[erikzen]

This is just me thinking out loud. Sometimes I just need to put things in writing to mull them over. Your input however, is very much appreciated!

After a half year of listening, I've decided that the Lawton Audio MD5000 DE is my favorite headphone among the several that I own. I'm thinking of selling a lot of my rig to finance a new rig. Of the equipment I'm willing to sell, I think I can raise between $1200 and $1500.

I currently have the following:

MD5000DE
SA5000 with Black Dragon
HF-1
Lambda Pro

LISA III with LLP
Little Dot MKIII
SRM-1/MKII

Ack dAck 2.0
SACD Mods Sony DVP-NS755v (primarily used as transport)

I would consider selling any of this gear except for the HF-1, LISA III and of course the MD5000DE.

My "gut" is saying get a Lavry DA10 and a Woo Audio 6. The Lavry is known for a very clear, detailed, neutral presentation and the Woo would impart some tube warmth. To fit my budget I would have to go used on the Lavry (if I can find one).

I see a few of potential problems with this rig though. DA10 has balanced outputs. I understand you can use an adaptor for single ended use, but that you also have to change an internal jumper. I think I could handle that but in my mind I'd prefer something single ended. Is there any reason not to run the DA10 in single ended mode?

Tube amps are not the recommended type of amp for the Denons. However, I've heard the Denons through a WA6 and it sounds sweet. Also, the Lavry has a headphone out (which would also elimiate the need to convert from balanced to single ended if I'm not mistaken) but I'm not sure if a separate amp would be better. I could always save up for another amp down the road. That being said, I could probably just get the DA10 and skip a new amp altogether at least for now.

Although not really a problem, the DA10 does not have USB input. I don't currently use my computer as a source but the idea is very appealing. I've done it before and I like having 1000s of easily accessible songs at my fingertips.

I could also keep my current source and just upgrade the amp to a WA6 or perhaps something even better. However, I'm interested in trying a new source. I currently have a NOS DAC and would like to hear what an OS DAC sounds like.

Choice 1:

Sell enough equipment to buy Lavry and Woo.

Choice 2:

Same as above but different amp and/or DAC

Choice 3:

Keep current DAC and buy new amp.

Choice 4:

Keep current amp (LD MKIII) and buy new DAC but which one?

There are probably dozens of other configurations I could play around with but I guess it boils down to what is the best source/amp combo for the MD5000 DE for under $1500.

 

[erikzen]

I've now sold my SA5000 and Ack dAck. I have put my LDMKIII on "interest check". I was thinking I could try the Musiland USB 2.0 as a computer based source and eventually buy a better DAC. This way I would have a decent source now, the ability to use my computer as a transport, and a clear upgrade path because I could eventually buy a better DAC and use the Musiland as a passthrough to continue to use my computer as a transport/server.

I'd still have enough money left over to buy a desktop amp and although I know the Denons supposedly need a solid state amp to "shine", I've heard them with the WA6 before and was impressed.

Or I could put the money towards a higher quality DAC and forego the amp for now. I could continue to use my LISA III and SRM 1/MKII. I'm now very interested in a Meier StageDAC as I think it has a lot of great features and Meier quality always seems to be top notch.

 

[erikzen]

I am pretty close to buying a PS Audio Digital Link III DAC at this point. It has USB, Coaxial and Optical inputs so I can use it with my existing tranport for CDs or my computer files.

I think this provides a nice upgrade path as it supports balanced as well as single ended output so I could someday go to an all balanced system with this source. Also, there are original manufacturer sactioned mods that some people claim bring the performance of this DAC up to the level of DACs costing 3 or 4 times as much. Many people also report that the stock configuration is still quite good so who knows if the mods are even necessary.

Now, however I will have to sell my LD MK III amp to be able to afford a new amplifier. I have placed the amp for sale but if it doesn't sell soon, I may withdraw it and see how it sounds with the DLIII.

 

[BBF3]

You could always get a basic USB->Toslink box and use it with the Lavry or anything else.

