[SilverEars]

If it's a demo unit then it's most likely using SBC & it hasn't been broken in enough.

SBC vs another codec isn't going to improve the bass performance. I'll guarantee you that. Quality of the transducer is most important, and it's obvious it's not the bit rate that's causing the low bass performance. LDAC isn't going to magically save it's transducer performance.

So, you're saying I need to break it to get it from how it sounds? That's laughable. How much do you expect for it to change? So, I break it in for 500 hrs and it magically becomes the best bass headphone ever? Get real dude.

 

[tcellguy]

The bass on mine tightened up after 30 hours and became less boomy than out of the box. Still pretty loose compared to even ATH-m50s though. They do sound better wired and the dragonfly red is a nice pairing. This model has an upgraded DAC though and the sound quality really is improved vs. the prior models. I’m very happy with the upgrade in sound quality from the M1. If they could make a headphone as resolving as an MSR7 though it’d be even better.

The majority of the noise canceling is in the low frequency range to my ears. I’ve only compared to the QC35 and the MSR7-NC and the permformance of the 1000x series (all models) was superior in my testing. Sounds like fans, AC units, etc are greatly reduced. Voices are only mildly reduced and mostly passively. High frequency attenuation is variable and depends on getting a good seal.

One improvement in the ANC in the M3 vs. M1 is with wind noise. The M1 ANC was nearly unusable in high wind conditions and generated a loud tearing noise. The M3 seems to have attenuated that well.

I think the reviews suggest the B and W and Sennheiser ANC headphones have better sound quality but less noise canceling.

It’s great that so many companies are getting into ANC headphones.

 

[davidmthekidd]

The bass on mine tightened up after 30 hours and became less boomy than out of the box. Still pretty loose compared to even ATH-m50s though. They do sound better wired and the dragonfly red is a nice pairing. This model has an upgraded DAC though and the sound quality really is improved vs. the prior models. I’m very happy with the upgrade in sound quality from the M1. If they could make a headphone as resolving as an MSR7 though it’d be even better.

The majority of the noise canceling is in the low frequency range to my ears. I’ve only compared to the QC35 and the MSR7-NC and the permformance of the 1000x series (all models) was superior in my testing. Sounds like fans, AC units, etc are greatly reduced. Voices are only mildly reduced and mostly passively. High frequency attenuation is variable and depends on getting a good seal.

One improvement in the ANC in the M3 vs. M1 is with wind noise. The M1 ANC was nearly unusable in high wind conditions and generated a loud tearing noise. The M3 seems to have attenuated that well.

I think the reviews suggest the B and W and Sennheiser ANC headphones have better sound quality but less noise canceling.

It’s great that so many companies are getting into ANC headphones.

The Noise Cancelling tech on the Sennheiser line is very weak, I could barely tell the difference between Active NC and Passive NC. The comfort of the M3's remind me of the (Bose AE2 Around-Ear Audio Headphones) from years back, they are very comfy.

 

[SilverEars]

The Noise Cancelling tech on the Sennheiser line is very weak, I could barely tell the difference between Active NC and Passive NC. The comfort of the M3's remind me of the (Bose AE2 Around-Ear Audio Headphones) from years back, they are very comfy.

I don't know where he got this info from, but he's saying the NC performance is improved on wider spectrum of frequencies, and supposedly high frequency cancellation performance is more challengin than lower. I find that passive noise isolation performs better for high frequencies, which is illustrated with the ER4 Isolation response (which is one of the most extreme example of passive noise isolation). If you look at the noise isolation response graphs of headphones and iems, it's generally the case.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/EtymoticER4XR.pdf

Question is, what range was the past models cancelled out best at, and with the new models, what is the range? We can see by comparing Rtings measurements of iems with the most passive isolation to ANC headphones to see if ANC truly does reduce noise better.

I'm waiting for Rtings test of XM3's NC performance. The real truth will come out from it.

Here is QC 35 II



Here is 1000XM2

 

[SilverEars]

Based on those graphs, the higher frequencies are isolated better already, so it's irrelevant if ANC performs better in the highs unless noise generally got reduced. Anyway, I take hearsay with a grain of salt unless proven.

 

[Hubert481]

I already showed the xm3 chart - put it was ignored.
https://www.lesnumeriques.com/casque-audio/sony-wh-1000xm3-p45685/test.html

Better isolation without ANC in the hiher frequencies

 

[bcollier]

Does anyone who now owns the XM3 have any feedback on sound quality vs the sennheiser momentum wireless 2.0? This has been my go-to in the form factor for a while, and I can probably learn to live without the "connect to 2 devices simultaneously" if sound quality is equivalent but noise cancelling is much better.

 

[tcellguy]

Based on those graphs, the higher frequencies are isolated better already, so it's irrelevant if ANC performs better in the highs unless noise generally got reduced. Anyway, I take hearsay with a grain of salt unless proven.

The challenge with these curves is that that they plot noise reduction, but it's hard to get an overall sense of how the headphones can perform in a real environment as the absolute magnitude of low frequency dB in environments may be lower than the mids (e.g. office with people taking). While the curve demonstrates the highs and mids are the most reduced, those are in fact the frequencies that I hear most intruding beyond the ANC.

