you about the need for vibration control. It's true of CD players as well. Effects are more subtle with components such as amps, but they're real there also.

Hmmm...maybe I need some lifters to keep my headphone cables off the floor...

 

[arnett]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hirsch The red RF stoppers are ferrite chokes. They work. Take a look at the cable between your computer and your monitor. Odds are that there are chokes on the video cable. Of course audiophile chokes tend to be more expensive

you see! they've already gotten to Hirsch!

 

[Wilson M.]

It's funny but I was talking about this with someone else the other day.

Does any of this stuff work? You can't prove a lot of it because the effects can be too subtle.

But some people argue that as long as the sound is not any worse then at least you can say to yourself that you have at least attempted to make things better. Placebo or otherwise.

Take cables. Audioquest just came out with cables that have a battery source to maintain dielectric bias. I haven't heard them so I don't know if they are blowing smoke or not.

George Cardas believes that even moving cables affects the stored electric charge in the dielectric. It doesn't get rid of all of it but it supposedly decreases it. He also feels that not using cables for a long time also allows the charge to dissipate. He doesn't advocate doing much special about it other than not moving them so it's not like he's trying to sell you extra products.

I suppose that the blocks and the lifters that lift cables off the ground are built for the same reason: vibration from the floor entering the cables. Speakers themselves are the major source of vibration (along with walking/running).

I live in an apartment with a sprung wood floor. The whole place shake a bit whenever my neighbours slam their doors. I use tube gear so the tubes probably receive a jolt of vibration each time(microphonics). I know my turntable is affected. In fact, the unipivot arm will wobble a tiny amount in such cases (or when someone stomps hard on my floor). If nothing like that happens, it doesn't wobble. It is easily reproducible.

Most people here believe cables, tube choices and power cords make a sonic difference.

I've used different interconnects at different times to tailor the sound of a system. If it's too sizzly then I use darker sounding cables. It it's too dark/dull then I use brighter sounding cables.

I know that my old Goldmund gear would change in sound for up to 2 days after powering it up as it stabilized electrically and thermally. Needless to say, I tried not to power it down.

Budget based on what you have for components. People ask me for advice and I roll my eyes when someone wants to hook up a $1000 power cord to a $1500 CD player. It could quite possibly sound better than the $500 power cord but a better CD player would make more of a sonic impact. I'm not saying that they are wrong for doing it. I just think the money could be better allocated.

I just tell people to not go crazy and overboard about it. If your system sounds good to you then spend the money on CDs or DVDs.

 

[carlo]

arnett,

All the stuff you're considering is easily diyable. The folks at TNT-Audio suggest using rubber, squishy, or stress balls instead of Audiophile labeled stuff as vibration dampers because, well, Audiophile in this case is relabelled cheap stuff (think Blu-Tack). As Hirsch suggested, RF chokes can make a big difference and its only a couple of bucks to try. Most Radioshacks have snap-in-place RF chokes that fit most cables: <$10 for enough to do your whole system. Using multiple chokes on the same cord is also a cheap but sometimes worthy experiment. You could get nice cable lifters with $10 and some creativity at the local hardware store - I think cable lifters are completely for show, yet look very lame.

If vibration control is an issue try searching for "mass damping" in the tweaks forum here and on AA.

And, if it is a placebo effect, who cares? You now are getting a better picture for a couple of bucks. I call that a bargain.

Wilson,

Yes, but magic glitter is only $50/ounce and doesn't need recalibration. I believe zzz has a stash, but I don't expect him to give it up either.

Magic glitter owns.

 

[jude]

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by carlo ....The folks at TNT-Audio suggest using rubber, squishy, or stress balls instead of Audiophile labeled stuff as vibration dampers because, well, Audiophile in this case is relabelled cheap stuff (think Blu-Tack)....

[/size]Actually, the Audioquest feet are made of a form of Sorbothane, which is a rather unique material. There are much less expensive feet made from Sorbothane than the Audioquest feet, but the Audioquest Big Feet (I'm not sure about the littler versions) are made of the SorboGel version of Sorbothane (the differences between SorboGel and regular Sorbothane, truth be told, not being something I'm clear on yet).

Here are a couple of links that anyone interested in Sorbothane might find interesting:

http://www.sorbothane.com/PDF/sor_faq.pdf

http://www.sorbothane.com/PDF/sor_faq.pdf

I think it was years ago, on a show called That's Incredible, that I first learned of Sorbothane. In a demonstration on that show, some guy put a chunk of Sorbothane on top of his hand, and then proceeded to slam down on it hard with a hammer several times without hurting his hand (CAUTION: DO NOT TRY THIS DEMONSTRATION, AS YOU MAY SEVERELY INJURE YOURSELF AND/OR OTHERS!). When my Audioquest Big Feet (larger versions of arnett's Audioquest feet) arrived a couple of years ago, I tried the hammer demonstration on my hand with one of the feet (only with a smaller hammer and not as much force), and was quite surprised by the lack of energy that ended up on my hand (AGAIN -- CAUTION: DO NOT TRY THIS DEMONSTRATION, AS YOU MAY SEVERELY INJURE YOURSELF AND/OR OTHERS!).

Anyway, long story short, love it or hate it, it definitely ain't Blu-Tack.

 

[Wilson M.]

carlo: My doctor told me that magic glitter is not good for my mental health.

I agree that DIY is the best way to go if you want to do a lot of small tweaks.

Beyond cables and power conditioning, I actually don't do a whole lot of tweaking. Tube dampers, a GPA rack (more because I like how it looks) and a couple sets of Rollerblocks just for laughs.

Everything else... eh... not sold on it. I'd rather spend my money on more music.

