[gerelmx1986]

My A17 (2014 model) now sold, with complex music it always struggled to reproduce a clean warble-free swrlie'free high end spectrum (8Khz to 22KHz or more) this test was using XBA-A3 which still have . The sonic artifacts were also heard on Oppo HA'2 AMP using LO
 
My ZX100 (2015) has since new produced a clean High range, gives me the goose bumps whenever i hear a choral with female voices singing to its highest or strings very clean sound

 

[fish1050]

I bought my A17 a few months ago to partner with my Hugo via Apt-x BT, so I have a late-sample.
And I stand by what I've said. If you spend some serious time with the ZX100, you will appreciate how exquisite the sound quality provided by this unit is. On its own and compared directly, the A17 is unrefined at every turn in comparison.
Out of interest, just how long have you spent time listening to a ZX100?

Read my previous post.
 
I listened to the same sales sample ZX100 twice in the store.  The first time with my old A17 back in 2015 and that was about a two hour listening session.  The second time was a few days ago with my replacement A17 and that was about 2.5 hours.  Both times other sales people in the store who happen to be my friends and who I worked with previously also listened.  They to took turns comparing the two, some agreed with me and some didn't.  Some shared my taste in music, some didn't, some liked how my headphones sounded some didn't.  Ultimately the people who both liked my music and my headphones generally agreed with my assessment.  Those who didn't preferred other types of music and other headphones.
 
Go ahead and stand by what you said and I will stand by what I said.  As previously mentioned you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.  Neither of our opinions is right or wrong just different.  Based on what I heard I don't believe the ZX100 is worth more than twice the A17 and even less so with my Q1 added.  Again my opinion which you don't have to agree with.  If I had the money to buy the ZX100 I would buy the Pioneer XDP-100 instead because having heard both, to my ears the Pioneer sounds better with my headphones and has better hardware components across the board. 
 
Once again just my opinion

 

[fish1050]

  My A17 (2014 model) now sold, with complex music it always struggled to reproduce a clean warble-free swrlie'free high end spectrum (8Khz to 22KHz or more) this test was using XBA-A3 which still have . The sonic artifacts were also heard on Oppo HA'2 AMP using LO
 
My ZX100 (2015) has since new produced a clean High range, gives me the goose bumps whenever i hear a choral with female voices singing to its highest or strings very clean sound

I agree with your assessment on the 2014 to some degree.  Adding my then Fiio A12 helped to overcome some of the shortcomings on that model.  I am guessing you didn't have the A17 long enough to add the 1.21 firmware update.  That firmware update certainly smoothed out some of the rough edges in the sound as well. 
 
Seeing and hearing the improvements made between 2014 and 2015 it would have been nice of Sony to offer the early adopters of the A10 series a chance to swap out the first run 2014 units for the better 2015 ones.  I will definitely wait at least 6 months on my next DAP before taking the plunge.

 

[kelly200269]

Read my previous post.

I listened to the same sales sample ZX100 twice in the store.  The first time with my old A17 back in 2015 and that was about a two hour listening session.  The second time was a few days ago with my replacement A17 and that was about 2.5 hours.  Both times other sales people in the store who happen to be my friends and who I worked with previously also listened.  They to took turns comparing the two, some agreed with me and some didn't.  Some shared my taste in music, some didn't, some liked how my headphones sounded some didn't.  Ultimately the people who both liked my music and my headphones generally agreed with my assessment.  Those who didn't preferred other types of music and other headphones.

Go ahead and stand by what you said and I will stand by what I said.  As previously mentioned you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.  Neither of our opinions is right or wrong just different.  Based on what I heard I don't believe the ZX100 is worth more than twice the A17 and even less so with my Q1 added.  Again my opinion which you don't have to agree with.  If I had the money to buy the ZX100 I would buy the Pioneer XDP-100 instead because having heard both, to my ears the Pioneer sounds better with my headphones and has better hardware components across the board. 

Once again just my opinion

Yes. It is just your opinion. And I truly hope you'll be happy with your A17. In which case, why do you persist in criticising the ZX100 for being 'poor value', as you perceive it?
I think your comments are best directed at/to the A17 thread on this forum.
And you say you've had a 'few hours' with the ZX100? In which case you will never begin to appreciate the strengths of this DAP. I would strongly advise you to get one and use one on a daily basis for a few weeks before passing further comment.
Oh, I'm sorry. You regard the ZX100 as 'poor value'. Is that another way of saying you can't afford one?

 

[gerelmx1986]

Oh, I'm sorry. You regard the ZX100 as 'poor value'. Is that another way of saying you can't afford one?

