[boodi]

nice read ..
what can I add ..

don't get cd3000 if you search for "some" bass , even few . they're not the right cans

really . If you are going to listen to a lot of genres too they're not the right cans .

My exp. with the cd3000 was VERY thin and I sold them in short while - too low-fi in many ways , for my ears

and mho ps-1 are more hi fidelity then cd3000 (mho) and hp-2 are much more hi fidelity then cd3000 ; I'm pointing this out just in the case of interest for fidelity .

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I did not enjoy the GS1000s and found them really sibilant in the highs but I want to give them another crack. The ps1s to me as of right now are leagues better.

I've heard that on mine as well with badly recorded material. The HE-90s suffer the same fate, but I think good recordings benefit from the highs being very extended. The GS-1000s certainly either fit the bill or make you wonder how anyone can stand them.

The PS-1 are great for recordings with harsh highs. Helps to smooth them out without suffering from the "veil (IMHO) of the Senns. They also excel with quality recordings. Very lush and liquid. Yet detailed.

Mmmm Led zep w/ beer and speakers, definitely

 

[khbaur330162]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boodi /img/forum/go_quote.gif My exp. with the cd3000 was VERY thin and I sold them in short while - too low-fi in many ways , for my ears

Meh. I'll just have to settle with the fact that I'll NEVER understand what these types of people are talking about until I maybe acquire a pair of stock driver housings. Tiger Direct/Partstore here I come, I guess.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak /img/forum/go_quote.gif LZ does sound great on the K1000, but I don't think they demand such a big soundstage (just my preferences).

Enter K340s. BTW, I just emailed Larry to get my reterminated with the 4-pin to use with the tail and the F1. Since I'm back loving these headphones, I have to treat them right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvs_75 /img/forum/go_quote.gif In every review about CD3000 I read everybody said that they don't have enough bass! Does the CD3000 have bass of the Denons?

The bass is fine: clean, fast, tight. I've not read those reviews, but the only thing I can think those people might be doing is confusing the emphasis these headphones place on the treble for lack of bass. Those aren't the same thing imo. I don't find them lacking in bass at all, but the treble is more forward (a bit too much for my taste), so the bass doesn't "seem" as present.

I didn't like the bass in the AH-D5000. It was full, but a bit too undefined.

***************

Okay, I'm back with some more impressions. John let me take the CD3000s home so here's my home set up: Exemplar modded Denon 2900>SinglePower Extreme Platinum (headphone amp and pre-amp)>FirstWatt F1. Last night I played the same two CDs and the results were similar. This evening, I started messing around with tubes, switched things out to two Bendix 6080s and a KenRad blackglass 6SN7GT, and the results were strikingly different, with the R10s loving Zeppelin to the point I forgot I was doing a comparison and just turned up the volume and kicked back with a smile on my face.

This little shoot out has emphatically proved to me one more time that small changes in gear make huge differences with some headphones. John didn't like the PS1s with Soundquest 84. I think I might have been less gracious than he when he said, "they suck," with this amp. The bass had no definition and blended into the lower mids which seemed to disappear. These were not the PS1s I met only a few weeks prior. If I'd only heard them through that amp, I would not have suspected that they were great headphones. Switch on over to the HD2...and wow. Sure, they don't have the superb imaging I've grown used to, but so what!!! They have detail, speed, and weight, and if I ever need a definition of PRAT, I'm thinking of PS1s. Through John's Wadia and Eddie Current HD2, the bass is in perfect balance (not so with the Soundquest). When I switched out the tubes today in my Extreme, the R10s came alive, the CD3000s got some body, and the K1000s and K340s took a back seat (they both responded better to TungSol 5998s and a Bendix 12au7WA). Go figure. Some of you more technically inclined guys may know the whys and whats (I regularly have trouble with just a round peg in a round hole), but I do know that sometimes even the best cans can sound crappy and be easily dismissed if paired with the wrong gear. The differences, at least with the PS1s, R10s and CD3000s, were fairly dramatic. I spent less time with the K1000s and K340s today, so won't much go into that.

When I got home last night, I listened again to Veneer and Zep II. Today, I added the DVD audio of Zeppelin's How the West Was Won, and Ali Farka Touré and Toumani Diabaté’s In the Heart of the Moon. Tomorrow, I'll try out some classical and jazz.

