[neil74]

colleagues in my office sometimes take my xm4 (in th past) or xm5 (today) and listen to a couple of songs via my samsung s22 utltra / ldac. they then connect it with their iphone and are confused why "it sounds different"...


my example from above happened around 10 times at work.


exactly, otherwise you compare apples with pears.

Was your phone forced to 990 when they listened on yours?

Were their phones forced to 990 when they listened on theirs? Also were you both using the same streaming service and quality? If you are on Tidal and they are on Spotify that could explain some of it

This is an interesting discussion and one I have mused on for a while, not just for Bluetooth but codecs in general.

 

[starepiernikowe]

I agree with the image it is great and no hint of grain in the treble even with a boost.

Yup.
I have to say that 16 kHz boost for me is to muffled.
It is my dream to have open headphones sound in closed ones

What I really like is that side image feels that it starts from the back end of the ear, xm4 were more frontal.

 

[neil74]

Knowledge comes from discussion.
Let's not be afraid of it.
One of the purposes of a lossy audio codec is to achieve perceptual audio transparency.
As many tests over the years shown, transparency is achieved by correct codec design and implementation, not amount of bitrate.
It's a general knowledge that modern implementation audio codecs at bitrates above 300 kbps in 99,999% are perceptually transparent.

So, in those terms; making an audio lossy codec at 900kbps, one can say it is in fact a "snake oil".
If there is an audible difference in the final product between those codecs; it must be purposeful by the designing company.

I will say that for me, ldac is more metallic but has a bit more air to it.
I'm also aware, that this can be a placebo, because of the lag when switching, and the fact that I know I'm switching it.
I would argue, differences if any, are because headphones are designed this way.
Not because of codec quality.
Which is entirely my point.

My comments on LDAC being snake oil were not saying that at optimal settings it is not better (although I think as others have argued well above that may be debatable) but that for most people without tinkering they will not be getting the best LDAC can offer. If my phone and the M5s supported APTX-HD I’d use that and not give LDAC another thought.

Hopefully Apple or someone came come up with a new transmission method that takes Bluetooth off the table, there have been rumours.

 

[J Mirra]

Yup.
I have to say that 16 kHz boost for me is to muffled.
It is my dream to have open headphones sound in closed ones

What I really like is that side image feels that it starts from the back end of the ear, xm4 were more frontal.

It is strange when I love the already 6k boosted HD800 that I prefer not to boost around there with the XM5 as it already sounds like it has energy in that region to me.
Ear shape, canal shape all plays its part. Plus we all have different preferences, its great we can set what we like to hear in the app and take that to every other device we use

 

[starepiernikowe]

My comments on LDAC being snake oil were not saying that at optimal settings it is not better (although I think as others have argued well above that may be debatable) but that for most people without tinkering they will not be getting the best LDAC can offer. If my phone and the M5s supported APTX-HD I’d use that and not give LDAC another thought.

Hopefully Apple or someone came come up with a new transmission method that takes Bluetooth off the table, there have been rumours.

That is true.
I will tell you that it irritates me in the opposite way.
I have go to developer options to change ldac to sbc; and I would prefer if it remembered my preferences

 

[starepiernikowe]

It is strange when I love the already 6k boosted HD800 that I prefer not to boost around there with the XM5 as it already sounds like it has energy in that region to me.
Ear shape, canal shape all plays its part. Plus we all have different preferences, its great we can set what we like to hear in the app and take that to every other device we use

Exactly, it's impossible to have "one fits all".
But searching and trying what others like, helps us find what we prefer.

 

[The1Signature]

Was your phone forced to 990 when they listened on yours?

Were their phones forced to 990 when they listened on theirs? Also were you both using the same streaming service and quality? If you are on Tidal and they are on Spotify that could explain some of it

This is an interesting discussion and one I have mused on for a while, not just for Bluetooth but codecs in general.

i have a samsung s22 ultra, so ldac does not to be forced, it is automatically chosen.

they have an iphone 13 pro.

of course same conditions: spotify, same settings, same (spotify) playlist.

 

[neil74]

i have a samsung s22 ultra, so ldac does not to be forced, it is automatically chosen.

It does via developer settings if you want the higher quality LDAC quality, sorry I thought you said that you did this yesterday? Transparency arguments aside LDAC 990 forced vs. an iPhone at AAC may well be noticeable, that was not my point.

If you are both using Spotify though I very much doubt that any percieved quality difference is down to LDAC.

 

[The1Signature]

most of us have tidal, too. you hear it even more there.

 

[starepiernikowe]

most of us have tidal, too. you hear it even more there.

Did you check things like Dolby Atmos or other audio stuff; is turned off?
Are those apps configured the same way?

