[bernado]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSky0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm surprised you say that the S9 has more bass extension than the X, I guess Cowon must have really improved on that since I found it badly lacking on the D2.

Yes they have and yes it was

 

[Duncan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kite7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is the S9 really that bad under normal settings in comparison to the X? Was it worse than the fuze?

Its not neccesarily bad in its own right, but - when you're comparing to the stock sound of the Sony X, then - yes, the S9 has to pull out its BBE ViVa to draw level...

...I cannot comment on the Fuze though, about the only player that I don't have at the moment lol...

 

[spuddler]

Hi,excellent review,very informative.


Cheers BOB

 

[dura]

Beautifyul review.
Two very slight remarks coming form a satisfied X-owner, neither of them very important:
- I would advice against using clear stereo; it states in the manual to only use it with the supplied phones. Interesting is that my A808 had 3 settings; OFF, ON without exiension cord, ON with extension cord; this makesm e suspect it is either targetted on correcting the very slight channel disbalance caused by the a-symetrical J-cord, or else a EQ-ing targetting on specific phones. No big deal the effect is subtle anyway.
- as an extra feature the is the Youtube button; listening to a song you press it and can view clips of the same song, other songs by the same artist, other artist doing the same song etc.

Again, slight remarks, great review.

 

[toughnut]

LOL at Duncan siggy.

Nice review, techfreakazoid. Very informative and through.

 

[Barry]

This review is just what I was looking for. Thank you.

 

[Neeley]

Nice review but turn off clear audio on the X, it narrows the stage if you listen carefully.

 

[dosley01]

IMHO, I don't think having BBE enabled on any device offers a fair comparison. That is almost like comparing a conventional 2 channel stereo system to a Dolby surround system. I prefer to use my DAPs with no sound enhancements and flat EQs.

 

[Barry]

I was also concerned about the comparison before I came to the conclusion that each DAP comes with its own sound signature partially due to its own pre-programed equalization and processing. Like headphones, I don't think that DAPs are "flat" out of the box.

The issue for me is whether when I add my own preferences, or in this case the BBE, how does it sound? For ipods, for example, the equalization comes at the expense of overall sound quality. The pre programmed eq for Sony seems sufficient to me, but perhaps the Cowon has less pre programming, leaving it to the end user to add his or her own. In any case, I saw no downside to using the BBE with my D2 and so don't mind the comparison. In each case, the unit would be as I would use it and thus a fair, real life comparison.

I have the Sony in house and have ordered the Cowon. One of them is going back once I make the comparison.

 

[Buckster]

I ordered a Sony X today - will be here tomorrow

will then ciompare vs my Touch 2G

doesn't BBE enabled on the S9 really mess with the EQ ?

from another forum

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Compa...%20Test/fr.png

 

[insomniax]

i went over to my cousin's house to hear his x1050 over the weekend so that i could write a small impressions primer before Duncan could post his...and since now Duncan has given up, i think there is little value left of the teaser eh?

A few points to note:
1. X wins s9 hands down out of the box without EQ. I think everyone who owns either can safely make that statement. I'll go as far to say its a fact even though i own an s9.
But what i should mention is that the X's sound is slightly colored even when unEQed.

2. I'll have to disagree with techfreakazoid on the bass. Leaving Sony unEQed is too much of a handicap for bass. It seems to be nitpicking but you did not mentioned X's Clear Bass setting, which is really one of their strengths. Notch for notch, Clear Bass on X is improved quantity, quality compared to Mach3Bass on s9. Impact, extension and rumble, s9's bass has nothing on the X.

My short opinions yields such :
Bass - X
Mids - s9
Highs - X/s9
Attack/Decay - X
Soundstage/Separation - X/s9
Clarity - s9

 

[Barry]

Interesting- so you found the soundstage on the X to be wider than the S9? I don't have both for comparison, but this is different than the experience of the OP. Not challenging you - DAPs are very difficult for me to compare - but just wanted to make sure I understand you.

Thanks

 

[techfreakazoid]

Thank you all for the kind words. I've gained invaluable knowledge from fellow Head-Fi'ers over the years and wanted to share the experience. I don't visit Head-Fi daily so there may be a lag in response to your PMs and this thread.


Quote:

Originally Posted by a_tumiwa /img/forum/go_quote.gif good impression only need Samsung P3 to the comparison and this thread is perfect (or change fuze to samsung P3)

Haha, the P3 would cover all the bases. I'll probably take a look at the Zune HD if it's a worthy contender in the audio dept.


