[richard51]

Thanks for your precisely illuminating remarks and comparison....You shut the puck or should we say the ball,right in the goal.... This french Dac (i had version 2 insert in my chain set-up with an isolator and a convertor) is the most kept well guarded secret in audio price wise and soundwise.... My experience with previous Os dac is the same than yours with the other dacs you tried: unnatural sound that makes our reptilian brain unrelaxed completely....

My Dac 2 is run by external lithium battery, and me too my speakers are completely damped, and more, all my other links upward(before the power conditioner,from the central electrical panel in my basement to the principal electrical cable at the exterior of the house) and downward,after the power conditioner, are treated with some stones to lowering the noise floor of the system... This method of mine transform completely the sound of the dac because like you rightly said «With NOS the real distortion takes place out of the audio band, not in the 20-20 range» and when all links are cleaned and treated, this dac reveal all my previous past dac equal to something no more interesting at all, like some bunch of gear that really never sounded natural at all.... Some like this french dac but have made some restrictive remarks concerning the lack of high definition or a sound too much warm etc... This is my experience before break-in, and before completing my treatment of the electrical grid for lowering the noise floor....Now this dac, paid on ebay(one of the last unit of the dac2) a too low amount to be mention here is the most rewarding purchase i have ever make in audio...But treatment of vibrations is tantamount and imperative in all links, and methods for lowering the noise floor make the biggest difference i have ever experienced.... In fact the only defect of this dac comes from his sensitivity to the true source of any audio system : the electrical grid of the house where the audio system is embedded....Few people are conscious of this fact, and curious mind will investigate, this is the reason i mention here with the subject of Nos dac....
More explanation about that in this thread :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/top...000-bucks-all-included-is-it-possible.864928/

Best regards to you

New to this site, been on Ak for years. Really enjoyed this thread.
I have tried a number of DAC's in my system, including 3 Schiit MB's, and settled on NOS, or NOS like (tubed Maverick Audio D1 Plus w/upgrades and Tesla Tube/Sparko upgrades).
Speakers in both my system are upgraded ESS AMT3's w/Great Heils, and upgraded bass drivers and crossovers. H/K amplification/preamps.
The transient response of this speaker is excellent, with sealed bass (my mods), and sealed transition/midbass driver. Low ESR crossovers my mods). The Great Heil speaks for itself in speed and accuracy. Braced and vibration treated enclosures (my mods).
I was intrigued by the DAC3, as I have been using a Project DAC Box S Fl, that except for the quad 1543T chips, and lack of USB input and batteries, is very much the same design philosophy. Built like a solid tank. It benefits from being on a hour or so before listening. I think these chips like to be warm and stabilized. The FL, and DAC 3 are deadly quiet in all modes. The Maverick D1 is pretty good too.
Surprising the Maverick sounds very close to both of these, with the Project with the most refinement. Again, they both have to be left on for at least a hour, otherwise the sound is off. I think a outboard power supply is a must. Stable voltage, and quiet.
The USB Disrupter ( clean outboard USB power supply that cuts the computers 5 volt off completely at the DAC) is a worthy investment. But I found the biggest difference on the Maverick D1, and keep it on that. As with the D1, if found the DAC benefits from a USB cable that TOTALLY isolates the signal and power wire. The Wireworld Ultraviolet does this, and makes a huge difference on the USB. It now sounds just like the optical and coax. The Wireworld Chroma does this as well, at a less expensive price, with out a silver signal wire.
I would highly recommend this to all DAC 3 owners. Its night and day. Get them on Amazon.
I do think NOS really requires the right system. I never have felt the treble lacking, of soft in any way. Just the opposite. The flow of all the frequencies is very much like how you would hear it live. The tone and flow. I would not necessarily call it analog. just natural, detailed and satisfying. Like listening to a good life performance, that's setup well.
So I have to question some saying it's not a accurate portrayal of the program material. It depends on your taste. I find super high def audio to sound totally unnatural. It's addicting at first, like Schiit MB DACS. But you find yourself listening less and less to your system. So what's the point?
To me that speaks of negatives types of distortion, that are having a huge impact on the listening experience.
At $118 plus shipping it's a real bargain IMHO. The FL runs you $299. The Maverick D1, slightly more with upgrades (it's also more of a preamp).
I think specs are a starting point. With NOS the real distortion takes place out of the audio band, not in the 20-20 range.
I also agree with the poster on having a quiet system, and power lines. It can make a big difference it what your hearing.
Again, I can't stress enough the isolated power wire in the USB cable.
I never thought it would make such a huge difference. More then any interconnect swap I have made over the years.
As well as letting the 1543T chip warm up, and stabilize before you listen to it. It sounds much different cold.
http://box-designs.com/inhalt/en/reviews/PJ-BD-DACBoxSFL-Review-Stereo-1214-EN.pdf
http://box-designs.com/main.php?prod=dacboxsfl

