SONY NW-ZX700
Jul 21, 2023 at 3:57 AM Post #1,891 of 2,823
Thanks for the great info. This is very helpful.

I currently am using HiFi Man HE5XX, Grado RS1e, Sony MDR-Z1R and also Sony MDR-Z7M2 but would like IEMs as currently I only have Bose QC II for in ear.

I want to get a couple of different sets of IEMs when I don't want to use headphones with my NWZX-707.
If you only have the QC II and nothing else, i would recommend to gift that to someone who has an even worse In-Ear, like in the family or so, and then go with an IER-M9

For a lot of people, this is the definition of authentic, realistic and neutral (not in an audiohpile way, in an musician way). It sounds a bit like when the MDR-Z1R and MDR-Z7M2 would have a child. You still have that typical Sony bass but its more balanced and organic than the MDR-Z1R. So tuning wise, i would say, in the middle of those two is a good reference.

And because it is an stage monitor, it has isolation. That means you can listen at very low volumes on trains, airplains and so on. It is smaller and lighter too. Its basically earplugs that play music.

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-IER-M9-in-Ear-Monitor-Headphones/dp/B07HKRQKSJ

And i highly recommend to get a pair of foam with them, a cheap pair is absolutely sufficient for the beginning

https://www.amazon.com/Earphone-FEYCH-Replacement-4-5-6-3mm-Earphones/dp/B07SN4HP5Z

and when you're 100% sure what size fits you perfect, you can grab some better foam

And i promise you that this combination is better than everything you have right now. And then you have a an ultiamte allrounder/daily driver with an solid reference/baseline you can use to experiment and to further expand
 
Jul 21, 2023 at 4:38 AM Post #1,892 of 2,823
In a perfect world, closed full BA IEMs should be reserved for stage musicians. They are light and provide the best isolation.

From a musical enjoyment perspective, nothing beats the coherency and timbre of a single dynamic driver. Unfortunately, the current state of the industry regarding single DDs are as follows:

- Broken, "I don't know what I'm doing" IEMs
- Infestation of unremarkable $20 ChiFi sets with their endless approximations of Harman Target
- Companies that try to push their DD too hard, and fail (Sennheiser, Acoustune)
- Companies that embrace the limitations of current single DD technology but usually translates in darker tunings (Beyer, Final E series, Technics?)

So for example with Sennheiser, the IE900 is a very interesting product, but still flawed, and the celebrated IE 600 and IE 200 are a step in the wrong direction, following current trends. It will make them a lot of money, but I think it's sad it had to go this way.

Since it seems the companies that really can push the technology of the single DD have given up, the only way to go is to go full BA or hybrid (I don't consider planars because they are a joke).

The goal in my opinion should be to make full BA or hybrid IEMs sound like a single DD, and most companies lack the technology to do this properly, or don't care at all. One of the few that can and care is Sony.

Most full BA are pretty bad and you need to pay a lot of money for the decent ones, and while some high end ones actually display better bass than the cheaper dynamic drivers, the best DD will always provide a better bass than the best BA.

Personally I haven't heard one hybrid IEM that is free of coherency issues. The Moondrop Variations for example mixes dynamic, with BA and EST, and it is a complete mess in this regard. Specially those EST are a complete joke and shouldn't exist at all. Some companies decided tribids aren't incoherent enough, and decided to drop bone conductor in the mix. Maybe there are some with micro planar drivers shoved in already to complete the joke.

Even the Sony XBA-N3, which is lauded as one of the most coherent hybrids, displays noticeable time domain issues, mostly because it has too much bass for its own good, and is too soft and slow. Hard for a BA to replicate.

I am curious if the Z1R succeeds here. I look forward to see what Sony does next, because sadly they seem to be the only ones right now able to push the envelope.

Some people say the hobby is in a better state than ever, but I disagree, it is stale. There haven't been any interesting innovations in years, and everyone and their dog seem to be rushing into a race to the bottom for cutting costs, and they are too busy reverse engineering popular reviewer's couplers and targets to make bank. Innovation is dead.
 
Last edited:
Jul 21, 2023 at 6:28 AM Post #1,893 of 2,823
In a perfect world, closed full BA IEMs should be reserved for stage musicians. They are light and provide the best isolation.
I disagree to some extend. Its not wrong, but its is too pragmatic.

