Stacking magnets?

[Slater]

Okay, you got me! I’m curious. Can you link the magnets that you bought on Ali? So many magnets on there, it’s hard to choose. It would help me if you could link to a trusted seller of magnets that you are satisfied with. I’d like to try these with my pair of Sony Z7 which would seem to benefit from this mod. I’ll post my results and give you all the credit!

So I thought about this more, and while I can't guarantee a size that fits with the Sony Z7, I have found that a "safe" size of magnet that works for most drivers is the following:

• For 40mm drivers, 12mmx4mm round neodymium N50 magnet with hole works for a lot of drivers.
• For 50mm drivers, 15mmx5mm round neodymium N50 magnet with hole works for a lot of drivers.

Magnets are sold with different strengths - common ones you'll find are N35, N38, N50, and N52

I always get the N50 or N52 strength (which is the strongest gauss rating). If a seller or listing doesn't specifically list the N rating, I skip that seller.

I've got them from numerous sellers, and have never really had a problem. It's not like there's counterfeits. So I would say just get them from whomever you want. I've used Aliexpress, Gearbest, ebay, and Amazon in the past.

If you need to know what to search for on those sites, searching for something like "round neodymium magnets hole" is a surefire bet. Then look through the listings to find the size you need.

Depending on the size in the cup, you can get away with a larger or thicker size (for example, a 15mmx10mm). But be aware that often the thicker magnets are sometimes lower gauss, so you're not really gaining anything by getting a 15x10 N35 over a 15x5 N52. In that case, I would go with the more compact but stronger magnet.

The other advantage of sticking with the sizes I listed (12x4mm, 15x5mm) is that you can stack up 2 if you want, creating your own 15x10mm N52 for example. Note stacking 2 doesn't exactly double the gauss rating due to losses I mentioned in the very 1st post. Stacking up 2 will provide a 169% gauss increase, not a 200% increase (but it's still powerful as heck).

Again, the BEST solution would be to open up your headphone cups and measure the stock magnet to find out the biggest diameter magnet that will fit.

Hope that helps.

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

Have you noticed any pattern to how well a headphone responds to this mod in terms of type of cup configuration? To put it another way do you get better results with open headphones or closed?

 

[Slater]

Have you noticed any pattern to how well a headphone responds to this mod in terms of type of cup configuration? To put it another way do you get better results with open headphones or closed?

I've done it on both open and closed. I've noticed no difference in results.

 

[richard51]

I stack 2 neodymium rectangular magnets n35 40x20x5mm on each cups, with blutak on the exterior cups near the dynamic drivers but not directly on the driver, of my hybrid electro-acoustic and dynamic drivers Akg K 340, already modded, and I listen more clear bass , clearer sound and more definite bass, better voices... I will not dare to open it to place them at the interior though... The results are way desirable for me.... Thanks

I must added that my Akg are already modded with sorbothane for damping, agate+shungite,plastic grid mods, they were already TOTL, ,with the magnets now, I am short of words...I must add that a non modify AKG will perhaps be less affected than my already modified AKG, and my audio system is entirely treated against vibrations and the electrical grid of my house cleaned against EMI from the streetpost to the headphone,then my sensible system confirm what you said about these magnets... thanks very much indeed...

Update: definitely better, I listen to an indian cd of sarod and sitar,very difficult music to reproduce with the nuances and the nuances are way more there, without any negative impact at all....The tabla is more gorgeous...I had the impression that even the imaging is better...AKG K 340 are top imaging headphones,modded they kill any of my upgrade urge, I dont even listen to my 2 Stax anymore.. Goddam! i am happy to have stumble upon this thread...

Update2: Better integration of the 2 drivers....I think so,because before these 2 magnets mods, my Akg heavily damped and treated did not present to my conscious mind this associated incoherency between the 2 drivers that many reviewers speak about...Now I begin to figure out what they speaks about.... Even with my mods pair without the magnets there was a little residual incoherency now very much corrected....I think so...Thanks really...

 

[FastAndClean]

now i am curios what will happen if i buy the strongest magnets on aliexpress and try them

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

I always have it in the back of my mind whenever I am trolling Headfi threads that I want to find ways to improve my Philips SHP9500s. I really like them, but all I have done to improve them is simply upgrade the pads. I haven't seen anyone crack them open and do any kind of damping inside the cup or mods to the back of the drivers yet. It seems like once they find the right pads, most people are pretty happy with their 9500s....or it's a stepping stone and instead of modding them further they go on to some X2, Beyerdynamics or Sennheisers.
Which brings me to my second thought. I think one of the many differences between a good headphone and a great one is in the amount of thought and attention to detail that goes into things like internal damping, proper filters, etc.
I have never put too much thought into it, but perhaps one of the corners they choose to cut is in the size/strength of the magnets....
which means an easy way to improve the quality of the sound is by 'upgrading' the magnets strength?

 

[Slater]

now i am curios what will happen if i buy the strongest magnets on aliexpress and try them

Hopefully not this:

 

[WaffleIron]

Very cool thread. Bought some beefy 25mm x 20mm n52 magnets that I'll be chucking on some silk drivers with less than stellar magnets. I have a UMIK so I may be able to actually record the results.

 

[Slater]

Very cool thread. Bought some beefy 25mm x 20mm n52 magnets that I'll be chucking on some silk drivers with less than stellar magnets. I have a UMIK so I may be able to actually record the results.

That's a seriously beefy magnet! That's the size/strength I use on my car's oil filters.