PS1s

No PS1s today. Smart move, John, not letting me take them home. You would have trouble getting them back. My memory is a bit fogged from a lot of listening since last night, but since they'd made a visit to my home once before, I'll try to construct my best impressions. Super tight, clean headphones. Stunning attack. Weeks prior, listening to Duke Ellington's Money Jungle, I remember thinking that drums never sounded so good before. The articulation on every instrument was tight, clean, defined and yet hefty at the same time. Some people, including myself, connect that fast attack and detail (as with K1000s) with a thinning out of the tone. Not so here. I love these headphones for that. The difficulty I had last night with a couple tracks from Veneer, was that that attack was almost too much. The guitar string snaps and reverberations were too sharp and too close to the singer's double-tracked voice. Though amazing and super clean, I couldn't listen. John loved it. It hurt me. I do think the tones are off a bit on some instumentation, but I'd need more time...hint hint...to say anything for sure.

CD3000s

I like these headphones. Again, other than their obvious connection in name and driver only, I don't understand how people can try to make a sonic connection to the R10s. There is none. These headphones are not related at all in my mind's ears. They have, incredible soundstage/headstage (whatever floats your boat), but there is an emphasis on the treble that distorts that sense of space. You have to go looking for it, rather than having it be part of the experience as with the R10s. For me (and anyone who knows me can tell you I have an oversensitivity to highs, so take than in mind), that's the only drawback here. With every track I listened to, the highs stood out. They were never sibilant, never painful (and that's saying a lot from me), but I kept wishing they were slightly less forward. They seemed ahead of the music at times, almost as if they were driving the rest of the song. They are a bit bright for me and can be thin at times, but I'm getting real picky here.

Overall, I like these headphones. Once I switched tubes, the lack of body disappeared (they don't possess the body/fullness of any of the other headphones used, but it was adequate) and I was able to just enjoy the music. They have good detail, and deep, tight bass (The bass is not lacking here, guys! You've either got the wrong gear or wrong ears on). I felt that the midrange was lacking most in body, which became most evident in the deep vocals on In the Heart of the Moon. Last night, I felt that the R10s made Robert Plant disappear. Today, Ali Faka Touré faded away with the CD3000s, and how a voice as rich and deep as his can fade into the voice of just a guy, is a shame. Other than that...and the treble thing...I could happily live with these headphones. Once they filled out with the tube change, Immigrant Song and Black Dog had me rocking my head and moving my feet. I'm going to give them more time tomorrow. Play with some more tubes and see what that brings. If you haven't heard these headphones, don't let my picky comments become definitions for you. It's almost easier to point out what's wrong than what's right sometimes, and there's a lot right with the CD3000s.

R10s

Before I say anything, you should know that from the first time I put these on, I knew that this was the sound I wanted to hear. It's really hard to describe them in that they are the gentlest headphone in how the music comes at you, yet not polite in as in a manner of reserve. When a tympani hits, you feel it; when a full choir is singing, you can hear each note, but with complete cohesion. I disagree with the previous poster who felt that certain instruments, such as woodwinds, are off in tone. Of all the headphones I've heard, these are the most true to life I know. They have body and depth, and are perhaps the most detailed headphones I've experienced, but again, it all comes at you somehow gently. With Zeppelin, and with other rock I've tried, it's not always what you want. I still don't know what the hell happened with the Zeppelin tracks last night. It was horrible, both on John's and my rigs. After I switched out tubes today, it was a huge difference. A 20-minute live version of Moby Dick had me at the concert. Stunning vocals this time. Every instrument rocking!

R10s were made for the music on In the Heart of the Moon: intimate, lush, detailed instrumentation, rich, luxurious vocals. Everything in balance, everything as it should sound. I felt as if a private concert was going on for me alone. That's why I love these headphones. They are my sanctuary at the end of the day.

Dang, guys. I'm tired. I actually took notes this time while listening and didn't even say half of what I wanted to let you know, but I'm sick of typing. Hope some of this was interesting, or helpful. I'll try to add in more later, but maybe another time. A few of us are getting together this weekend and if we're not out having fun (which is the real plan with headphones coming in second place), we'll try to add the GS1000s in and maybe the L3000s, but no promises. Hoping to catch some live shows as well.

