[ac67]

Any change to Amazon Music HD?
Can some one test please?

There's a post on this, scroll a few pages before this.

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

I don’t have anything *local* at higher quality than 96kHz so I don’t know about the locally stored music played with the native walkman app.

But here is an example for Qobuz streaming:
J.S. Ondara’s “Tales of America” is 192kHz/24 on Qobuz. Played back on Sony ZX507 through Qobuz app out through USB to external DAC shows 96kHz. Played back through “USB Audio Player Pro” app (UAPP) to external DAC shows 192kHz.

On 3rd-party apps (except for UAPP): try 44.1kHz audio out through USB and you get 96kHz; 48kHz you get 96kHz; 192kHz you get 96kHz; ...; etc.

So, Sony up/down samples everything from third-party apps to 96kHz when played to external USB DACs. UAPP is using it’s own Hi-Res USB driver to overcome this limitation.

Yes it looks like your findings show that the system mixer will always up-sample to 96khz for first fold MQA or in dap to 192khz for all other PCM.

Also seems that MQA has a compatibility issue over USB, the connected devices are not recognizing the MQA stream as it has been unfolded once in app and then up-sampled to 96khz, and needs be be unfolded again if it is a 176khz or 192khz file, but the mixers up-sampling may be throwing these devices off from recognizing the MQA stream.

Sony will likely address that issue with future updates.

 

[cfc7]

Well yeah, but the tonality is important enough to me that I will at least wait for more opinions before updating, particularly since I wouldn’t be able to go back to a previous firmware

Why can't you go back to the previous version?

 

[equalspeace]

Why can't you go back to the previous version?

Before you update Sony warns you can’t revert to the previous firmware

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

https://post.m.smzdm.com/p/aeke585k/

 

[SebaE2012]

Thanks for this detailed review. I have an M11 Pro but am not entirely happy with it. I’m considering the ZX507 instead.

The M11P sounds great but has some very annoying quirks that are unacceptable in its price range (often skips first second or two of a song, buggy Fiio music player, extremely buggy UAPP app and Tidal streaming).

Thanks for sharing your experience with M11 Pro. It's useful to me, as I was considering getting one to try a different sound flavor. But I don't want the quirks. I'd rather have an experience that's as hassle-free as possible.

 

[ac67]

No problem.

If I get another MQA device, I will let you know. My work recently got a Sound Interface capable of 352.8kHz sampling - unfortunately I'm not allowed to use it for personal reasons!!

Hi again.
Just realized NW507 headphone jacks are rated up to 40KHz. Thus wont make sense to test any audio beyond that through the jacks. Thanks for the effort nevertheless!

 

[AlternativeNose1]

From a strictly mathematical perspective, there are artifacts that can be introduced from the interpolator. For example, rounding/truncation FIR filter necessarily adds correlated noise. As to whether or not it is audible... Almost certainly not.

The real issue is the purpose of these devices is singular... recreate the signal that is encoded in the files as accurately as possible. Any kind of resampling is counter to that concept, regardless of the magnitude of the effect it has on fidelity.

I see your second point, more psychoacoustics territory.

However, I'm not sure why your bringing filter arguments into upsampling debate?

Calculated Interpolation Upsampling;
The interpolator is going to be incredibly accurate - especially whilst also increasing the bit depth at the same time as the sample rate. Just up-ing the sample rate would cause issues however raising the bit depth at the same time is a pretty good solution;

Easy maths examples;
Lets take two samples from a 16 bit audio file at 48kHz Nyquist. Lets double the sample rate (so for simplicity in the example; adding another sample point in the middle)

Sample Point A = 2345
Sample Point B = 2355

Interpolated middle sample (Lets call it 'i1') would be i1 = 2350

However same example, but it results in a non-whole number
Point A = 2345
Point B = 2346
i1=2345.5

Interpolated sample would be 2345.5, which would be rounded down/up as 16bit and 24bit audio uses Integers (which can only be whole numbers - all depending on implementation, but almost 100% universally) and introduce quantisation noise (not an artefact as such), but add to what you referred to as correlated noise (which, as you say would be well below what we can hear, just as 16bit quantisation noise is in a normal recording).