 

[erikzen]

That was what I was thinking at first but the more I read about the DLIII the more I like it. It has USB implementation, there are lots of mods available, and it's cheaper than the Lavry. The sound has also been described as more musical, which I think is more to my liking.

 

[erikzen]

Recap:

Sold:
SA5000
Little Dot MKIII
Ack dAck

Bought:
PS Audio Digital Link III, stock

Current gear:

Stax SR Lambda Professional
Denon MD5000DE (Lawton Audio with full mods and recable)
Grado HF-1

SRM 1/MKII
LISA III with LLP

PS Audio Digital Link III
SACD Mods Sony DVP-NS755V/NS775V

My next step is a new amp. I'm going to have to keep the budget pretty reasonable, say $600 or less. As much as I want a new tube amp, I'm going to live with the LISA III for a while and see what kind of synergy I get. I think a good solid state amp is going to be better for the Denons, but we'll see.

 

[jpelg]

Although I've never heard it, the PS Audio Digital Link III reads like a solid choice, especially at its current pricepoint. Should you decide you like it, the option for upgrades is nice too.

 

[IPodPJ]

The DL3 is a solid choice. You won't find a better DAC for the price, unless you DIY.

 

[erikzen]

Thanks for the votes of confidence guys.

jpelg, you'll be hearing the DL3 in about a month.

 

[Jodet]

I drove my Denon D5000's with a Sound Quest tube amp and it was a fabulous combination.

I'm seriously wondering if a WA6 would be a good match with them.

 

[erikzen]

Are you thinking the WA6 would be a good match?

I'm starting to twitch a little over amps. I've been listening from a modded disc player, into the LISA III and I do like what I'm hearing. Things are only going to get better when the DAC comes in but I'm wondering if I'm missing anything by using a "portable" amp, albeit a beefy one with an even beefier separate power supply, instead of a dedicated desktop. I'd love to go back to a tube amp but I'm not sure it's right for the Denons.

 

[erikzen]

I couldn't help myself and bought a used KICAS/Caliente amp. I'm not sure this is any type of upgrade from the LISA III but we will see. It seems more than a few people on the forums think that any full size amp will be better than any portable amp. Perhaps in this case there may be an exception.

The Caliente is a relatively small desktop amp and is powered by a wall wart. The LISA III is a relatively large portable amp with it's own dedicated power supply that costs almost as much as the amp and the total LISA III package is twice as much as the Caliente. I have no complaints over the LISA III except that maybe it's too good.

I probably shouldn't have bought this amp and I don't expect for it to be my long term solution, but I had some money left over from some previous sales, the amp was available in the for sale forum and the reviews and impressions have been almost universally positive. A discrete amplifier for less than $400? Sounded too good to pass up.

 

[erikzen]

The PS Audio Digital Link III arrived today.

I hooked it up with both an optical cable and a usb cable, so I can switch between a DVD transport and my computer.

When I first hooked it up, I was listening through the LIII amp and Denons and the bass sounded terrible. It sounded fine at lower levels, but when I turned it up I was getting these bass farts I had never heard before. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

So after listening for a few minutes I checked out my Stax. It sounded great but Stax don't produce the same kind of bass you get from the Denons, so I wasn't sure what was going on.

It looks like I had left the LISA III running on batteries and it had run down. I didn't really notice because I took apart my rig to situate the DAC. Even though I had it plugged in the battery may have been so run down that it needed a little while to charge.

After listening to the Stax for a while I went back to the Denons, threw on some Dire Straits, Brothers in Arms, from the computer, VBR MP3 files, and it is sounding damn good. I went back to my original test tracks played both through the optical transport and usb. Both sources farted out.

I did find out it that the level from the optical input is much higher than usb and sounds much more powerful and clear. Which could mean a problem somewhere from the computer to the DAC, or the usb implementation just isn't as good as the optical, which I can believe. Still it's damn convenient to be able to use the computer to listen casually even if you sacrifice a little sound quality.

