[GrussGott]

Hmm, reading all the negative comment makes me rethink getting a pair of xm4s. I now use a pair of Bose QC25 for when I commute and at the office. Not satisfied with them any longer. So what should I look at?

Which negative comments? What's are your priorities? What trade-offs are you willing to make? What do you listen to and in what mix? What are you playing them from? etc eetc Without knowing any of that it's impossible for anyone to make an informed recommendation. In absence of that:

* If you're heavy into the Apple ecosystem and don't mind the price - apple
* If you're heavy into calls and/or business use, Bose
* If you're heavy into music fidelity, Dali IO-6 or Shure Aonic 50
* If you need all arounders but prioritize cancelling low freq hum, Sony 1000xM3
* If you need all arounders but prioritize cancelling high freq "cafe talk", Sony 1000xM4
* No ANC? Pandas or AKC 361 or 371
Of course if you want specific features like LDAC, AptXHD, multi-device, auto-pausing, touch controls, etc that'll also affect reccos.

There are other options of course like B&W, Senns, etc but in general those would be my picks of bunch.

I will say for me, having been trying these for 10 years, the xM4s are the first pair I've ever been happy with for 5 key reasons:

* Sound profile - these ain't gonna be like ZMF Verite - but with adjustment they're pretty good; I will be getting the IO-6 for purely music though
* Auto-pause/play/ANC w/talking - can't say how much I love this feature; i would buy the xM4 for this alone.
* Multi-device - nothing super unique but it's very handy
* LDAC - honestly I'm not sure if this helps or not, but given I think they sound pretty good when tuned I'll assume it does
* ANC - it's the first ANC that' actually useful to me because it significantly reduces babies crying, talking, music, and other background noise I don't like. Regular ANC that cancels low freq hum like airplane hum, air conditioning, etc is more/less useless to me because it simply makes the talking louder by removing the white noise.

They also charge insanely fast and last awhile - i will typically use them daily & nightly and they last for 4-5 days and recharge in 10 min.

 

[Roney]

the xM4s are the first pair I've ever been happy with

Thank you for a most informative answer. I now have a few thinks to think about.

 

[TheoS53]

 

[GrussGott]

Excellent review! I couldn't agree more with most of the points made - for me the auto/start/pause w/ talking is worth the price alone. ultimately I returned the M3s because I'd rather use my B&W P7s that don't have ANC than M3s which cancel hum thus making talking/babies/clinking louder while also sounding much worse than the M3s. The M4s add much better high freq noise canceling, are decent sounding with tuned, AND have that awesome auto/pause/restart feature so they're keepers.

 

[jmkeuning]

* Multi-device - nothing super unique but it's very handy

It is working for you? It's not working for me. It's supposed to disconnect from A and connect to B when you start playing on B. But it stays on A for up to a minute.

Searching the internet for info produces a lot of people with the same experience.

How are you using it?

 

[jmkeuning]

Maybe I'll replace my actual Bose Quietcomfort 35 II for the Sony 1000XM4.
Do you think there is enough change or improvement that justify the 300 euro ?
Specially I 'm thinking in better sound quality, more than noise cancelling.
thank you

I have both right now and I am picking one over the other. I am going with Bose.

I have no other experience with NC headphones, so this is my first experience.

Bose are more comfortable. A little more ear room make a difference to me. Also the headband does not hurt, even after 5+ hours. The Sony hurt after about 3 hours.

Sound. They are so close that I can't say I prefer one over the other. If anything, the Bose seems a little more natural, and I like that.

And the multipoint on the Sony does not work like they say it does. It does not stop one device when the other starts. It's totally not reliable.

 

[GrussGott]

It is working for you?

Yes, i'm using a macbook pro and android phones:

If I'm listening to a video or Tidal on my laptop and a call comes in on my phone, the M4s pause the laptop source and switch to the phone, I take the call, and then when I hang up, it switches back to laptop and unpauses whatever was playing.