However, 32bit audio is done with the float format (it can be done with integers, however it is normally always done with Float), meaning you can store a decimal number (unsure if Sony uses single or double float, but assuming single)
Therefore
Point A - 2345
Point B = 2346
i1 = 2345.5

The decimals in a float will be accurate up to 7 decimal points.


So, lets increase the sample rate from 48kHz to 192kHz (4 times greater, therefore 3 more samples between point A and B)
Point A = 2345
Point B = 2246

Interpolated sample point i1 = 2345.25
Interpolated sample point i2 = 2345.50
Interpolated sample point i3 = 2345.75

The 32-bit float DAC will be able to read these additional points (Walkman spec sheet says it can read 32bit float PCM .WAV files).

I think that Sonys reason for upscaling all the individual apps audio output, is that it's a work around solution. The apps are not able to directly control the DACs sample rate, therefore if the DAC is set to the highest sample rate it can handle, and if the apps audio output is upsampled - the listener will still receive the higher audio. This is of course conjecture as I have no idea about the specifics of how Sony has implemented this.



I'm happy to stand corrected on this, but the above is why I do not understand the aversion to upsampling in this scenario. If its your opinion you don't like the sound of upsampling, more than happy with that because at the end of the day, everybody's ears are different and there is no point listening to something if you don't like the sound of it.

 

[AlternativeNose1]

Hi again.
Just realized NW507 headphone jacks are rated up to 40KHz. Thus wont make sense to test any audio beyond that through the jacks. Thanks for the effort nevertheless!

Interesting catch and something I hadn't spotted.

I wonder then if the frequencies I was capturing above 40kHz were a result of a very smooth/long roll off filter above 40kHz then... (Aliasing perhaps? Very unlikely) Will have to think about this.

 

[AlternativeNose1]

There are good reasons for using oversampling/upsampling in digital to analog conversion. Almost all modern dacs does interpolation of some kind. Either through software, FPGA, DSP or inside the dac chip itself.

It's a very complicated topic but Mr Hans explained it very well.

Those guys videos are AWESOME - great find, thanks for sharing!

 

[Pro-Jules]

https://www.phileweb.com/sp/news/d-av/202005/28/50419.html


"By applying the update, the contents of streaming services such as Amazon Music HD and mora qualitas can be played in high resolution without being down-converted. Up to now, it was down-converted to 48kHz / 16bit, but it is now possible to output uniformly at 192kHz / 32bit. Even if the original music is 96kHz / 24bit, it will be output at 192kHz / 32bit uniformly. If DSEE HX is on, interpolation is also done."

$0NY!!! What!!!

Any comments on this? Is the report from that Japanese site true? Is it of any use to hi res fans?

(hoping for non sarcastic answers)

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

AlternativeNose1 is correct, there is no downside to up-sampling when using 32 bit float, there will be no added noise or distortion when output at 192khz, it will maintain the original bit perfect sound.

Up-sampling gained a bad reputation because integer factor up-sampling does introduce noise and distortion, but that isn't the case with 32 bit float.

Sony has implemented system wide high res the best way possible, by setting the android mixer to 192khz with 32 bit float there is no need for dodgy workarounds that introduce bugs, app instability, and compatibility issues.

 

[psikey]

AlternativeNose1 is correct, there is no downside to up-sampling when using 32 bit float, there will be no added noise or distortion when output at 192khz, it will maintain the original bit perfect sound.

Up-sampling gained a bad reputation because integer factor up-sampling does introduce noise and distortion, but that isn't the case with 32 bit float.

Sony has implemented system wide high res the best way possible, by setting the android mixer to 192khz with 32 bit float there is no need for dodgy workarounds that introduce bugs, app instability, and compatibility issues.

So will UAPP or Tidal extract MQA detail with the first unfold and that then being fed out at 32/192 ? Are you hearing the unfolded MQA like intended? The upscalling will not degrade the MQA?

 

[sandy1010]

Any change to how third party apps play native 44.1/16 files?

 

[iFenixxZ]

Does native Walkman player support DLNA on that bad boy?