 

[automojo]

Thanks!
Yes, I agree about the electrical noise. I do think many components are, like this Dac, more sensitive to electrical noise then people think. And I'm betting part of the reason the designer used internal batteries. Even though they aren't ideal from a long point current draw. I think a external, or very quiet linear source is ideal. The Ifi power unit is worth the $50 as a supplement. Extremely quiet as advertised. Just because a power supply in linear doesn't mean it's quiet, or isolated from noise. Maybe a electrical surge, but not noise. I think given the low price of the Dac, one can easily justify a quiet power supply @$50. Why not give it the best chance to perform?
In addition i to ferrite chokes on power leads, I have my house treated with PS Quiet Lines. Their noise analyzer is a worthwhile investment, as you can actually HEAR NOISE ON YOUR POWER LINES, and hear how well your treatment take care of it! And keep sensitive equipment isolated from each other, mechanically and electrically. The PS products are a good value and work well. Ferrite chocks are very inexpensive. Don't use them on a properly isolated USB cable though.
I do think a lot of people fail to treat noise seriously. In addition to proper component matching, its IMHO why they don't like certain component's. Particularly NOS Dac's. They simply aren't giving them a fair chance in their system. A real shame.
I also think people have been conditioned to HD audio, DS chips, what have you. What is supposed to sound good. And don't really understand how each component interact. Because they are switching things out so quickly. And in the end, not really listening to their music, but their system, And the next big wow. Despite listener fatigue. It's all about the system, newest technology, price looks etc. It's sad, because IMHO it's ALL about the music. A system is worthless IMHO if you can't listen to it all day, playing any type of music, and not fully enjoy the detail and impact, without fatigue.

 

[automojo]

I also think part of it is the reviews on equipment. Those guys go through tons of pieces and don't always give them a fair shake. When you read about their PERSONAL SYSTEMS, it's usally a different story.
I think people tend to get sucked into those Stereophile/etc reviews and do the same thing, swapping endlessly to find Audio Nirvana.
You really have to read between the lines on reviews like that.
Forums like these, it's a bit different. Because you get the other side, so to speak by those that understand how a system should come together.
And it really has nothing to do with price, looks prestige, etc. It's simply a philosophy.

 

[axtran]

I bought a dedicated power supply from Mouser US for my DAC 3. Very good investment. Will also know on Monday when I receive my custom-paired JDS Labs O2 that I intentionally configured to complement the DAC 3, what my setup can be!

 

[richard51]

I also think part of it is the reviews on equipment. Those guys go through tons of pieces and don't always give them a fair shake. When you read about their PERSONAL SYSTEMS, it's usally a different story.
I think people tend to get sucked into those Stereophile/etc reviews and do the same thing, swapping endlessly to find Audio Nirvana.
You really have to read between the lines on reviews like that.
Forums like these, it's a bit different. Because you get the other side, so to speak by those that understand how a system should come together.
And it really has nothing to do with price, looks prestige, etc. It's simply a philosophy.