Overall, the sound is much more powerful and spacious than with my previous DAC. People sometimes say a component is smooth but detailed; that's what this sounds like. I think it has a lot of potential if I can cure the bass problem. I also need to get my hands on a digital cable so I can try the rca, or maybe I should get balanced to rca? I mean until I break down and buy a balanced amp.

I am pretty amazed at how good it can sound after listening to a bunch of tracks for a couple of hours though. Even the tracks that were farting out sound beautiful right before they are about to distort.

Granted I had it up pretty loud but not ear bleed levels and it has me wondering if there is something wrong with my Denons. I'll have to break out the Predator and test them tomorrow.

I want to break out my Grados just to check but I need to get some sleep. I'm just going to keep my amp charging overnight and leave the DAC on to get it, and keep it, warmed up for a while.

 

[jpelg]

What test tracks are you using (music, test tones)?
What format are they in?
Are you using the same tracks on both the Sony & computer and getting the same "bass farting" results?
How did you burn them to CD/DVD?
Did you ever experience the "bass farting" with the Denons prior to using the DLIII?
Is the "bass farting" occurring without the DLIII in the circuit?
Are you using the single-ended RCA outs, or the balanced XLR outs?
Is there an option to vary the output level on the DLIII (jumpers, switches, trim pots)?

 

[erikzen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif What test tracks are you using (music, test tones)?

I used the CD "Maria Rita", a Brazilian jazz singer with traditional jazz and samba influences. Instrumentation is mostly acoustic.

Quote:

What format are they in?

I used both the original CD in the DVD player and PCM (.wav) files burned from the CD using EAC on my computer.

Quote:

Are you using the same tracks on both the Sony & computer and getting the same "bass farting" results?

Yes tracks 1 and 6 are my test tracks. With the DLIII I am able to switch between sources on the fly as well.

Quote:

How did you burn them to CD/DVD?

Exact Audio Copy without any compression. I just ripped the CD to .wav files.

Quote:

Did you ever experience the "bass farting" with the Denons prior to using the DLIII?

No. What I like most about the Denons is how low they can go and the powerful bass presentation. The irony here is that I'm trying to rebuild the system based on the Denons.

Quote:

Is the "bass farting" occurring without the DLIII in the circuit?

This is probably the key question. I did not take the DLIII out of the circuit yet. I was looking at other alternatives but since I only noticed the problem after introducing the DAC, logically you would think it is causing the problem. Hopefully tonight I'll have a chance to test this, although I don't know which is worse/better? If the Denons don't exhibit the problem straight from the Sony then I'll have to try and return the DAC. If the problem persists then there's something wrong with my headphones. I don't particularly like either scenario but perhaps the former is better, depending on the position of the seller.

Quote:

Are you using the single-ended RCA outs, or the balanced XLR outs?

I am using the single-ended RCA outs. I don't currently have XLR cables or XLR to RCA adaptors as I don't currently have an amp with balanced inputs.

Quote:

Is there an option to vary the output level on the DLIII (jumpers, switches, trim pots)?

Externally there is no way to vary the output level. There are only two buttons on the DAC, one to choose between sources, coaxial, optical, or usb, and one to choose the upsampling rate 96 khz or 192 khz and that's it. There may be ways internally to modify this but not in its stock configuration as far as I can tell and nothing is mentioned in the maual.

Since I didn't notice the problem until the DLIII was introduced, the logical assumption is a problem with the DAC. I will need to test the output directly from the Sony again. I also need to try another set of dynamic headphones.

Other alternatives might be that the capacitors in the DAC need to warm up more or the amp did not have enough power. The manual says to leave it on all the time so it is warmed up. The amp, since it does have a battery in it, may have needed a long charge. Over the two hours I was listening I did notice a great improvement in the sound after the LISA III had been plugged in for a while, but the distortion was still there at louder volumes.

I don't have the best cabling in the world right now and I don't even have a digital coaxial cable right now so I'll need to get that. My Toslink cable is not of the highest quality either. It's a plastic Radio Shack model, but I don't think a cable is going to cause the bass to distort so much.

Is it possible that the DAC is too good for my amp? Maybe it's passing too much information to it and it can't handle it.