I have yet to see a demonstration of ANC that really decreases voices. I've A/B'd back and forth with the M1 and M3 with people talking nearby and no music playing and can't discern any difference in reduction between the two headphones with ANC on (still can clearly hear talking even at 50-60 dB speech volumes). With music on I can't discern voices anymore, but this would also be true of closed non ANC headphones in many cases. High frequency sounds like snapping sounds can even seem more pronounced in the setting of the relatively reduced lower frequency noise spectrum.

More directly to your question though, from this Sony cartoon it seems like perhaps the ANC in the mids have been improved. However, at least vs. the M1 I can't discern any improvement in that region. I agree, it will be interesting to see a more detailed / formal comparison of the headphones.

 

[openbaffle9978]

No ANC headphone is going to be able to do as good of a job at cancelling frequencies > Schroeder frequency as it does < Schroeder frequency. It's just simple physics. All of these headphones rely on deconstruction interference to actively cancel out LF sounds. When the sounds are continuous, low in frequency and not changing much in amplitude or modulating (think drone of an airplane), it's super easy to flip the phase and drop the perceived energy in those frequency by 20 dB. This is the same reason why it's easier to flatten out the low frequency response of a room by adding more subwoofers and adjusting the amplitude and phase response of those subs.

Where the bulk of the energy of voice is, you have to rely on passive means to attenuate the sound. Look at the reduction curve of something like a ER4XR or even a pair of 3M Peltor X5A. So you'd have to have the body of an X5A coupled with the active noise-canecelling of a 35 II or XM3 for maximum reductive of LF sounds and voices. However, I don't think there would be much appetite for a headphone as bulky as an X5A with bluetooth and ANC.

That is why some have recommending putting muffs on over a high quality pair of IEMs for maximum reduction of voices.

 

[JoshG1217]

I don't get why the qc35 is a litmus test for anything. It's just really blah. Same for m50x ... And really anything I've heard from audio Technica. Are the M3 better than the m50x? Umm, yes. That's not even a valid comparison. Are they better than the MSR7? Don't know. I haven't heard those, but if they are like the ws 1100i, then hell yeah. Those are awful.

The sound quality on these is much much better. As good as other $400 wired headphones I've listened to, and pretty close to DT 1770 (which should be a $450 headphone).

 

[ixidor]

I don't get why the qc35 is a litmus test for anything. It's just really blah. Same for m50x ... And really anything I've heard from audio Technica. Are the M3 better than the m50x? Umm, yes. That's not even a valid comparison. Are they better than the MSR7? Don't know. I haven't heard those, but if they are like the ws 1100i, then hell yeah. Those are awful.

The sound quality on these is much much better. As good as other $400 wired headphones I've listened to, and pretty close to DT 1770 (which should be a $450 headphone).

I agree, the only litmus QC35 ever had served ~was~ industry-leading ANC, they were never up there in terms of sound quality. Dat smart-switching between 2 connected Bluetooth devices though, I'm gonna miss that.

 

[Hubert481]

What is the best SQ in a quiet room

Cable connected with anc
Cable connected without anc
Bt with anc
Bt without anc
....
????

 

[dweaver]

Well in a moment of insanity I just went and bought a pair of these 1000XM3 ...

Aside from the insanity of spending just shy of $500 Canadian on the spur of the moment these sound damned good! I get that the signature won't agree with everyone but they sound perfect my ears. Now I am using an S9 phone using LDAC for the best possible sound experience.

I tried playing with the settings and one thing I tried and then quickly turned back off is DHSEE it made my music sound weird and hollow. So if anyone has a hollow sound check to see if that setting in the headphone app has been accidentally enabled.

Sitting in a busy Tim Hortons as I type this and sound is present but so far removed all I really hear is Patricia Barber and co playing... Volume level between 1/3 and 1/2.

 

[Maddog510]

Well in a moment of insanity I just went and bought a pair of these 1000XM3 ...

Aside from the insanity of spending just shy of $500 Canadian on the spur of the moment these sound damned good! I get that the signature won't agree with everyone but they sound perfect my ears. Now I am using an S9 phone using LDAC for the best possible sound experience.

I tried playing with the settings and one thing I tried and then quickly turned back off is DHSEE it made my music sound weird and hollow. So if anyone has a hollow sound check to see if that setting in the headphone app has been accidentally enabled.

Sitting in a busy Tim Hortons as I type this and sound is present but so far removed all I really hear is Patricia Barber and co playing... Volume level between 1/3 and 1/2.

The DSHEE only works when the headphones are on SBC or AAC. It'll show in the app right next to the coded when its enabled.

 

[dweaver]

Wonder why it let's me turn it on in LDAC mode then. In any case it sounds way better when turned off.

Awesome sounding headphone so far. But I am a fan of the Sony sound so that doesn't surprise me.

Listening to some Peter Gabriel at the moment, still in Tim Hortons and I only really hear people during quiet parts of the music and in between tracks. Even then the din is just a subdued whisper...