I Think you are right, personally i think, assuming their general sincerity and integrity, people are not conscious of the different factors that makes review without much value,without really illuminating our choices, except some technical infos and anecdotal one... The necessary very particular synergy of all links of an audio systems, embedded in a particular physical location, with or without means to controls mechanical vibrations in ALL links of the audio system, with or without means to lower and controls the noise floor of the generalized interlinked elements of the system embedded in a particular electrical grid, all that without mentioning the particular needs of any potential customers and different for each of us, makes the review of any reviewer very limited and not always very useful before buying... When in the few beginning years where i trust reviewer i made mistakes after mistakes, but when after that i inform myself really in many different forums, i begin to see the light and understand what an audio system really is... And finally i understand that if your buying choices are not desastrous in the first place, the greatest upgrade is not buying a better link, but treating all links in your system to finally listen to it truly at his optimal before trashing it for an another one... After these mature audio choices and treatments methods you are really concious of the law of diminishing returns clearly, and this law is ruthless for any audio immature upgrade....

By the way the purchase at last of this french design minimalist battery dac is a revelation to me in this direction, upgrading really from it will cost way,way much, for my actual systems...This dac is so good rightly implemented in an audio system that the idea of upgrade lost any appeal, except perhaps if your system value exceed the modest under 1000 bucks of mine, and are way, way over many, many thousand dollars...
My best to you..

 

[automojo]

Yes!! I agree. While both of my systems exceed that amount, they comprise of vintage pieces, 70-90's. Spread out over many years. Maybe 5-6k for everything? Not sure. it's a hobby, so I spend when I'm able, and don't lose sleep when I can't. But I agree, I have found there are many budget, of the radar products that give you high quality musical sound, at ridiculously low prices. I just ran across a dual tube buffer, with excellent specs, and super quiet. Solid build, walwart power supply (Switching, but is isolated internally very well). $29.00 shipped.!! Add another $19.00 for matched GE tubes, and you have a buffer based on the M.F. 10XD at a fraction of the price. Like the DAC3, this thing totally blows my mind!! The volume control is very high quality, as is the power switch, and overall solid construction. Actully the stock Chinese tubes aren't bad at all after break in. Just isolate the chassis with a rubber or felt pad, along with supporting the input/output cable with small felt squares. A improved power supply would be interesting to try, at some point. But like the DAC 3, the potential is all there!! I found the Wirewound Tera a good match, and inexpensive. My best to you too my friend!! I really appreciate your thoughtful insiights!!

 

[richard51]

Next time! it same way for me to you... Thanks

 

[starence]

Don't worry too much about your power source for the DAC 3, all it does is charge the batteries. I asked the DAC's designer about it and here's his reply:

Yes it always run on batteries, and whatever source of power is available at that time is used to charge the batteries, and keep them topped. If external power (12V or higher) is present it will stop using USB power.

 

[Jimster480]

I just received my DAC 3 a couple days ago, and I'm really enjoying it. At first I tried it with an Eitr, but it seems to sound better with USB straight from my desktop. With shipping, I paid a little under $140 for the DAC 3, and for the price it's outstanding. I'm not sure yet if I prefer it to the Mimby, but it's in the same league. The only issue I have with the DAC 3 is the elevated bass, it can be a bit much with some music.