 

[carlo]

Quote:

Jude: In a demonstration on that show, some guy put a chunk of Sorbothane on top of his hand, and then proceeded to slam down on it hard with a hammer several times without hurting his hand (CAUTION: DO NOT TRY THIS DEMONSTRATION, AS YOU MAY SEVERELY INJURE YOURSELF AND/OR OTHERS!). When my Audioquest Big Feet (larger versions of arnett's Audioquest feet) arrived a couple of years ago, I tried the hammer demonstration on my hand with one of the feet (only with a smaller hammer and not as much force), and was quite surprised by the lack of energy that ended up on my hand (AGAIN -- CAUTION: DO NOT TRY THIS DEMONSTRATION, AS YOU MAY SEVERELY INJURE YOURSELF AND/OR OTHERS!).

I think someone needs a new custom title...

Yeah, sorbothane is a specific material and it does make AQ feet special, thanks for making that distinction.

'case anyone cares: TNT-Audio

Wilson,
Quote:

My doctor told me that magic glitter is not good for my mental health.

pffffft the doctor. My glitter was made by nubile, long-legged 20 year-old Swedes, so it wasn't cheap but sounds really good. The hard part is finding the magic glitter.

 

[arnett]

well, i just got back from the hospital after trying jude's that's incredible Sorbothane hammer trick. thankfully, there are no broken bones in my hand.

jude,
my AQ 'little feet' are made from SorboGel. apparently, they don't make the little feet anymore -- just the big ones. the little feet can hold up to 4 lbs each.

i really wasn't expecting to see a difference under my SACD/DVD player. i really bought them to put under a turntable -- when i eventually get one, that is.

Quote:

Originally posted by carlo As Hirsch suggested, RF chokes can make a big difference and its only a couple of bucks to try. Most Radioshacks have snap-in-place RF chokes that fit most cables: <$10 for enough to do your whole system. Using multiple chokes on the same cord is also a cheap but sometimes worthy experiment. You could get nice cable lifters with $10 and some creativity at the local hardware store - I think cable lifters are completely for show, yet look very lame.

how much is a big difference? my god, i'm even thinking of trying these! what is happening to me?!?

 

[princeclassic]

i cut a mousepad into quarters and put each piece under the feet of my cd player...not for better sound quality (reduce jitter or whatever)...but to lessen the skipping since it's on a table i often bump into

 

[Wilson M.]

Quote:

Originally posted by carlo pffffft the doctor. My glitter was made by nubile, long-legged 20 year-old Swedes, so it wasn't cheap but sounds really good. The hard part is finding the magic glitter.

Alas I am too old for 20 year-old women to want to be around me (at least of their own free will).

Sorbothane can be a picky material and too many companies don't understand their elastic characteristics. The amount used has to be reasonably tuned for the object in question, weight as well as distribution. Too little or too much and the component might as well not even have any under it. Using a platform of some kind between the component and Sorbothane helps to distribute the weight better. Doesn't have to be fancy: plywood, particle board, glass, acrylic, etc.

 

[arnett]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wilson M. Sorbothane can be a picky material . . . Using a platform of some kind between the component and Sorbothane helps to distribute the weight better. Doesn't have to be fancy: plywood, particle board, glass, acrylic, etc.

wilson,

that's an interesting idea -- if just because it can be hard to find four level spaces underneath a player.

but the instructions on the back of the little feet say:

Quote:

For best damping and isolation, place the flat side directly against your equipment. Try not to use Little Feet under the equipment’s own feet.

 

[Wilson M.]

Heh... yeah the feet on most components are sad. Just like the power cords.

There are a lot of "platforms" used for isolation.

1) Bright Star's Big Rock (sand filled), Air Mass, IsoRock and Gemini.
2) Symposium's Isis shelf, Svelte shelf, Super Plus platform, Ultra platform and Quantum platform.
3) Black Diamond Racing's Source and The Shelf.
4) Zoethecus has 3-4 different types of shelves for their racks.
5) Grand Prix Audio has 2 types: acrylic and carbon fiber.

If you are feeling particularly rich then there is Vibraplane's 2212 Active Air platform. Self-leveling and self-inflating air platform complete with air compressor. But that's like $3000 and $5000 depending on size. If it's good enough for an electron microscope (it was originally created for them) then audio gear shouldn't be a problem.

But there are lots of DIY versions. MDF, marble slabs, ceramic tile, sheet metal all from Home Depot. Can use HD foam as well. It's best to make a multiple layer platform using dissimilar materials to help damp as much of the frequency range.

It's easy to go overboard with all of this stuff of course but hey, people like to tinker and tweak.

 

[braillediver]

A common and cheap isolation tweak is a smaller bicycle inner tube between 2 shelves. With CD Players people add mass to the top with bags of sand. They also open the CD player and put a sand bag or Blue Tac on/around the crystals trying to reduce jitter.

It’s always fun to try different things especially if it’s cheap.

Do some searches on Audio Asylum under Tweaks or the Digital section.


Mitch

 

[carlo]

arnett,

Try it, you know you want to

I used to use RF chokes on my diy (Doc B's receipe) power cord, but don't any longer - its effectiveness depends on how much interference you're picking up in the first place. Basically, the best thing here (as compared to the rest of audio) is you can experiment with tons of stuff for very little money. For example, I've used barbell weights (spray painted black for aesthetics) on a mouse pad, Dynamat/Dynashield, and cement bricks (painted black, for aesthetics) when dealing with mass damping - incidentally this has only been significant with speaker systems in my experience. But, the fun part is the trial and playing. If you find the time to try these things I'm interested in your results.

Something to try, if you can, is move your new footers around. One under the transport, another below the dac, and the other two arranged for balance might yield good results. Assuming you don't have adhesive issues, might work even better than what you've got now. Plus, its free