 

[humanflyz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif PS1s The articulation on every instrument was tight, clean, defined and yet hefty at the same time. Some people, including myself, connect that fast attack and detail (as with K1000s) with a thinning out of the tone. Not so here.

The other dynamic headphone that does lightning fast attack combined with full-bodied tone is the L3000s. But maybe you don't want to hear that for the sake of your wallet

 

[krmathis]

Excellent write-ups guys (and girl/woman).
I have to admit that I am not all into dynamic headphones, but its great to keep up with what happening on the "other side".

Keep the impressions coming!

 

[khbaur330162]

boomana: Very nice comparison! I was a little disappointed in the first write-ups of the headphones, I must say. I didn't think there was nearly enough detail in either write up to get a great feel for any of the three you guys compared, but I really think you got some time to sit down and get to know each can and I feel it shows through in your second take. Job well done.

I've never heard an R10, and I've actually never heard any one say the CD3000's were their "little sister" of sorts, other than the obvious family resemblance (aesthetics only!). I'm sure the R10 is in a completely different level of performance, and I think you'd have to be crazy to think otherwise. The obvious, unprecedented and utter delicate care Sony put into designing the R10's is a testament to what these headphones are probably capable of, and I can't wait to experience this myself. If there is, in fact, no to little resemblance in tonality/sound signature, I'm a bit disappointed, but I don't think that will change my opinion of the R10. I love the CD3000, but my dream can remains to be an R10 (or as you well know, an Ultima3000 of sorts.

).


I've got some impressions of the CD3000, myself, that I think may add to discussion. I hope they are welcome, even though my pair modded a bit.


CD3000's do have a lot of treble energy -too much for some/a lot of people, and I thought I was one of them at first. I came from an AKG K701 and the moment I plopped the CD3K's on my head and heard the treble on some poorly recorded music I went "eee-gads!" They were very comfortable, but I thought they were very very sibilant.

I upgraded my CDP from the Daewoo to the Sony DVP-NC555ES and it tamed things down a LOT and actually furthered the detail retrieval which I thought was most impossible. Bass was tightened up and much more realistic.

I upgraded my amplifier from a Corda Headfive to a LaRocco PPA (PPL diamond buffers, and a normal wallwart) and everything disappeared into a very amalgamated spectrum. The treble still had a lot of energy, but there was nice balance to everything now, and the music was displayed rather consistently. Some people say there's "holes" in the soundstage of their headphones, but I couldn't find any such thing. The scape was perfectly painted in front of me without any blob-type action; completely blended together, yet not smeared. There was still room for improvement, and this was actually the first time I could say to myself, "This sounds good, but this could be changed to make it even better." I simply didn't know enough about audio/headphones at any previous time to be able to justifiably make that sort of deduction.

I upgraded to a Dynahi and the bass went from good to freaking amazingly awesome good with rich tone, nice texture with little to no bloat. I think some of the modifications that were done to my pair have created a rather different sound signature because as you say the bass is very tight and defined, but I never got a taste of this until after I made a few, rather large, upgrades. I liked the bass from day one, but I feel this was only because it was more than the K701

. I really didn't see this fine tuned, well defined bass with actual texture until the Dynahi.

With this setup (NC555ES->cetoole Tilt EQ and crossfeed->Dynahi->Headphiled CD3000's) the treble had no hint of sibilance except with one CD in particular (Best of Queen, CD1, Don't Stop Me Now and Another One Bites the Dust; they just murdered my ears...). Detail was amazing and there were now layers to that perfectly scaped soundstage I previously mentioned. The Dynahi truly does have holographic imaging, as some people have stated, and I feel the CD3000's took that and completely ran away with it.

I heard a Spoonman album and there was china clinking in the background and I actually had to make sure no one was in my kitchen because it sounded so realistic (the sound came form behind me on the CD, and my kitchen is right behind my listening haven). That didn't even touch a later experience I had with the soundstage, however. I heard my first binaural recorded CD with this amp and I was, simply put, blown away. I heard a man walking around the microphone scrunching up pieces of paper and it gave me chills down my spine as I heard this crackling above, below and behind me; it actually made me a bit dizzy. I was utterly amazed when I heard his foot stumble and could actually point to where it could have taken place in reference to the dummy head. This was one of those times where I said, "Dad, come over hear," and forced him to partake in my Head-Fi experience. He's not really a huge audio guy, and he certainly doesn't have a very well trained ear, but his eyes did pop open when he heard the same recording and he instantly wanted to know (listen) more.

