[SoupRKnowva]

Quote:

10,000 Days was unfortunately hit by loudness, but the rest of the catalog is great. Puscifer and Perfect Circle are fairly similar unfortunately.
 

 
it is a darn shame, cuase even in 2000 when lateralus came out, the loudness war was in full effect, but they managed to release a relatively spectacular sounding record. but 10,000 days took a turn for the worse...heres to hoping that the next record they go back and make another amazing sounding cd.
 
A side note, a HiFi store her in dayton had two tool songs in hi res that they got from boulder, cuase i guess Maynard uses boulder equipment...so i guess that some day in the not too distant future we'll be getting hi res versions of at least lateralus and 10,000 days. not that the hi res version of 10,000 days sounded any better unfortunately, it would have to be completely remastered

 

[mwilson]

Do we compensate with the amplifier for a bright for dull headphone? As a benchmark the “wire with gain” works, you may not like the net result, but hey that’s honesty. Sure you can willy nilly match for best synergy, I’ve hoped off that merry go round long ago, I’ll take a neutral amplifier and match the headphone to taste any day.

Thanks for your impressions, much appreciated.

My take on perfect measurements is this: since I don't listen with an oscilloscope, much less a multimeter, I'd rather have my eardrums tickled in a pleasant way by sound, than my ego stroked by data points. Is the BHSE bright? The LL dull like an airline knife? The 009 flawed like a politician? I have no idea, nor do I particularly care about their respective behaviors taken in isolation. What I've come to become interested in is their interaction, their performance as a system. In this regard, I happen to prefer one setup over the other. I lay no claim to be the purveyor of absolute truths, nor do I seek such, but rather I wanted to share my admittedly non-scientific impressions with the fora.

I also find it moderately interesting that most unprimed audiences (those not normally following head-fi) tend to prefer the LL/009 combo over the BHSE/009.

Again, and for context, my impressions solely pertain to the XXX/009 combo. Personally, I don't actually care for LL/007 mk I, and I've never heard those with the BHSE, so please don't generalize my notes with regard to these two amps.

Cheers!

 

[rubenpp]

^ +10,000

 

[n3rdling]

There's no such thing as an amp adding artificial detail.  I suppose the inputs are sucking energy out of the air?
 
This isn't directed at you wilson, just general thoughts I've had along the lines of the current discussions:
 
There seems to be a growing trend on HF that better measuring/more neutral stuff is somehow "artificial", "soulless", "clinical" or some such nonsense.  Surely being more accurate to the source material is artificial, and manages to make music sound more boring in the process.  If an amp is making your music suddenly suck, I assure you there is something seriously wrong and it certainly doesn't measure anywhere within the realm of neutral.  
 
I find it humorous that audiophiles consider EQ a no no because it will "mask the signal" etc but then shop for amps which do just that without even realizing their double standard.  
 
Regarding the BHSE vs LL:  I have a DIYBH and have heard the BHSE and LL multiple times.  The differences in my mind:
 
- LL is less resolving and is slightly duller sounding than the BHSE
- BHSE has better control of the frequency extremes (play something with both in conjunction to more easily hear the difference)
 
Overall I think potential owners would be happy with either.  Based on my conversations with other members in person, I think I hold the LL in higher regard than most experienced electrostat owners but for whatever reason they don't want to post their thoughts here.  I'd recommend potential buyers listen to both and make up their own mind.  If that's not a possibility, I'd get the BHSE - Justin should be charging more for it, it's a great deal as expensive as it may be.  If it sounds "too detailed" you can always slap on an EQ and get even more benefits. 

 If you find it's still too detailed I wouldn't even recommend getting another expensive amp: I'd say you're doing it wrong and need to try out a transformer based setup first.

 

[arnaud]

Lastly, since you seem to be French, and by definition you should be a wine drinker  , I am thinking of the BHSE as akin to a Pauillac (Chateau Lafite), whereas the LL is more like a Margaux (Chateau Margaux). Both are exceptional Bordeaux wines, but go about it different ways due to terroir, blending, etc. 

Thanks for your additional comments, I'll look into references in re to your cantata dac.

As for wines, you have very expensive tastes and I absolutely cannot relate !! These wines are all purchased by foreigners I think and, we french, just drink the cheaper "bordeaux superieur" and such . It gets even worse when you're a frenchy expatriated in Japan, I pretty much mostly buy wine from chili or argentine these days . Although we did open a dom perignon yesterday to celebrate a birthday in the family .

 

[arnaud]

Overall I think potential owners would be happy with either.  Based on my conversations with other members in person, I think I hold the LL in higher regard than most experienced electrostat owners but for whatever reason they don't want to post their thoughts here.  I'd recommend potential buyers listen to both and make up their own mind.  If that's not a possibility, I'd get the BHSE - Justin should be charging more for it, it's a great deal as expensive as it may be.  If it sounds "too detailed" you can always slap on an EQ and get even more benefits.   If you find it's still too detailed I wouldn't even recommend getting another expensive amp: I'd say you're doing it wrong and need to try out a transformer based setup first.

Thanks for the input n3rdling, even though I understand you are so new here and inexperienced with stat and audio gear in general . I guess I am going to have to resolve to a blind purchase at some point.

 

[arnaud]

LoL, don't worry, it gets better when they're 5. Hang in there and don't do something silly like having a second one like I did. Once the oldest was passed the f*ing fours, I had to do it all over again.   (almost there...the little guy turns five this March).

Hehe, I guess this is where I feel blessed with my two little angels, 1 and almost 3 year old girls. The 2 y.o discovered the meaning of potentiometer on the stax amp last night and marveled at the change in 009 loudness. She then wanted to experiment with the power button, and we had to cut the game short .