Same with auto-pause when talking - it'll pause whatever you're listening to, turn off ANC, turn on ambient; then if you're quiet for ~15 seconds or double-tap the right earcup it auto restarts ANC and audio.

I've read of this being spotty for people but for me it's instant - the only trouble I've had if you can call it that is using it with power tools: occasionally if I"m using a drill or similar on a particularly tough job the HPs will auto-pause - I'm assuming it pick up the vibration through my arm.

In summary, no problem with auto-pause/source-switching using a laptop for audio and a phone for phone calls.

 

[GrussGott]

It is working for you? It's not working for me. It's supposed to disconnect from A and connect to B when you start playing on B. But it stays on A for up to a minute.

I should've added that it seems to matter which device connects first - it's worked flawless for me when the phone is the first device and the laptop is "bluetooth 2nd device connected".

For me, whenever I turn on my headphones, my phone is always near and it connects instantly but I have to initiate connection on my laptop. It works perfect that way, but I do remember having a challenge when I first set them up

 

[Murdie]

Yo i just wrote on another thread I am new to the forum and joined because of these headphones and specificly the 360 reality which searching this thread hasn't been mentioned alot. Which blows my mind because it is without doubt as i say to this other guy
" and the 360 reality is pure witchcraft that I like (you use a sony phone app to take pictures of your ears, I am not kidding, at it uploads the shape profile to the headphones for 360 tracks playback), a very different listening experience (can only listen via tidal deezer nugs and amazon music hd at the moment and limited content) been listening to miles davis kind of blue and comparing the 24 bit flac 192 vs 360 reality audio very different experience. very significantly different to just headphone construction open closed on the stereo flac, so that's something new and very different. the xm4 are listed a 360 reality on the box I don't know about xm3 via update."

I would have started its own thread in the music section of this forum because it blew my mind how different it sounds. even compared to the arctis 7 closed back the sony is still quite different.
" The key to experiencing 360 Reality Audio in hardware, is that each product will need to have Sony’s custom decoder built-in. "
So if you have these headphones and you haven't optimized and uploaded your headphone profile to the streaming apps (yes it uploads the profile to your tidal or whatever) you should.
I know people who have open headphones want a more natural sound stage but as of right now open headphones don't work with 360 reality I think its designed with closed backs in mind. and compared to 360 reality on this album IMHO the open can't compete for a width of soundstage on closed back sonys that opens are trying to do with the stereo Hi-res the detail is still with the hi-res but the width isnt in the same league with these headphones with 360 reality.

it is certainly the biggest change to how we hear a music album I have ever heard via headphones. in kind of blue its like all the sources are within 4 ft of my head. and in 360 reality i am about 50 ft back. it makes the the original stereo flac 24 bit 192 seem crass by example, and thats a hella of a thing to say about this album.

But its not without some errors but it is diffrent it just blows my mind there is no designated thread on this on these boards (or at least I have found, and I would create one if i could).

Oh there a 360 reality voucher in the box which gave me 3 months free subscription when i choose nugs (live concerts 360 reality) I already had a tidal subscription you could choose that too.

I would be curious to hear how others have found especially if you ran the optimiser on these headphones. it because there doesn't seem like theres much chatter on this. which for audiophiles is surprising. thats why I joined up actually

 

[GrussGott]

I would be curious to hear how others have found especially if you ran the optimiser on these headphones. it because there doesn't seem like theres much chatter on this. which for audiophiles is surprising. thats why I joined up actually

I've done the setup including tidal, and have tried it with their playlist "360 Reality Audio" and, for me, it wasn't much of a change, however I think the real question is, compared to what?

My normal set up for music are ZMF Eikons which are closed and while not ZMF's TOTL I do prefer their sound to the Verite and one of the reasons is imaging. With the mid-fi gear I have now (modius+jot bal or CTH SE) the ZMFs sound great and the imaging gives me a larger feel of space than the 360 but ...