Perhpas he has envy of us zx100 owners, for me low value would be an iPod LOL thats a sacrilege of SQ, the ZX100 is pristine once you reach 250hrs burn-in...
 
My question is which HPs is he using so far i am with a pair of sony XBA-A3 perhpas hence the sinergy, i will report in december wehn i visit my Hubby in germany (test my zx100 with some ultrasone HFI 780) and i will buy the MDR-Z7 and will also let them burn in before reporting
 
Even my FiiO x3 first gen sounded worse in termns of staging and depth in regards to the A17 or zx100
 
my comparison would be 1 is best and Nth position is worst
 
1)walkman ZX100
2)walkman A17
3)walkman x series X1060
4)Fiio X3 I
5)walkman A818
6)Netwrok walkman E507
7)iPod classic late 2009 model

 

[fish1050]

For those arguing between adding an external amp and going DAP only here is a little audio 101
 
If you have ever had a chance to compare a high end home audio system to a cheaper one the biggest difference is one has separate components and one is usually a receiver.  There is a reason high end audio systems have the amplifier, pre-amplifier and tuners when they were still relevant as separate components.  When you put all 3 sections of the audio chain into one box you will get some interference between them.  When the components are on the same chassis or motherboard it is even worse.
 
When you have to fit all 3 into the same unit you have to make compromises to make everything fit like in a portable DAP.  Invariably one of the biggest compromises is in the amplifier section where you are forced to use smaller components to fit the space allowed.  You must have noticed that external amps can often be as big as the DAP itself.  Take apart a portable amp and a DAP and compare the amplifier section of the DAP to amplifier components in the portable amp.  In the portable amp the components will often be larger and there will be more parts.  IC's in the DAP amp section will be individual components in the portable amp. 
 
Of course everything is relative, stacking a $20 amp with a $300.00 DAP likely won't sound better but a quality DAC/Amp like the iBasso Bushmaster D14 ($300.00 CAN) or something similar and you could hear a real difference.  For me that was a little out of my price range but the Q1 still does a pretty nice job for the money for me.  I am not going to mention sound quality because it is to general a term but perhaps a better term would be audible differences.  You may hear audible differences rather than an across the board improvement in overall sound quality with an external amp.  You may or may not like those audible differences depending on your taste.
 
Those who argue that an external amp doesn't help the sound of the Sony DAP''s need to remember that Sony DAP's have a fairly unique design whereby there is no actual separate DAC chip.  So when you go LO from a Sony DAP it is hard to know exactly what is bypassed.  Therefore what you hear from an external amp might be different than from a more traditional DAP from say Fiio.  So going HO vs LO from a Sony DAP because of its unique design may be better or worse depending on who you talk to.
 
As someone who sold and have owned and listened to high end audio systems with separate components I guess you can say I am biased toward adding an external amp to my DAP.  Some may not be and that is fine to, whatever floats your boat

 

[gerelmx1986]

My first two walkman E507 (2004) and NWZ-A818 (2007) didn't feature the S-master circuit DAC, they sounded very bassy and digital, they weren't musical at all kind like the iPod classic sound but sans the lifeless SQ the ipod is known for.
 
The NWZ-X1060 (2009) was the first walkman with S-master and my first oen with Noise cancelling, ti sounded analogue, kind like a tube amp, very lush SQ but still had a tint for bassy sound, still sounded better than the E and A818.
 
Then got the iPod and whoa lifeless SQ even with lossless this DAP was my transition periodn from MP3 to AAC and then to full Lossless FLAC (2012)
 
Then the fiio x3(2013) it osuded better than the ipod for sure, very musical and analogue but had this narrow staging and very shallow depth making some instrument appears as if they were floating above your head. this had a Wolfson DAC
 
then got my A17(2014) to my surpirse it beat the fiio in SQ it didnt ound the typical sony walkman sound i was accustomed for (X,A and E series) it sounded pretty natural and detailed. but i noted this distortion in high range (had to be in a very quiet enviroment to notice and be distraction-free "lost in the music")
 
And my latest DAP the ZX100 (2015): forme excluding the fiio and iPod and leaving only the walkmen history i had, this represents the pinnacle in walkman's SQ research and development, is one of the best DAPs i ever heard, even better than the so "audiophile grade" fiio x3. the sound coming from the zx100 is so musical true represents what i heard on a real concert, the finest and quitest sound is heard with ease f.e reverberations and  instruments that were "masked" get revealed easily, love the amount of detail this DAP produces., the bass is nice textured, herd some Rameau ouvertured and one i got scared LOL Drum bass slam very hard wow and nice textured punch i felt..