Actually, I don't know for you guys but the biggest thing stopping from going to amp / dac upgrade and what not is those 2 littles buggers. They take so much of my time (in a good way though, this is really precious) I am lucky if I listen to my rig more than 4 hours a week.

In that sense, even forgetting about school fees and all, it takes some thinking before plunking 5k or so in something you'll only use a tiny fraction of the time in the foreseable future ... But who said reason need apply here, I just need to jump already

 

[gilency]

Do we compensate with the amplifier for a bright for dull headphone? As a benchmark the “wire with gain” works, you may not like the net result, but hey that’s honesty. Sure you can willy nilly match for best synergy, I’ve hoped off that merry go round long ago, I’ll take a neutral amplifier and match the headphone to taste any day.

Thanks for your impressions, much appreciated.

John, I couldn't agree more. I would not think of building, much less buying an amplifier with less than honest to goodness sound without added distortion of any kind, however pleasing for others that may be.
And I wholeheartedly agree with n3rdling that equalization is better than 'matching' wires and equipment.
But again, it's just my humble opinion.

 

[mwilson]

Originally Posted by arnaud /img/forum/go_quote.gif


As for wines, you have very expensive tastes and I absolutely cannot relate !! These wines are all purchased by foreigners I think and, we french, just drink the cheaper "bordeaux superieur" and such

. It gets even worse when you're a frenchy expatriated in Japan, I pretty much mostly buy wine from chili or argentine these days

. Although we did open a dom perignon yesterday to celebrate a birthday in the family

.

 
 
Firstly, Happy Birthday to that member of your family. Secondly, I used those wines to relate to the BHSE and LL, given that neither are at the low end of the price spectrum. It's been a while since I myself had a Premier Cru.
 
 

 
Regarding the BHSE vs LL:  I have a DIYBH and have heard the BHSE and LL multiple times.  The differences in my mind:
 
- LL is less resolving and is slightly duller sounding than the BHSE
- BHSE has better control of the frequency extremes (play something with both in conjunction to more easily hear the difference)
 

 
The LL is anything but dull. I have no idea where this came from, but it's simply incorrect. This is almost like some complaining about the electrostats lacking bass - they don't; it's just more refined and better in quality/extension. I also didn't say the BHSE introduced detail - wouldn't that be called distorsion? 

 What I did say, however, is that the details, as rendered by the BHSE, tended to become distracting at times, to me and to my ears, at least.
 
I found that both the BHSE and the LL handle frequency extremes very well; I didn't find one better than the other in this regard.
 
Let's not forget though that I'm nitpicking; they both are exceptional amps, and, should there be no LL, I'd be very happy to consider a BHSE/009 combo.

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

The LL is anything but dull. I have no idea where this came from, but it's simply incorrect. This is almost like some complaining about the electrostats lacking bass - they don't; it's just more refined and better in quality/extension. I also didn't say the BHSE introduced detail - wouldn't that be called distorsion? 

 What I did say, however, is that the details, as rendered by the BHSE, tended to become distracting at times, to me and to my ears, at least.
 
I found that both the BHSE and the LL handle frequency extremes very well; I didn't find one better than the other in this regard.
 
Let's not forget though that I'm nitpicking; they both are exceptional amps, and, should there be no LL, I'd be very happy to consider a BHSE/009 combo.

 
 
Just for clarification mwilson, if you read n3rdling’s post properly, it came directly from his own personal experiences with the LL and BHSE.

 

[mwilson]

Quote:

 
Just for clarification mwilson, if you read n3rdling’s post properly, it came directly from his own personal experiences with the LL and BHSE.

 
I know. I should have used a better choice of words. I guess what I was getting at is I have no idea how one can say the LL sounds dull. Of course, it's his view, and he's entitled to it, just like I am to mine. Hey, these are good problems to have, debating detail level on top of the line amps 

 

[MorbidToaster]

While everyone has their own ears and what not I do kind of have to agree that it's anything but dull as well.
 
We all hear differently, but dull? I un no 'bout that one.
 
Quote:

 
Just for clarification mwilson, if you read n3rdling’s post properly, it came directly from his own personal experiences with the LL and BHSE.

 

[sridhar3]

I'd also respectfully disagree with the assessment of the LL sounding "dull".  The detail isn't as forward-sounding as that rendered by the BHSE, to my ears at least, but I wouldn't say detail is "lost" either.  I don't even find it "shelved back".  It's all there if you listen critically for detail, but I haven't done that since the first few hours of having taken it out of the box.  I don't have any issues with extension and energy either.
 
I prefer the O2mk1 with the BHSE.  As to which system (pairing) is better, I can't decide if one is better/worse than the other - they're just different-sounding to me.  The O2mk1 + BHSE gives a more laid-back sound than the LL + 009.  Different sounds for different days/moods.
 
IMHO.

 

[blubliss]

Another way to say dull is less precise and softer, is that ok with you guys?  This is what I heard from the LL, agree with n3rdling.  Now this can be a pleasant dullness and some people prefer that.  Fine.  Myself, I prefer to hear it all from the amp and use another source if I want another flavor.  For the 009, I have what I would call a no holds barred amp, the DIY T2, and a duller one, a DIY Aristaeus type amp.  I like both, but if I had to choose one, it would always be the more accurate T2.

 

[arnaud]

Reading again the reviews from playback magazine linked at the beginning of the thread, and comparing against all the impressions of users so far,I can't help but think the reviewer has mistakenly swaped his review notes for the BHSE and LL. So weired to read these now.