Quote:

Originally Posted by nkk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know this in ony to your ears etc, but you just made me a lot less nervous about choosing the S9 over the X (mainly classical, jazz, and some classic rock). Thank you. -Nkk

Glad I could ease your concerns. The S9 will perform admirably for your genres.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckster /img/forum/go_quote.gif what a great post- thanks for taking the time to compare, and then write-up. I have a Touch 2G already - but about to buy a X series - it would have been a more difficult choice if the S9 was about the same price- but as its more expensive, then the X series is my choice.

Regional price variances is a given these days with the volatile markets, oil prices, local OEM/retailer competition, etc. so shop wisely.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HONEYBOY /img/forum/go_quote.gif Great Job techfreakazoid!! Really great review, am pretty sure this would be one of the more valuable reviews for folks considering any of these DAPs. The Cowon S9 does sound tempting but I think I'll stick with the X since it seems that it has a more forward sounding mid-range that complements my FX500 and IE8. If I had the SE530 I might have chosen otherwise so as you rightly indicated component synergy might be crucial One question, The X is the most natural sounding player I've heard so I'd like to know if the applying of those BBE Viva effects takes away from the naturalness of the S9. A brief note on the naturalness in presentation between the X and the S9 would be very welcomed, Thanks!

Thanks HB. No doubt, the X is a fine audio player. BBE ViVA sounds natural to my ears. I did not detect any exaggerated or overprocessed elements in electronic or classical genres. BBE ViVA 2 is the max I would go before things sound forced. Perhaps the midrange-rich E500 provides the smoothing counterbalance in the equation. The X is very smooth and for certain tracks, polite in its presentation. I like a little texture in my vocals as it seems more real world.


Quote:

Originally Posted by DTKZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the detailed comparison. I think you made a typo though. You have the X listed twice at different prices for the Canadian market under the value section. One question. If you use Clearbass at max and EQ the bottom end as high as it can go on the X and you do whatever is the equivalent on the S9, which has the greater bass quantity? And under those settings, which has better bass definition?

Yes, thanks for pointing out the typo. The S9 (and not the X) is C$294 and I've made the correction.

While I may listen to some bassy genres, I'm no basshead. After desensitizing my ears to the requested bass settings

, I find they're both comparable in definition. I set Clear Bass to 3 on the X and BBE Mach3Bass on the S9. There is no bass EQ on the X; the left-most EQ is 400 Hz and that's midrange territory. There is an X-Bass option on the S9 with even more bass than BBE Mach3Bass, but it sounds bloated and painful to my ears. If you love bass, BBE Mach3Bass sounds more natural without impacting the rest of the frequency ranges.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Awesome This comparison on the most part mirrors my own thoughts Apologies if this has been covered (am on my cell on the train, so may have easily missed this)... One area that the Sony comfortably beats the Cowon on is format support... Yes, the Cowon supports more formats generally, but without support for .m4a files, those upgrading from Apple / itunes store purchases will be high and dry without transcoding... If the Cowon suppported .m4a, I would've said it was in contention for PMP of the year, but without... for sake of backwards compatibility I would give that crown to the Sony (for now at least)

Glad we're on the same wavelength.

Yes, I concur if you're migrating from the Apple experience with a large .m4a library, then the X will simplify your life. However, batch transcoding programs are pretty convenient and you can just let them run overnight if you have a sizeable music collection.


Quote:

Originally Posted by gameboy115 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks your review, S9 seems better to me, I love bigger soundstage player . Not to mention it is cheaper

I see you have the SE530 and I feel it has the better synergy with the S9.


Quote:

Originally Posted by nywytboy68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Excellent comparison/reviews of these players. I'm so glad I managed to find your thread, it's made my mourning!!!! Thank you!!!!!

Glad I could bring some sunshine to your day!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dippyboy_87 /img/forum/go_quote.gif this is the review which is actually useful for anyone contemplating buying any one of these daps. a nice write-up. and we want more of these in the future.. thanks again techfreakazoid!

I tried to strike a balance between writing for an audience of prospective buyers and current owners. No plans to become a Skylab as it's a time-consuming process documenting all the nuances.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeon [09] /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wonderful review and impressions. Almost felt I was there listening. Now go plug your Shure E500/SE530 in a HiFiMan!

