[jp_zer0]

I'd like to see the MS1i thrown in there.

 

[moogoob]

The SR60s are well known as one of the best price/performance cans out therem. It's still worth it to upgrade up the line, though. How far you go depends on your tastes/wallet density.

 

[carledwards]

SR60s are very good for the price. They're the mainstay in my portable rig for non-public/non-airline use.

 

[darlim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drubbing /img/forum/go_quote.gif I fail to see the ponit of this; they all have pretty much the same sound sig - why re you surprised they number up about the same?

Drubbing,

Agree with what you pointed out. Graphs for me, is purley a graph. For comparism and refernce. It will never influence my buying decision or imply the quality of the Phone or sound. I mean, sure some freq response is better on lower models vs higher model.. but it does not equate to being better. Or when freq Graph looks the same = same quality? It may most prob be market Espionaage at work. Wannabes phones are emulated to sound similar to successful ones? If its similar across the line of product for hte same brand.. i intrepret it as just similar style.

My phone purchase are based on listening and comparism and on my music preerence. Never let Graphs dictates your purchase. Long ago, i tot better freq Response = better phones.. i was blown when i listen to the SR60i and it was only 20-20! Much better than quite a number of phones with better response..

 

[MD1032]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drubbing /img/forum/go_quote.gif I fail to see the ponit of this; they all have pretty much the same sound sig - why re you surprised they number up about the same?

Bingo. This graph is exactly what most Grado users would probably expect, since all Grados are basically based on the same exact design.

darlim, I hate to say it, but frequency response is one of those figures that just kinda gets thrown around in headphones and doesn't make a real difference. In speakers, it's more important because you're interested in what the low-end limit of the woofer or sub-woofer is, for example, but headphones are almost always capable of covering the human range of hearing.

 

[Punnisher]

The SR60 is a great headphone.

I use them more than my SR325i actually.

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punnisher /img/forum/go_quote.gif The SR60 is a great headphone. I use them more than my SR325i actually.

No SR225?

 

[Punnisher]

Nope, I don't have those.

 

[Bilavideo]

When caution is advised in reading graphs, I agree. When graphs are dismissed, I don't. People may not always know how to read a graph, assuming that more is better when there are places where you want a little more here and a little less there. But graphs are not just modern art. They show patterns which are readable.

Up through about 3 kHz, the SR-60 matches, and sometimes outperforms, its rivals among the Prestige product line. It's really at around 3 kHz that the real differences show up, differences which have as much to do with the cushions than with anything else. I'm not really sure how current these graphs are, since the product line has been refitted so that you now have to go up to the 225s before you get doughnuts. If these are old numbers, they represent the original phones, which went with doughnuts from the SR-80 up. That, in itself, helps to explain some of the differences in HF performance, though clearly not all of them.

At about 5 kHz, there's a 5-7 dB difference between the SR-60 and the others. From 10-12 kHz, there's another wide gap, with the SR-60 delivering less. On the other hand, from 12 kHz to around 15 kHz, it flips a bit. Whether that's a goo thing or not, depends on the desirability of gain or loss in specific frequencies.

While I am also skeptical of graphs to a certain degree (as the process of getting the numbers may be subject to debate), and while I also think reading the graphs is more complicated than it looks, I think the "graphs are bunk" dismissal is equally questionable. Sound engineers do look at graphs, and they EQ tracks to enhance certain frequencies to best highlight the curb appeal of a given recording. Because some frequencies are more valued than others in the quest for the most euphonic presentation, reading a graph is obviously more involved than it looks. But graphs do show some obvious patterns. In the case of the SR-60, the differences don't really become noticeable until you get to the high end, which corresponds to what I heard with the original cushions. Doughnuts serve the high end better than the SR-60 cushions. Swap them out and you've made a fairly obvious difference. Some simply do the quarter mod to improve HF without buying doughnuts, though it would be interesting to examine the sonic differences between those two mods.

 

[chesebert]

wow, is KSC75 more balanced sounding than PS1000? and KSC75 was on sale for $14 at Radioshack! How can something that costs $14 be more balanced than something that's $1400!

OP, stop posting nonsense. HR FR graphs are useless.

 

[tribestros]

The graphs are absolutely pointless, I agree. It's irritating when people use them to back up why a certain headphone sucks or a certain headphone is good. Because honestly, especially when it comes to Grado, each has a significant color or style to them that differentiates them. Even brand to brand. Look at Koss. They may seem normal on a graph, but the tone is extremely dark on all their phones.

 

[Bilavideo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow, is KSC75 more balanced sounding than PS1000? and KSC75 was on sale for $14 at Radioshack! How can something that costs $14 be more balanced than something that's $1400! OP, stop posting nonsense. HR FR graphs are useless.

You don't think the graph you posted shows at least two 10 dB differences in performance between these two phones? If the graph is pointless and worthless, why are the lines different in the first place? Maybe math is nonsense, huh? Maybe we should just give in to the mysticism. I'm not suggesting that any graph can capture all of the differences between different phones, but to suggest that the graphs don't catch anything is to speak utter gibberish. So, for how long have you been an audio Amish?

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilavideo /img/forum/go_quote.gif You don't think the graph you posted shows at least two 10 dB differences in performance between these two phones? If the graph is pointless and worthless, why are the lines different in the first place? Maybe math is nonsense, huh? Maybe we should just give in to the mysticism. I'm not suggesting that any graph can capture all of the differences between different phones, but to suggest that the graphs don't catch anything is to speak utter gibberish. So, for how long have you been an audio Amish?

so which one do you think is more balanced based on the graph - ksc75 or PS1000? (that was the original assertion, I never said they have identical FR - please read carefully)

What about now? is KSC75 more balanced than Edition 8? Does SR60 beat out Edition 8? FYI Edition 8 is $1500.

I fee like I am wasting time; almost 1000 posts and still clueless.

 

[wang228]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilavideo /img/forum/go_quote.gif When caution is advised in reading graphs, I agree. When graphs are dismissed, I don't. People may not always know how to read a graph, assuming that more is better when there are places where you want a little more here and a little less there. But graphs are not just modern art. They show patterns which are readable.

Well-put. I'm of the same sentiment. If the same pads were used in all these grado measurements, I think these graphs do show something more objective than our ears do.

 

[tribestros]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilavideo /img/forum/go_quote.gif You don't think the graph you posted shows at least two 10 dB differences in performance between these two phones? If the graph is pointless and worthless, why are the lines different in the first place? Maybe math is nonsense, huh? Maybe we should just give in to the mysticism. I'm not suggesting that any graph can capture all of the differences between different phones, but to suggest that the graphs don't catch anything is to speak utter gibberish. So, for how long have you been an audio Amish?

Nice elitism there, bud. What he is saying is that there is more of a flat response on the Koss than the Grados by pointing out the peak in the high range on the Grados. Read before you reel off a demeaning post like that.