Stage Monitors have been initially designed to protect the hearing of the artist and for no other reason. And that is something that everyone can utilize.

Sennheiser still makes Stage Monitors with DDs and they are all bad, without exception. One is worse than the other and pretty much nobody except indie bands who can't afford real monitors use them.

Even Shure still makes stage monitors with DDs, their cheapest ones for the garage bands^^

But because they are used by professional musicians who are insanely picky, they designed them to reproduce an sound that is as authentic and realistic as possible to enable the artist to perform as good as it can be on stage.

Not just the one on stage, stage monitors are an essential tool for PA engineers and they have one of the highest demands whatsoever. They decide, how the band is supposed to sound. They are basically on-the-fly mixing/mastering engineers and have an insanely high demand for an In-Ear that sounds as perfect as it gets. The IER-M9 is actually used by more PA engineers than stage performers due to not having an custom fit version.

And of course, some consumer want exactly this almost as perfect as possible sound, even though they don't have the demand of an professional artist and don't utilize it to make money with it.

Its not like that someone who has a lot of fun driving sportscars would not enjoy an Formular 1 car or an MotoGP Bike. Honda even sold an slightly modified (to fit street regulations) original MotoGP bike to consumers. You can count on one hand how many people use this professional race bike for professional races. People bought it because they wanted the best because they enjoy it, even though they don't use it to make money. And i think we don't even have to start with cameras.

Of course an average photographer doesn't need an Sony a1 or a7r IV, but who doesn't want one? In an ideal world, everybody would just buy an cheap Entry/Mid Level APS-C Camera and would be happy. But even though you can not utilize the device to make money, if you're very picky, you can see the difference and if you want to have the highest quality, you have to buy an professional camera.

The idea is: Professionals have the highest demand and even though you may not be able to utalize it to make money, you might have the same demand.

So yes, in an ideal world, if you don't make money with music, there is no reason buying anything that is as good as an stage monitor because you never get this money back. In an ideal world, nobody pays more than 1$ for trading card game cards. In an ideal world, an CBR125 or an Volkswagen Polo is enough for everyone.

From a musical enjoyment perspective, nothing beats the coherency and timbre of a single dynamic driver. Unfortunately, the current state of the industry regarding single DDs are as follows:

- Broken, "I don't know what I'm doing" IEMs
Mostly ChiFi though
- Infestation of unremarkable $20 ChiFi sets with their endless approximations of Harman Target
Because the whole reason why DDs where used in the first place is that they were Cheap and for no other reason. So its nor surpise that the cheapest technology is used in the cheapest earphone.
- Companies that try to push their DD too hard, and fail (Sennheiser, Acoustune)
I personally think that Acoustune does not fail. I tested several of them and most (not all, yes, but most) have been excellent.

Sennheiser doesn't develop nor manufacture DDs, they buy them from chinese companies and implement it, nothing more, nothing less.
- Companies that embrace the limitations of current single DD technology but usually translates in darker tunings (Beyer, Final E series, Technics?)
Final A-Series is an Single DD and everything but dark.

Sony gave up on single DDs because they have limits that nobody can break, they actually intended to end DDs once an for all. In several Interviews about the initial XBA Series you can read, without doubt, that Sony was sure, that DDs are a thing of the past.

The reason why they failed was

1. It was too expensive for the average consumer
2. It was too progressive for audiophiles (IT USED TO SOUND DIFFERENT! WHY CHANGE! CHANGE NOT GOOD! UGA UGA!!!)

That DDs still exist is for 2 reasons

1. They are insanely cheap and even though they are cheap, people pay a lot of money for them
2. Audiophiles want them

Attention, now it gets a bit philosophic and dark

If audiophiles wouldn't be as puristic, Class A amps, tube amps, dynamic drivers, all would be long dead. Nobody except audiphiles wants or needs them because most people don't enjoy the worse sound for nostalgic reason that nobody can describe really.

Yamaha invented Planar Magnetic Drivers because they knew, no matter what material you use, DDs will always be inferior. Sony wanted to kill DDs with their own developed BAs. Audiophiles are the reasons why its still there, but this will change slowly over time as more young people join the hobby.

And yes, a lot of people enjoy this inferior sound and think its the best, but, and now it gets dark but real talk, those people will get older and older and be all dead by some point.