I'm now waiting to hear them for the first time balanced out of a ß22, and am currently working on a source upgrade yet again. I'll write a mini review of sorts, as well as show off a few pictures of Steve's (swt61) awesome wood work (he made me a beautiful matching Purple Heart headphone stand that I simply adore) so stay tuned to this forum in the upcoming month or so for some CD3000 love if you're interested.

Last comment I have about the CD3000's...

As boomana said, there's a lot right with the CD3000, but it does have it's faults, as do most headphones when compared to some of the cans she owns/auditioned them against. However, usually when I hear negative comments concerning the CD3k's I always put that user's gear into question. From my experience, it's not so much the CD3k's fault as it is the stuff you're plugging them into. Like a lot of headphones, these need to be a premeditated purchase; you need to plan on making a rig that suits this headphone's needs. And, boomana, you had the pleasure of hearing that pair through a truly world class rig, and still it had room for improvement, as could be predicted. Now you just need to convince jp11801 to recable his pair so you two can do a rematch.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've heard that on mine as well with badly recorded material. The HE-90s suffer the same fate, but I think good recordings benefit from the highs being very extended. The GS-1000s certainly either fit the bill or make you wonder how anyone can stand them. The PS-1 are great for recordings with harsh highs. Helps to smooth them out without suffering from the "veil (IMHO) of the Senns. They also excel with quality recordings. Very lush and liquid. Yet detailed. Mmmm Led zep w/ beer and speakers, definitely

I agree

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khbaur330162 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As boomana said, there's a lot right with the CD3000, but it does have it's faults, as do most headphones when compared to some of the cans she owns/auditioned them against. However, usually when I hear negative comments concerning the CD3k's I always put that user's gear into question. From my experience, it's not so much the CD3k's fault as it is the stuff you're plugging them into. Like a lot of headphones, these need to be a premeditated purchase; you need to plan on making a rig that suits this headphone's needs. And, boomana, you had the pleasure of hearing that pair through a truly world class rig, and still it had room for improvement, as could be predicted. Now you just need to convince jp11801 to recable his pair so you two can do a rematch.

Nice additions, khbaur. I sometimes think that when we're reading, or rather, when I'm reading impressions, I forget to take into account the gear, often because I'm not familiar with what's being used. It reminds me also to be a little careful with the impressions I put out. If I'd only heard the PS1s though the Soundquest, I'd be trashing them all over head-fi. If I hadn't been able to sit back and take a few hours and a few tube changes to get the sound I wanted, I would have fossilized idea that the CD3000s were always thin, and probably tossed that around here as well (okay, they can be a bit thin, but not nearly as much as when I first heard them).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree

I also agree about the PS1s, which is why I want them. Tomorrow, jp11801 and I, and some of the Florida crew, will be getting together either here on the East Coast or over on the West Coast (haven't yet decided). We'll have not only the R10s, CD3000s, PS1s, K1000s (K1000s only if we stay on the east for amp reasons), but also GS1000s, L3000s, and recabled K701s. I have the sneaking suspicion that we'll be partying more than listening, but I'll make sure to spend some time with the GS1000s as I'd only heard them once for five minutes at my first meet, and only remember thinking, "These are big."

 

[Roam]

A little something I've noted. Based on my experience with my HP-2 and RS-1, a lot of the sharpness and tizzyness in the highs is actually caused by the cable. With their stock cables, the treble often dissolves into hash and static; the amps are trying to send the headphones a message but it's not getting through the wires. This causes the sharpness and fatigue which some people complain of. To be blunt, Grado wires are rather substandard.

Unfortunately, recabling them isn't the easiest thing in the world, especially with the RS-1.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roam /img/forum/go_quote.gif A little something I've noted. Based on my experience with my HP-2 and RS-1, a lot of the sharpness and tizzyness in the highs is actually caused by the cable. With their stock cables, the treble often dissolves into hash and static; the amps are trying to send the headphones a message but it's not getting through the wires. This causes the sharpness and fatigue which some people complain of. To be blunt, Grado wires are rather substandard. Unfortunately, recabling them isn't the easiest thing in the world, especially with the RS-1.

LOL - They are being held back and still compete

Not bad!

