[socrates63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampgalore This is exactly what happened when the SR-71 first got introduced... Now the Hornet. I see exactly the same pattern happening all over again. 1) Hype? 2) Marketing? 3) Hype and marketing induced mass hysteria? I lean towards 3) as the best overall explanation.

I'm a little confused with your posts. What's your point? People are enthused about the Hornet as they were about the SR-71. So?

Marketing, hype... these are all part of trying to sell goods and in agreement with you, I, too, am leaning towards 3 as an explanation for what's going on. I wouldn't use quite the language that you did to describe it. I'm currently caught up in all the Hornet excitement, but I wouldn't describe it as "mass hysteria" as I've only seen a handful of people make claims about the Hornet and I don't see any evidence of hysteria.

I read that Ray goes to meets with his products for people to try, and that's a part of his marketing strategy. But what is wrong with that? As long as lies and misinformation are not being propagated, I don't see an issue with Ray's grassroots marketing style nor people's enthusiasm for his products which, granted, may be colored with excess enthusiasm to some degree. But whatever the case, Ray really has connected with the people here on more than one level, and people have spoken with their wallets and brand loyalty. But what is wrong with that and how does that detract from the purity of the Head-Fi community?

I know marketers hire people to go to web forums and talk up their products. Is this what you're insinuating is going on with RS goods, that there is a conspiracy of some kind?

Or are you pointing to something else? In an earlier post, you said you're on a "crusade." What are you crusading?

 

[TooNice]

Are the differences in sound signature be favorable for one type of music over another?

Say I most commonly listen to JPop, Hip-Hop/Rap and Dance. And least often to Jazz, Blues, Folks. Also I hardly ever listen to live performances, but more "regular albums". I tend to prefer female vocals over male vocals (except for rap, where I am less picky with the gender).
Would one amp be potentially more appropriate than another based on my listening habbit?

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooNice Are the differences in sound signature be favorable for one type of music over another?

I would say probably if your tastes are like mine, I would see if you can arrange to give both a try at a meet. Is it a make or break sort of thing? I wouldn't think so, at least not the way that the headphones you select are...

 

[Borat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by recstar24 I concur - no its not god's gift to womankind (I am ), nor will it kill the major home amps out there. No its not going to replace the raptor, IMHO it takes a little bit more than meet conditions and a A/B box and actual extended listening to come to the realization that the Raptor is a superior amp home wise than the hornet. No its not going to save cats from trees or deliver babies or save hot women from burning houses (I am ). However, at its specific price point and for the features and sound that its been claimed to have, it will be pretty nice for the money, nothing more and nothing less

I was and currently remain skeptical of those who claim that the Hornet at $350 could match a $1200 tube home amp, from the same manufacturer no less. But your impressions hold more weight than your average meet goer because you have spent a considerable amount of time with Ray's products, particularly the Raptor since you reviewed it for 6moons and head-fi. So when I read this my ears pricked up.

But the post above is almost a complete 180° turn from your earlier impressions of "The Hornet." Previously you were very enthusiastic about the Hornet going so far to say you could not hear a single difference between it and the Raptor. Now the Hornet is just "pretty nice for the money?"

Now mind you, I was not going to buy a $350 product just because someone on the internets said it was good. I was looking at "the Hornet" because it has the features I was looking for in a portable (recharge capability, adjustable gain, etc.) I also want to buy from a manufacturer who supports the head-fi community. But this change in enthusiasm for the Hornet has got me a little confused.

 

[TooNice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer I would say probably if your tastes are like mine, I would see if you can arrange to give both a try at a meet. Is it a make or break sort of thing? I wouldn't think so, at least not the way that the headphones you select are...

Unfortunately, a meet is not really an option considering I live in the UK.
The best I can do is to evaluate everything being said, and partly let my budget decide.

 

[elrod-tom]

I recently read something by John Atkinson in Stereophile magazine that I think captures the issues surrounding A/B testing quite well. I don't have the magazine right in front of me, but I'll run down the exact quote later.

In short, he said that the problem with A/B testing is that there are significant nuances that don't present well in A/B testing. These can only be experienced with longer listening sessions.

I've spent some time with Ray's SR-71 and his Raptor. I don't mind telling you that I hear the difference quite clearly in an extended listening, though that A/B box messes me up.

Well, that's my $0.02...

 

[ken36]

Great thread for me to keep, chew and digest. Every time I get the itch, I'll read it again.

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom I recently read something by John Atkinson in Stereophile magazine that I think captures the issues surrounding A/B testing quite well. I don't have the magazine right in front of me, but I'll run down the exact quote later. In short, he said that the problem with A/B testing is that there are significant nuances that don't present well in A/B testing. These can only be experienced with longer listening sessions. I've spent some time with Ray's SR-71 and his Raptor. I don't mind telling you that I hear the difference quite clearly in an extended listening, though that A/B box messes me up. Well, that's my $0.02...

For me, a big pushing factor is that during an A/B session, if you cannot pick out the little differences between a $350 amp and a $1200 amp, then it's cool to go with the $350 one...

 

[erikzen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampgalore If all hype came out of thin air, then all the advertising agencies would be out of business.

I'm not talking about all hype and I never said it came out of thin air. I am saying the hype surrounding the SR-71 was primarily generated by the customers who were excited about the product.

Ad agencies do help promote products and companies, but if the product is not useful, the product life cycle will be very short lived. In this case however, I don't think Ray Samuels hired an ad agency.

 

[raaj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit For me, a big pushing factor is that during an A/B session, if you cannot pick out the little differences between a $350 amp and a $1200 amp, then it's cool to go with the $350 one...