 

[PointyFox]

just basic comparison without any eq adjustments at all.

No. Was talking the about the headphones making the adjustments.

 

[monsterquake]

This headphones are a disaster for sony

Got mine yesterday, after a day of test

1- One ear sounds weaker than the other. I'm not the only one, multiple people on reddit and twitter have the same problem
2- auto ANC without any option to set it manyally

The ANC engine is simply not good. It changes from ear to ear in a dynamic way, but it is extremely problematic.

The max setting of the ANC, is good, the problem is you cannot adjust it manually and then are forced to use whatever ANC level the headphones decide for you. But, 99% of the time is just annoying, the ANC too weak and taking a lot of time to adjust between situations.

This kind of headphones have a limited life on the selves, usually from 12 to 18 months, not like classic wired headphones, so the brands do not invest anything at all in fixing the software problems, making it a 99% sure that sony will never address the ANC problems nor the ear difference in volumen levels.

And this problems, I detected them by myself and then searching find that we are a lot of people with them, not just reading about them and then thinking magically I have the same. Shame on every reviewer that didn't mention it, at least the problematic dynamic non-manual like the previous XM ANC. I could understand the difference in volume is just a bad quality control and my unit is faulty, but the ANC is not.

Avoid, do not touch this headphones with a 10 foot pole.

 

[Gamerlingual]

This headphones are a disaster for sony

Got mine yesterday, after a day of test

1- One ear sounds weaker than the other. I'm not the only one, multiple people on reddit and twitter have the same problem
2- auto ANC without any option to set it manyally

The ANC engine is simply not good. It changes from ear to ear in a dynamic way, but it is extremely problematic.

The max setting of the ANC, is good, the problem is you cannot adjust it manually and then are forced to use whatever ANC level the headphones decide for you. But, 99% of the time is just annoying, the ANC too weak and taking a lot of time to adjust between situations.

This kind of headphones have a limited life on the selves, usually from 12 to 18 months, not like classic wired headphones, so the brands do not invest anything at all in fixing the software problems, making it a 99% sure that sony will never address the ANC problems nor the ear difference in volumen levels.

And this problems, I detected them by myself and then searching find that we are a lot of people with them, not just reading about them and then thinking magically I have the same. Shame on every reviewer that didn't mention it, at least the problematic dynamic non-manual like the previous XM ANC. I could understand the difference in volume is just a bad quality control and my unit is faulty, but the ANC is not.

Avoid, do not touch this headphones with a 10 foot pole.

I don’t have these problems. But not even unit will be perfect. Every now and then, a defective one will pop up. It’s the nature of the beast

 

[monsterquake]

I don’t have these problems. But not even unit will be perfect. Every now and then, a defective one will pop up. It’s the nature of the beast

you may not have the lower volume ear problem as that could be a faulty unit. Also, with more test, I've determined it isn't, it's a problem of the software. I lastly tried the headphones connected through cable, everything works fine as expected. Then you turn on the ANC and it craps all over the place again.

have 100% sure the ANC problem as that is a software one and happens to 100% of the units.

If you have not experimented the ANC problem, then it is because you are using them on a super-stable situation, like in front of a fan or something like that.

If you use them on variable noise environments like commuting with buses, trains or even an office where the volume levels are not constant, you will have the problem and will find the XM5 ANC completely useless to the point that they are not even worth 20€ because the dynamic ANC ends being more annoying than helpful. And to make things worse, sony deliberately disabled it the manual settings so there is nothing you can do to fix it.

 

[starepiernikowe]

you may not have the lower volume ear problem as that could be a faulty unit. Also, with more test, I've determined it isn't, it's a problem of the software. I lastly tried the headphones connected through cable, everything works fine as expected. Then you turn on the ANC and it craps all over the place again.

have 100% sure the ANC problem as that is a software one and happens to 100% of the units.

If you have not experimented the ANC problem, then it is because you are using them on a super-stable situation, like in front of a fan or something like that.

If you use them on variable noise environments like commuting with buses, trains or even an office where the volume levels are not constant, you will have the problem and will find the XM5 ANC completely useless to the point that they are not even worth 20€ because the dynamic ANC ends being more annoying than helpful. And to make things worse, sony deliberately disabled it the manual settings so there is nothing you can do to fix it.

I work in a very dynamic acoustically environment and I have only positives to say about those headphones.
If there is something wrong with your unit, or your are not satisfied with the product; return it.
And frankly your post is the first that I read about xm5 being faulty.
Please refer me to the Reddit posts.
Please describe problems with adaptive anc?
Adaptive anc can't foresee the future, so yes, you will hear the difference in operation.
It can be observed when starting to speak.
I agree that adaptive anc should be an option in settings.