Haha. I'm curious about the HiFiMAN, but it needs to ship in quantity first.


Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSky0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Excellent review, really analysed to a ridiculously thorough extent. I'm surprised you say that the S9 has more bass extension than the X, I guess Cowon must have really improved on that since I found it badly lacking on the D2.

I have not heard the D2 so can't comment on its 'improvements.'


Quote:

Originally Posted by kite7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is the S9 really that bad under normal settings in comparison to the X? Was it worse than the fuze?

Yes, the S9's Normal setting is unexciting. The X easily beats the S9 under Normal. S9 (Normal) sounds better than the Fuze. Unfortunately, there's no E500 synergy with the Fuze.

 

[DeusEx]

Another vote for the Samsung P3!

 

[techfreakazoid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dura /img/forum/go_quote.gif Beautifyul review. Two very slight remarks coming form a satisfied X-owner, neither of them very important: - I would advice against using clear stereo; it states in the manual to only use it with the supplied phones. Interesting is that my A808 had 3 settings; OFF, ON without exiension cord, ON with extension cord; this makesm e suspect it is either targetted on correcting the very slight channel disbalance caused by the a-symetrical J-cord, or else a EQ-ing targetting on specific phones. No big deal the effect is subtle anyway. - as an extra feature the is the Youtube button; listening to a song you press it and can view clips of the same song, other songs by the same artist, other artist doing the same song etc. Again, slight remarks, great review.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neeley /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nice review but turn off clear audio on the X, it narrows the stage if you listen carefully.

Interesting comments, dura. I tried with Clear Stereo - Off and the soundstage seems to be slightly bigger than turned on, though the S9 soundstage is still larger. I added YouTube to the Misc Features and good point about the YT integration.


Quote:

Originally Posted by dosley01 /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMHO, I don't think having BBE enabled on any device offers a fair comparison. That is almost like comparing a conventional 2 channel stereo system to a Dolby surround system. I prefer to use my DAPs with no sound enhancements and flat EQs.

I hear you. With flat settings, the X comes out on top and my OP would be short and sweet. That being said, BBE+ sounds very natural to my ears and I feel this audio technology is worth a listen.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was also concerned about the comparison before I came to the conclusion that each DAP comes with its own sound signature partially due to its own pre-programed equalization and processing. Like headphones, I don't think that DAPs are "flat" out of the box. The issue for me is whether when I add my own preferences, or in this case the BBE, how does it sound? For ipods, for example, the equalization comes at the expense of overall sound quality. The pre programmed eq for Sony seems sufficient to me, but perhaps the Cowon has less pre programming, leaving it to the end user to add his or her own. In any case, I saw no downside to using the BBE with my D2 and so don't mind the comparison. In each case, the unit would be as I would use it and thus a fair, real life comparison. I have the Sony in house and have ordered the Cowon. One of them is going back once I make the comparison.

Well said. Each OEM has their sound signatures and the X and S9 have their flavoring. Both offer some (well-implemented) spices to finetune your audio taste buds. It boils down to your listening preferences and choice of phones.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckster /img/forum/go_quote.gif doesn't BBE enabled on the S9 really mess with the EQ ? from another forum http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Compa...%20Test/fr.png

Perhaps. I try not to overanalyze FR charts and focus more on what's being piped to my ear canals. At the end of the day, it's about music and does it put a smile on your face or trigger goose bumps? For me, the S9-E500 pairing did both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by insomniax /img/forum/go_quote.gif 2. I'll have to disagree with techfreakazoid on the bass. Leaving Sony unEQed is too much of a handicap for bass. It seems to be nitpicking but you did not mentioned X's Clear Bass setting, which is really one of their strengths. Notch for notch, Clear Bass on X is improved quantity, quality compared to Mach3Bass on s9. Impact, extension and rumble, s9's bass has nothing on the X. My short opinions yields such : Bass - X Mids - s9 Highs - X/s9 Attack/Decay - X Soundstage/Separation - X/s9 Clarity - s9

Valid points, insomniax. Yes, Clear Bass on the X will boost bass quantity and impact. I did not want to trek down the path of one setting on player X (no pun intended) trumps player Y; hence, trying to keep things constant i.e., flat, and prevent moving target comparisons. But your point is taken, in that Clear Bass is a well-implemented bass boost. Clear Bass set at 1 sounds similar to BBE ViVA. I'm no basshead and find anything beyond BBE ViVA 2 a bit unnatural.