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Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
ok..great. We have a "noob" claiming he can "hear" the difference in Grados simply by looking at HR FR graphs; and an old timer who claims SR60 is more balanced than PS1000 and KSC75 simply by looking at the position of SR60 on HR FR graph (but why didn't he say KSC75 is more balanced than Edition 8 based on another graph?).
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First, calling this guy a noob is disrespectful and as irrelevant as calling me "an old timer." Second, I never claimed that the SR60 was "more balanced" than either the PS1000 or the KSC75. All you did was pick up a misstatement, made by someone else, and swallow it whole. The graph I brought up for discussion compared the bottom four headphones in the Prestige series (except for the iGrado). It said nothing about the 325, or the woodies, or the PS-1000, let alone the KSC75. If you're going to make sweeping criticisms, the least you can do is follow the plot.
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What's even more absurd is the claim that many, or 25-50% of the people, (note: presumably many means more than some but less than most, say 25% < x < 51%) will prefer KSC75 over PS1000.
I am speechless; the glory day of headfi has passed, I see. Welcome to the age of mass misinformation. |
You should know. Some of your comments are the definition of "mass information." You criticize as "absurd" the claim that "many, or 25-50% of the people . . . will prefer KSC75 over PS1000," but did anyone actually make such a claim? It must be fun to invent claims to criticize. But again, that's just absurd.
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| FYI, Koss sounds nothing like Grado despite similarities in their FR graphs as posted by HR. Since I am so nice, I will say it again: HR FR graphs are useless, use at your own peril. |
I wouldn't know as I've never heard either headphone, nor did I come here to suggest as much. But your criticism of me, as if I'd made such a claim, is, well, absurd.
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| If your idea of a +10dB peak based on the HR graph as dominating, then I really have nothing to tell you. Enjoy the "sound" of your HR FR graph |
There you go again. You're in such a hurry to cut me down that you don't have time to accurately portray what I'm saying. Ego is a blinding thing. My point was that graphs do have something to say. Your point is apparently that they have nothing to say - and to make your point more appealing, you have to paint me as saying that graphs say everything.
If only.
I was pointing out that a person could learn something from a graph, even the cherrypicked graph brought up to ridicule the idea of looking at graphs in the first place. I looked at that graph and stated what I thought it had to say:
1) That the PS-1000 has more representation of the low bass;
2) That the Koss is louder when it gets to the upper bass;
3) That the two phones had similar lines in the midrange; and
4) That the PS-1000 "dominated" in the HF, an awkward verb but one I used in my attempt to say that the PS-1000 has more presentation in the HF than the Koss, which seems to drop off.
Do the differences between these phones boil down to those four statements? No, but are those four statements "meaningless?" Are they inaccurate? Would someone listening to the PS-1000 not think it had "better" bass - at least at the low end? Would that same person hear the Koss trying to produce its version of bass at the upper-bass frequencies? Would such a person hear more HF from the PS-1000 than from the Koss?
I don't know. I've never heard either headphone. I didn't come here to discuss either phone. I pointed to a graph that was comparing four Grados from the prestige series. These other two phones were thrown into this discussion in an attempt to speak of how absurd it is to even look at a graph when discussing headphones. How utterly dismissive! I don't know how it makes sense to talk about open-air headphones with closed minds but I guess that's de rigeur, and anyone who says otherwise is either a "noob" or an "old timer" who is obviously "clueless."
If I were to assume that the PS-1000 had the sound others have ascribed to it, including its more prominent bass, and that the $14 Koss headphone were some junky throw-away headphone, the four statements above - suggested by the graph - would hardly seem "absurd" or "meaningless." Would I expect the PS-1000 to have better bass than a piece of plastic with some wires hanging from it? Yeah, sure. Would I expect the PS-1000 to be more prominent in its presentation of HF? I would certainly hope so. Would I expect the cheaper headphone to attempt some kind of punchy mid- or upper-bass? Stranger things have happened. Would it be out of the question for a cheap headphone to have, as its most reliable feature, a midrange that performed better than its low-lows or high-highs? I suspect not.
The claim was made that these two headphones have the same specs. I don't think they do. If that leaves you speechless, maybe that's not such a bad thing after all.
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| If you like SR60, that's fine. Stop justifying your reasoning by appealing to the totally useless HR FR graph. |
Why all of the hostility towards a poor, defenseless, graph? Did I come here to say it cured cancer? I think not. I came here to open up a discussion about that graph. If your only contribution to that discussion is to throw rocks at all graphs, what have you accomplished?
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| Please also stop justifying your purchase by thinking all other more expensive grados are just tweaked SR60 (or you can't hear the difference). |
I didn't say the more expensive Grados "are just tweaked SR60" nor did I say I "can't hear the difference." I've owned most of the Grado products, from the iGrado to the SR60, the SR80, the RS-325i, the RS-1 and the GS-1000. I skipped the SR-125 and the SR-225, as well as the RS-2 (Make your judgments if you must). I have yet to find a compelling reason (and a wad of cash big enough) to buy a PS-1000. I thought I spoke of ways in which the RS-1 still sounded better than my SR-60, as well as ways in which my SR-60 sounds better now than it did before I made changes to it. You keep wanting to take me to task for things you would like me to have said so that you can play the "You're so absurd" card. It's getting pretty tedious.
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| In the greater headphone world, SR60 is just another entry level headphone; only good for the money (same thing can be said of ibud (free), px100/200, and ksc35/75, none of which is good, just good for the money) |
Thank you, Mr. Ambassador of "the greater headphone world," but as I already own the RS-1 and the GS-1000, I don't need lessons on how these more expensive offerings sound better than the SR-60. To say the SR-60 is "only good for the money" may make you quite the audio snob, but it's not an argument so much as a dismissal. This is where I'm supposed to have been put in my place by your greater authority and knowledge, but parroting what you've heard other people say doesn't make you more correct. If I'm "clueless," maybe it's because I don't take as gospel what other people say. If you even bothered to do more than Evelyn Wood my comments, you'd know where I spoke of the SR-60 as coming up short. But I guess it wouldn't be as much fun for you if you couldn't argue against the straw man. Lots of luck with that.