Of course that's an extremely unfair comparison (xm4s bt vs Eikons wired), however just pointing out that with a decent rig it leaves a bit of an expectations gap for 360 audio; so my guess is most people who really like the 360 may move up to some dedicated wired music headphones.

With that, I'll give it another try and see if anything's changed ... and the Tidal playlist above is pretty sparse (for my taste) - is there other Tidal content I should be trying? You mentioned live concerts?

 

[GrussGott]

been listening to miles davis kind of blue

Just went and did some back-to-backs of Freddie Freeloader switching between the Sonys bt 360 and my ZMFs - ignoring the sound signature, i do have to say the 360 audio sounded like it was in a much larger club, though still intimate, and the ZMF much more intimate. So there's something to it!

 

[Murdie]

yeah on tidal you think its just a collection of tracks in a playlist. but If you select a song then go to album it brings up the whole lot. so I use the tidal 360 playlist that way. I listened to "So what" off the album via wired and ldac, open and closed and even iem comparing a45 walkman 24/196 with phone dac and eventually the tidal software codec both stereo master and 360R.

heres a review via someone external.
https://www.techhive.com/article/3519268/sony-360-reality-audio-review.html

there seems to be 2 emerging object based formats for music sony 360 reality and dolby atmos
https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/dolby-atmos-music-everything-you-need-to-know

I agree that on my wired 24/ 196 playback there is more intimate feel on the stereo playback with more detail but the space of the stage no contest I have gripes with the 360 reality recording and I aint going to tell you that 1 is better than the other because I can't do that.

Upto now we have had 5.1 mixs via sacd and bluray focused on speakers for the most part. and Although there has been a push for a while to get 5.1 on headphones via mix amps in gaming they just don't do that well. A long time ago i thought dolby headphone where good but it never really went any where.

If your reading this post and think oh its a dsp like equalizer setting on the device THIS IS NOT. they are trash they take stereo track and apply a filter. engineers have built these tracks at the studio level and for 360 reality it seems to me to be headphone focused. I have seen comment complaining how 1000mx4 dropped atx hd and gave me 360 reality. which they didn't want.

To them I'd say ldac has broad support on devices these days and whilst i agree that having apt x hd is nice. I can say that having 360 reality what ever sony have done to these cans is much more impactful and its discovery is better than the bt codec of hi-res which btw is still trash compared to wired. (I have tracks at 5000kbps that need to fit down a 990k BT ldac pipe so how is it going to do that without compression.) Wired ALL DAY LONG if given the choice and preferably to a decent dac.

to surmise I don't think all albums are going to benefit to 360 reality and maybe not even to specific cans as said in my earlier post. I have owned kinda of blue for 20 years, via cd then Hi-res yip take my money. and the thing is we have all consumed our music via stereo recordings for a very long time and we have a bias especially via headphones, I certainly have to kinda of blue.
BUT i found my self asking "if they had this technology to do this back in 1959 and could mix it would they be upset by this?" and the fact I even asked this question shows that I had accepted this this over all previous attempts of a spacious stage. AND THATS IMPORTANT. ...as the artist intended is a line we hear often. for jazz and this album its about the space (it fills a room) and interplay of the instruments.

While I don't agree to some of the engineering I have now heard this and can't unhear it. and if you told me this was all a gimmick and I had to distroy it and deny people the experience of listening to this via headphones this way, I fight you in the streets for it. it has a right to exist and live on.

There will be days I want the stereo version (4ft) but days I want the 360 audio (or object oriented recording atmos or otherwise, i prefer a 25ft setting to my imagined 50 ft of this recording) and I would gladly pay for both to be in my collection. it would be a crime not to allow miles to be experienced in this way. I wish he was hear to give it his blessing and that can't happen and that is in itself a sticking point about doing this to old albums. it's going to be tricky for artist " the way intended" for Nils frahm for example it's the reverb and stillness in the space of the recording. to experience it as close to point of creation is a thing and preferable in person. How artist like him are going to juggle the resources at the engineering table I don't know (stereo focused or object orientated focus). But we are the start of this object oriented stuff really (I think reality 360 launched nov 2019)