 

[khbaur330162]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL - They are being held back and still compete Not bad!

LOL - In your opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nice additions, khbaur. I sometimes think that when we're reading, or rather, when I'm reading impressions, I forget to take into account the gear, often because I'm not familiar with what's being used. It reminds me also to be a little careful with the impressions I put out. If I'd only heard the PS1s though the Soundquest, I'd be trashing them all over head-fi. If I hadn't been able to sit back and take a few hours and a few tube changes to get the sound I wanted, I would have fossilized idea that the CD3000s were always thin, and probably tossed that around here as well (okay, they can be a bit thin, but not nearly as much as when I first heard them).

Thanks. And yes, I believe that the gear used when people, myself included, make these types of sweeping generalizations about a headphone can be one of, if not the, most important 'aspect' of that review/comment. I've heard the CD3000's out of a fair amount of gear and almost everything I thought to be "bad" about the CD3000 didn't really have anything to do with the CD3000 at all.

This sort of goes hand in hand with the "How high can the fi get?" thread and the scaling of gear. And this is why I keep on throwing more cash into my rig.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quint /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the detailed review. I own the R10s and owned the PS-1s. My experience with the Grados was somewhat different from yours. IMO, the PS-1’s bass overwhelmed the rest of the spectrum, and I couldn’t shake the feeling that there were a lot of peaks and valleys in the response. And they were uncomfortable as hell. That said, they did rock hard, but my Jena Labs–rewired R10s are no slouches in this regard, either. They just don’t have the ultra-slam of the PS-1s. But for hard rock, I use my Ultrasone Edition 9s, which I think are better balanced than the Grados and rock pretty hard in their own right. But, as with anything, YMMV. Again, nice review.

Amen to this, I feel exactly the same way, PS-1 overpowered bass and intrusive on the rest fo the spectrum, Im uch preffer any stock R-10, not even rewired...But for rock the Edition 9 is the way to go!!!!

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khbaur330162 As boomana said, there's a lot right with the CD3000, but it does have it's faults, as do most headphones when compared to some of the cans she owns/auditioned them against. However, usually when I hear negative comments concerning the CD3k's I always put that user's gear into question. From my experience, it's not so much the CD3k's fault as it is the stuff you're plugging them into. Like a lot of headphones, these need to be a premeditated purchase; you need to plan on making a rig that suits this headphone's needs. And, boomana, you had the pleasure of hearing that pair through a truly world class rig, and still it had room for improvement, as could be predicted. Now you just need to convince jp11801 to recable his pair so you two can do a rematch.

Great comment. I'm not a fan of the CD3000 but one thing they do is soundstage. However, there isn't any real depth. It's all side to side. This was out of jp's HD2. I want to try them tomorrow with the Woo WA5 and the Extreme. I had the CD3000 a while back, don't remember the amp(s) I had at the time. I liked them at first but over time they weren't for me.

 

[Voltron]

Great comparisons and impressions Vicki and John. Those are some nice cans you were checking out. I have all of them except for the King and I really think your ears are consistent with mine.

The CD3K are very fine closed cans, and my favorites of the closed cans that I have owned. They probably don't rank among my top five favorite cans overall, but they have a role -- bedside rig primarily for me -- and if they were smaller I might take them on the road for trips. Mikhail once told me he likes to wear them on airplanes while everybody else is wearing Bose QC, but I am not sure if he was just kidding. I am going to test drive the Ultrasone Edition 9 this week and they could become the road-worthy yet awesome closed cans that would be a nice change of pace from IEMs.

I have longed for PS-1s for some time, and recently bought a pair to my delight. I actually brought those on my current trip and even wore them in the airport and on a short plane ride. It looked super crazy, I am sure, but I was rocking out too much to notice. I love these cans, and I have liked them for rock, jazz and vocals quite a bit, but they don't do everything perfectly. With a well-matched amp, as you both have said, they are clean, clear, precise, and beefy all at the same time. I think they can even have very nice headstage with really good amps, but that is not at the top of its merits.

Glad you guys will get in one more meet before JP#s heads out here to the Left Coast. Have fun this weekend wherever you end up and make sure you all call me in the thick of it. I have been meaning to post up recordings of some of the calls made from the last Team Florida meet. I would have to put parental warnings on them, of course. Gene curses like a sailor after a couple (20) drinks.