In 100 years, nobody will listen to dynamic drivers in audiophile headphones, pretty sure, and nobody will care. The young people don't know it different and the others will be all dead at that point.

We are currently at an way point, the point of migration from one technology to an other. The same happens with Cars that go from petrol to electric, with Bands that suddenly sound more complex and "overproduced" to most 40+ people and so on. "Why is it so fast, Deep Purple sounded different, music sucks these days", well guess what, in 100 years nobody but retro fans will care how deep purple sounded.

Younger people don't care what older people enjoyed becaue they have no nostalgic feeling for it. There will be always retro fans, but they will most likely not listen to bands that have been produced with outdated technology and so profit from the worse rendition due to DDs.

Its the same with every technology. Car fans complain that electric cars arent loud and smell, but guess what, most people in the future will never be able to understand why we liked that in the first place. And yes, right now, there will be people who say there is nothing better than the vibration and the roar of an high power engine, but again, in 100years, they will be all dead and nobody cares what they thought.

DSLRs also died completely. I remember what an outrage that was, how people fightet for their mirror and now, nobody cares. There are people who get into photography who don't even know they had mirrors in the past, and dont' care that they did.

ebooks are replacing books, electric cars are replacing fuel cars, modern high speed trains are replacing steam and diesel trains and BAs will replace DDs, thats just how things happen
 
Last edited:
Jul 21, 2023 at 7:30 AM Post #1,894 of 2,823
Back to zx707...... Dignis rolled out a cool case based on 1979 walkman.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B0C6FBMRV8
Screenshot_20230721_072917_Chrome.jpg
 
Jul 21, 2023 at 7:45 AM Post #1,895 of 2,823
Jul 21, 2023 at 10:35 AM Post #1,896 of 2,823
Jul 21, 2023 at 10:56 AM Post #1,898 of 2,823
This looks pretty sweet.
Ordered one, just can't stand the official Sony case. Didn't want to spend on a second case, but the design on this one put me over the top.
 
Jul 21, 2023 at 12:33 PM Post #1,901 of 2,823
Ordered one, just can't stand the official Sony case. Didn't want to spend on a second case, but the design on this one put me over the top.
I got it too and it’s terrible. I thought I wouldn’t mind the flip case but it really gets in the way.
 
Jul 24, 2023 at 4:20 AM Post #1,903 of 2,823
Can anyone tell me if this DAP would drive the Sennheiser HD800 S pretty well? Or, would the impedance be off?
My ZX500 could drive the HD820 without issues. The unlimited one of course, the limited one... it works, but the volume is not large. Its like very quiet.

But if you have an uncapped one, it should work even on low gain, but at least on High Gain there should be no issues.
 
Jul 24, 2023 at 4:36 AM Post #1,904 of 2,823
My ZX500 could drive the HD820 without issues. The unlimited one of course, the limited one... it works, but the volume is not large. Its like very quiet.

But if you have an uncapped one, it should work even on low gain, but at least on High Gain there should be no issues.
I have the HD820 and it drives it quite well with high gain enabled.

For comparison, I use my IE600 with the volume between 25 and 50.. of course sometimes higher or lower depending on the song, mood, etc.

Then with my HD820, I usually have the volume between 60 and 90 and same, sometimes higher sometimes lower. I find myself having similar with a desktop DAC/AMP (ADI-2), they sound quite similar at relatively comparable volume settings.
 
Last edited:
Jul 24, 2023 at 11:29 AM Post #1,905 of 2,823
My ZX500 could drive the HD820 without issues. The unlimited one of course, the limited one... it works, but the volume is not large. Its like very quiet.

But if you have an uncapped one, it should work even on low gain, but at least on High Gain there should be no issues.
I'm not familiar with the HD820, but you're thinking they are very comparable to the HD800S in terms of drivability? Just ordered a Japanese version of the ZX-707 and need some open backed headphones to use with them and want to take advantage of the full potential of the 707. If anyone has had any good luck with other open-backed cans to use with this DAP, please let me know. Sorry, I scrolled through much of this thread, but not the entire thread. How's the start up time and UI speed on the 707? I'm a little worried it's going to take forever to start up, and also be laggy like my ole NW-ZX2.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top