So if anything prior to buying these cans I had never heard 360 reality, SO Thank you SONY I knew about dolby headphone in the past. and 5.1 7.1 surround stuff that was for speakers but none of them sounded great at space in headphones. This object oriented stuff this is something here. its early days but yeah I now want BD hifiman akg senn and others to bring cans optimized to object oriented codecs. I want stand alone dacs that support atmos and 360R we obviously have have the tech now for headphones to try spatial beyond bs DSP arena, rock, music hall, jazz hall of the past I want to hear more, especially if the artist is onboard with the atmos 360R track creation.

I ain't consigning stereo to the bin no way. I have listened to stuff that way for decades it has its place its going nowhere.

 

[GrussGott]

It is working for you? It's not working for me. It's supposed to disconnect from A and connect to B when you start playing on B. But it stays on A for up to a minute.

Searching the internet for info produces a lot of people with the same experience.

How are you using it?

Just in case this helps anyone, I've done some experimenting with this lately. my setup is always a macbook pro (though I've tried a few), and an android phone (also tried a few).

Initial connection of 2 devices:
• Haven't had any problem and it mostly does it automatically. E.g., as soon I turn on my sony's they connect to my phone right away - if the laptop is open w/ BT on, the sonys will connect after about 3-5 seconds as a 2nd device. (and they announce 2nd device connected)

Operation of music/video from either device:
• As long is nothing is playing on the other device, the device you play stuff from works; i.e., if you're listening to music on the phone, stop it, then start a video on the laptop it works fine & vice-versa or any combination of that.

Incoming Calls:
• This gets a bit tricky ... first I have to adjust for the delay if the phone is the only device connected: it's about 3-5 seconds, i.e., with just the phone, it's not instant and that's not unique to the Sonys; all BT headsets I have (which is a lot) do this. Ok, so let's say I'm listening to a podcast on my laptop and a call comes in: the sonys will ring from my laptop first almost instantly, but after about 3-5 seconds the phone ring takes over the sonys. So that means if I answer right away the call is going through my laptop, but if I wait for the phone, then the call goes through my phone. If I do use the phone, after the call ends I can restart the podcast from my laptop.

In short, it works as I'd expect, no better but no worse than normal ... and it does provide some benefit for me because I prefer to take calls from my phone which the Sonys all me to do without messing about: just wait until the phone ring comes in and answer it.

UPDATE WEEKS LATER:
Multi-device still working fine, 1st device connects instantly, 2nd device takes 3-5 seconds (unless you initiate it) and the order is based on which is available and/or the last 2 devices connected.

Point #1:
It gets just a bit trickier depending on how many devices you've been routinely connecting ...

Example: you have 8 devices you routinely connect to, 1 of them is available - it'll connect instantly ... but let's say it was your previous 2nd device OR your previous 2nd device isn't available; then sometimes no 2nd device will auto connect, you have to initiate it.

In short, it's a bit unpredictable which devices connect in a complex BT environment; it should be noted this is no different than any other BT device / headphones / speakers I have which are ~10 I use routinely and of the 50+ BT devices I have the sonys are in the top tier with their BT behavior.

Point #2:
Small detail, but when your first 2 devices connect you get voice announcements but when your *2nd device* disconnects due to distance you get a funny tone which took me a few months to figure out. So basically you have 2 devices connected, then walk out of range of device 2 with device 1 - after a while you get this weird tone that's not in any manuals.

 

[KPzypher]

Has anyone tried the new Dekoni pads for these?

 

[ArchDragoon]

Has anyone tried the new Dekoni pads for these?

The Dekoni EarPadz for the Sony WH1000XM4 are currently undergoing a revision process due to an unexpected QC concern.

Sales on existing XM4 pads are currently being recalled, and we expect the revised XM4 pads to be available by early-mid March.

To make sure you don't miss the full release, be sure to subscribe to our email list for the latest news and more!

*From Dekoni site.