Exactly.. I was a willing regular test dummy for Ray's switchbox shootout in the South Florida meets, where his SR-71 is put up against other big boy amps in his lineup as well as his competitors', and I must confess that even after all the time I spent in this hobby, I find it difficult to accurately pick the correct amp in the A/B switchbox comparison.

However, I am under no illusion that the SR-71 is an equal of a Stealth or MPX3 or Supra or Maestro or an Angstrom Two-box. However, even though I could afford a mega bucks amplifier, I resisted the urge to splurge because I no longer have the time to devote to critical listening sessions in the most optimal listening conditions. And for the quick hour or two that I spend listening to my music, the SR-71 has served me exceptionally well.

For my pattern of use, the SR-71 is at a sweet spot where I don't need the bad-boy amps that might squeeze out the minutest nuances that the SR-71 might miss out at roughly half the price. I take it with me on my frequent flight journeys, I listen to it in my hotel rooms, and when I come back home, I listen to my music through the SR-71 and a better source. For my money, I could not find a better all-round amp than the SR-71.

So, if you don't find yourself listening to music as if you were reviewing for Stereophile or Absolute Sound everytime you put your headphones on, then I would say SR-71 is more than up to the task of being true to the music, and IMHO, I haven't found many other amps I liked better at that price point. If the Hornet is better sounding than the SR-71 (as many claim it to be) at a smaller form factor and with better features, then the head-fi community should rejoice for having one more stellar amp to choose from at a very good price point.

All this bickering and innuendo about sleazy marketing practices is totally unfair to Ray, Mikhail, Norm, Tyll and many other manufacturers serving the head-fi community with their products.

 

[mjg]

its only obsolete if your involved in this hobby only to own the latest thing that is being sold as new, or flavor of the month.

I've been looking for something like this for awhile, didn't want to bone up the bigger bucks for an sr71, everyone at the meet loved the hornet, and it's got every feature i want (recharging etc).

I'd look at a supermacro as well, but what the hell. Im familiar with most of rays amps and i can enjoy this.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom I recently read something by John Atkinson in Stereophile magazine that I think captures the issues surrounding A/B testing quite well. I don't have the magazine right in front of me, but I'll run down the exact quote later. In short, he said that the problem with A/B testing is that there are significant nuances that don't present well in A/B testing. These can only be experienced with longer listening sessions. I've spent some time with Ray's SR-71 and his Raptor. I don't mind telling you that I hear the difference quite clearly in an extended listening, though that A/B box messes me up. Well, that's my $0.02...

I heard the Hornet at the last Florida meet using the a/b box with the Raptor and I couldn't tell the difference. This was during a 15 minute to 30 minute listening session. I don't believe the Hornet will displace the Raptor or most other higher end home amps. I agree with the above statements, that for me at least, a/b testing (as with Ray's switch box) is not the way to compare amps. I believe, for me, that living with an amp for a period of time is necessary before drawing any conclusions.

When I gave my opinions in the meet thread I was excited about hearing this new product. Is there hype about this product, of course there is. I couldn't wait to see the final case pics of the AE-1 yesterday. It's just the nature of being involved in this hobby that causes us to hype or over-hype a new product. This is hieghtened when you get to see the product and talk with the builder. I felt the same about the micro amp and dac at the meet. In fact, my micro dac is arriving tomorrow. It's when people, for some reason get upset that a particular product is getting hyped up and they use the opportunity to take shots at the product and builder. It is that attitude that gets posts deleted and threads locked. Constuctive criticism should be welcomed by a builder. People complained that the sr-71 only ran on batteries and could not be charged, out comes the Hornet. We get better products as a result of constructive criticism, we get threads locked as a result of malicious attacks.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom In short, he said that the problem with A/B testing is that there are significant nuances that don't present well in A/B testing. These can only be experienced with longer listening sessions.

It's an interesting thought, I personally am basing my comparison of the SR-71 and the HR-2 on having spent a couple of hours listening through the switchbox. I'm not sure if this is purely psychological or not though, i.e. wow, this amp is bigger and has shinier lights and chrome, it must sound better! I have somewhat mixed feelings personally since amps that I have listened to at length that I would not ever think to sound the same, did in fact sound the same. My conundrum is whether or not something about the A/B threw me off or whether I have just been lying to myself because one amp wieghed more and had shinier chrome...

 

[boodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit I doubt it. The Hornet and SR-71 have different sound signatures

did you listen to both of them ? could you tell some more ?

well , I'd like to extend my question to everyone who tried both - and maybe in particular to the ones who had the occasion of trying them with the grados ( hp2 if I have to be picky

fullstop )

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat But the post above is almost a complete 180° turn from your earlier impressions of "The Hornet." Previously you were very enthusiastic about the Hornet going so far to say you could not hear a single difference between it and the Raptor. Now the Hornet is just "pretty nice for the money?" Now mind you, I was not going to buy a $350 product just because someone on the internets said it was good. I was looking at "the Hornet" because it has the features I was looking for in a portable (recharge capability, adjustable gain, etc.) I also want to buy from a manufacturer who supports the head-fi community. But this change in enthusiasm for the Hornet has got me a little confused.

No need for confusion - it is hard to convey tone over the internet, i hope you realize

Sure, I am personally still enthused, but then i don't think its something that will bring down all raptors and any other tubed based home amp out there, that's silly. That took a little bit more listening than your average meet condition a/b kind of thing. Can it stand next to them and not be embarassed? Sure, no problem. Will it knock down the walls of jericho? ummm...i don't think so. It is pretty nice for the money, and last time i checked, that's a good thing. However, there are also other portable and home based amps that are pretty nice for the money as well, and each has something special to contribute to the community.