This is just the nature of a NOS design. Mimby isnt a NOS design its 192k upsampling (everything is upsampled to this)

 

[automojo]

Don't worry too much about your power source for the DAC 3, all it does is charge the batteries. I asked the DAC's designer about it and here's his reply:

Sure..
I think they’re definitely are advantages of running it off and external power supply versus soley the USB.
Having clean power going in, at least in my opinion is a definite advantage. Batteries really are aren’t going to filter out a noisy power supply.
It’s possible he has some filtering in there.
But I think getting the noise floor as low as possible is a good thing.
Even if you can’t hear the noise when you crank up the volume and don’t have any material playing, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a effect.
At least in my experience with this DAC, and other NOS DAC’s, it a subtle, but IMHO worthy improvement for the price.
I don’t think it’s anything you have to do right away, but just something to think about in the future depending on your budget your needs etc.
You get an idea what you’re listening to, the direction you want to go, and take each step one at a time.
Thing I noticed with the clean power supply on NOS Dacs, but other Dacs as well, is that it adds what can be best described as a effortlessness to the sound. DAC’s, equipment in general, respond differently depending on their sensitivity, and on board filtering etc.

 

[automojo]

This is just the nature of a NOS design. Mimby isnt a NOS design its 192k upsampling (everything is upsampled to this)

Sure..
I had both the Modi MB, and Bifrost, and a loaner MB Gungnir.
Each is the subtotal improvement and refinement, but they still have A lot of the same sonic signature.
A foward, rock stable presentation, with the Gungnir adding some air, and more neutrality.
They all gave excellent bass response.
I just found all of them a bit sterile, and unnvolving, and I wasn’t enjoying listening to my system anymore.
I had the distinct feeling I was listening to the DAC, and not the music.
For me, the NOS DAC’s, when properly applied, free you totally from this.
If your speakers are ported, and a bit underdamped, you may need to do some tweaking.
I purposely damped my modded AMT’s slightly under damped ( easily changed to critically damped with .4lb of Ultra Touch behind the woofers), but they are in a sealed enclosure, so their accuracy, and transient response is better than the majority of ported systems.
No port resonance, noise or boom.
You can always experiment with plugging, or partially plugging a port. Not ideal, but a easy and fun expeiment.
I have a homemade damping tester, that once you get a handle on what your hearing, makes damping speakers to ideal/ your taste a breeze.
Sometimes a simple move of 6 inches out can clean ported response up significantly.

 

[automojo]

Opps!!
.4 lb Dacron
In addition to the the side walls, and bottom lined with 1 1/2” acoustic egg crate foam, the Ultra Touch sits directly behind the woofers( in a pillow case). The Dacron is used for fine tuning, currently .6 lb (pillow case as well) in the sightly under damped state.
A mix of several damping materials usually yields the best results (Wheems).
Sorry for the confusion!!

 

[automojo]

Just to add, a lot of these tweaks are very inexpensive.
Stuff you have laying around.
Felt, rubber etc. Old shingles, felt roofing, foam. Ferrite chokes are also fairly inexpensive, Amazon, or eBay.
If you can find 1/4 F13 felt cheap, it works wonders in vibration damping.
Shop a bit and it comes up. You can glue thinner layers, or stack if needed.
There are probably more the a few materials laying around your place you might be surprised at that work well.
Power supplies can be pricey, but sometimes you can work with the seller to try them on a 30 day trial.
Once you get a good feel for this, then you have a much better idea of what you need to purchase, that you don’t have on hand .
Take it in steps, and shop, and your total investment will probably bleed be a lot less than you think.
Definitely a lot less than swapping out expensive pieces of equipment because she don’t have a handle on what you have, or what you’re looking for.
You may certainly find that a couple simple things can get you where you want to be, without a huge outlay of cash.
Frankly a lot of my cables I bought second hand, or open box.

 

[Haden2866]

There were rumours of a firmware update a few pages back. Does anyone have any more news? I'm wondering if it might improve compatibility with my Cayin N3 - is it Linux-based, I think it runs a custom version of HiBy - which sometimes works with the DAC3. I haven't asked Christophe about the update yet - thought I'd check in here first.

 

[jimmers]

This is just the nature of a NOS design. Mimby isnt a NOS design its 192k upsampling (everything is upsampled to this)

Nope, only for 48KHz family.
It's 176.4kHz for 44.1KHz family and it is NOS at those highest source sample rates, but over all not NOS.