One thing those interested in this mod should keep in mind is the final headphone weight when choosing magnets. On headphones such as the Philips A5 Pro I didn't do a magnet mod, because they are already quite heavy cans. So if your cans are already borderline, adding magnets that are really big might push them over the edge as far as comfort on the head. Some people are more sensitive to headphone weight than others.

 

[WaffleIron]

That's a seriously beefy magnet! That's the size/strength I use on my car's oil filters.

Bigger is better, as they say in America.

One thing those interested in this mod should keep in mind is the final headphone weight when choosing magnets

Yeah I was somewhat concerned about that. I ordered some smaller 20mm x 5mm magnets too just in case, but I'm not too worried.

 

[Slater]

Bigger is better, as they say in America.

Yeah I was somewhat concerned about that. I ordered some smaller 20mm x 5mm magnets too just in case, but I'm not too worried.

20mmx5mm N50 (with hole) is what I usually get. They are plenty powerful for headphones from what I've seen.

For example, the 20mmx5mm size (with hole) fits absolutely perfectly on the Philips Fidelio X2 in case anyone is wondering. It made an already great headphone even better sounding.

And that also gives me an idea - I've updated the 1st post in this thread with a 'running database' of magnets that work with various headphones. I'd love the database to grow beyond just my own headphones, so follow the guidelines in the 1st post to have your magnet data added to the database.

 

[kkl10]

Update: definitely better, I listen to an indian cd of sarod and sitar,very difficult music to reproduce with the nuances and the nuances are way more there, without any negative impact at all....The tabla is more gorgeous...I had the impression that even the imaging is better...AKG K 340 are top imaging headphones,modded they kill any of my upgrade urge, I dont even listen to my 2 Stax anymore.. Goddam! i am happy to have stumble upon this thread...

Update2: Better integration of the 2 drivers....I think so,because before these 2 magnets mods, my Akg heavily damped and treated did not present to my conscious mind this associated incoherency between the 2 drivers that many reviewers speak about...Now I begin to figure out what they speaks about.... Even in my mods,pair there was a little residual incoherency now very much corrected....I think so...Thanks really...

Better imaging, better coherence, better timbre, faster attack, better dynamics, blacker background, more transparency (you are there) are things that could be easily noticeable with particularly resolving headphones. I do notice these improvements with my GMP, especially if I stick stronger or more than 2 magnets per driver. In lower end headphones, there are other acoustic issues that might render these improvements unnoticeable or impossible.

Sticking a magnet directly on the back of the driver might also benefit the sound by virtue of the added weight, though. Less acoustic information is lost because the added inertia of the driver structure minimizes undue vibrations at the source. Mass loading not just the driver but the whole headphone brings big sonic benefits. As you probably know, doing it in a way that silences the structural ressonances of the headphones cups/structure also improves timbre. This is why wooden headphones tend to have better timbre. Wood ressonates much less than plastic or metal. I got my GMPs weighing almost 1 Kg... You get used to it .

Thanks for mentioning sorbothane. Never heard of it before. I had been using a type of sticky magnetic tape (stuff you put on fridge doors).

I think one of the many differences between a good headphone and a great one is in the amount of thought and attention to detail that goes into things like internal damping, proper filters, etc.
I have never put too much thought into it, but perhaps one of the corners they choose to cut is in the size/strength of the magnets....
which means an easy way to improve the quality of the sound is by 'upgrading' the magnets strength?

Most industry insiders probably know about this magnet modding potential for ages and probably leverage it for commercial benefit because quality custom-made magnets can be quite expensive. Wouldn't make any sense that this hasn't been explored by anyone before.

 

[richard51]

Update3: I stack a 3th magnet, 52n,(50x10x3mm) on top of the 2, 35n and guess what: little bit better on all counts....

Update4: more than a little bit better in fact....The Akg K 340 was almost perfect before that for me,now for me he is perfect....More body to the sound and at the same time more transparency....

 

[Slater]

Better imaging, better coherence, better timbre, faster attack, better dynamics, blacker background, more transparency (you are there) are things that could be easily noticeable with particularly resolving headphones. I do notice these improvements with my GMP, especially if I stick stronger or more than 2 magnets per driver. In lower end headphones, there are other acoustic issues that might render these improvements unnoticeable or impossible.

Sticking a magnet directly on the back of the driver might also benefit the sound by virtue of the added weight, though. Less acoustic information is lost because the added inertia of the driver structure minimizes undue vibrations at the source. Mass loading not just the driver but the whole headphone brings big sonic benefits. As you probably know, doing it in a way that silences the structural ressonances of the headphones cups/structure also improves timbre. This is why wooden headphones tend to have better timbre. Wood ressonates much less than plastic or metal. I got my GMPs weighing almost 1 Kg... You get used to it .

Thanks for mentioning sorbothane. Never heard of it before. I had been using a type of sticky magnetic tape (stuff you put on fridge doors).

Most industry insiders probably know about this magnet modding potential for ages and probably leverage it for commercial benefit because quality custom-made magnets can be quite expensive. Wouldn't make any sense that this hasn't been explored by anyone before.

That's actually a really good point about the added weight to the driver. I've known people that swore by adding bluetac (or modeling clay, silly putty, etc) to the stock driver's magnet made improvements (I assume due to the added mass, dampening, reduction in vibrations, etc).

 

[richard51]

I can assure you that sorbothane works marvel....I damp my headphones and speakers with it.... Not only did he absorb vibrations but transform a part of them in heat... I use blutak only to glue something not for damping...