 

[fish1050]

  Perhpas he has envy of us zx100 owners, for me low value would be an iPod LOL thats a sacrilege of SQ, the ZX100 is pristine once you reach 250hrs burn-in...
 
My question is which HPs is he using so far i am with a pair of sony XBA-A3 perhpas hence the sinergy, i will report in december wehn i visit my Hubby in germany (test my zx100 with some ultrasone HFI 780) and i will buy the MDR-Z7 and will also let them burn in before reporting
 
Even my FiiO x3 first gen sounded worse in termns of staging and depth in regards to the A17 or zx100
 
my comparison would be 1 is best and Nth position is worst
 
1)walkman ZX100
2)walkman A17
3)walkman x series X1060
4)Fiio X3 I
5)walkman A818
6)Netwrok walkman E507
7)iPod classic late 2009 model

Okey you wanna play, lets play
 

XDP-100R-K

Portable Hi-Res audio entertainment system for premium audio, apps and video

1. Google Play™ and Android™ OS provides access to all your favorite apps
2. Industry first MQA^® compatible portable player – MQA Update on April 12th via “Music” App available at the Google Play store
3. 32GB Internal Storage
4. Two MicroSD slots for up to 400GB additional storage
5. 4.7" 1280 x 720 touch screen
6. 75 mW per channel into 32 ohms
7. ESS Sabre DAC and Amp separate boards
8. Micro USB B/OTG Digital out
9. full aluminum chassis
10. Suggested retail price $699.99 US

 
Sony ZX100 - beat across the board in every category except battery life. Suggested retail price $699.99 US
 
Having a chance to listen to both the clear winner and new value champion, the Pioneer XDP-100R

 
Hmm, the ZX100 doesn't sound like such a great value now does it!!
 
 
 

 

[kelly200269]

 Perhpas he has envy of us zx100 owners, for me low value would be an iPod LOL thats a sacrilege of SQ, the ZX100 is pristine once you reach 250hrs burn-in...
 
My question is which HPs is he using so far i am with a pair of sony XBA-A3 perhpas hence the sinergy, i will report in december wehn i visit my Hubby in germany (test my zx100 with some ultrasone HFI 780) and i will buy the MDR-Z7 and will also let them burn in before reporting
 
Even my FiiO x3 first gen sounded worse in termns of staging and depth in regards to the A17 or zx100
 
my comparison would be 1 is best and Nth position is worst
 
1)walkman ZX100
2)walkman A17
3)walkman x series X1060
4)Fiio X3 I
5)walkman A818
6)Netwrok walkman E507
7)iPod classic late 2009 model

Okey you wanna play, lets play
 

XDP-100R-K

Portable Hi-Res audio entertainment system for premium audio, apps and video

1. Google Play™ and Android™ OS provides access to all your favorite apps
2. Industry first MQA^® compatible portable player – MQA Update on April 12th via “Music” App available at the Google Play store
3. 32GB Internal Storage
4. Two MicroSD slots for up to 400GB additional storage
5. 4.7" 1280 x 720 touch screen
6. 75 mW per channel into 32 ohms
7. ESS Sabre DAC and Amp separate boards
8. Micro USB B/OTG Digital out
9. full aluminum chassis
10. Suggested retail price $699.99 US

 
Sony ZX100 - beat across the board in every category except battery life. Suggested retail price $699.99 US
 
Having a chance to listen to both the clear winner and new value champion, the Pioneer XDP-100R

 
Hmm, the ZX100 doesn't sound like such a great value now does it!!
 
 
 

That's the point - Nobody really wants 'to play', they just want to discuss issues relevant to owning and using a ZX100. And since you don't qualify for either, I would suggest that you take your unqualified opinions and go to the A17 thread where you belong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Tassie Devil]

OK.  Before on selling my Fio Mont Blanc A12 head amp I'll try line out input.  I have just orderd this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Walkman-MP3-Player-WM-Port-LOD-Line-Out-Dock-To-Headphone-Amplifier-Adapter-/281118806230?hash=item4173fc90d6:g:0dgAAOSw4T5XHajV
 
Not sure why it is so expensive compared to other similar plugs for iphone etc, but seems there is little choice.

 

[fish1050]

Yes. It is just your opinion. And I truly hope you'll be happy with your A17. In which case, why do you persist in criticising the ZX100 for being 'poor value', as you perceive it?
I think your comments are best directed at/to the A17 thread on this forum.
And you say you've had a 'few hours' with the ZX100? In which case you will never begin to appreciate the strengths of this DAP. I would strongly advise you to get one and use one on a daily basis for a few weeks before passing further comment.
Oh, I'm sorry. You regard the ZX100 as 'poor value'. Is that another way of saying you can't afford one?

I most certainly can afford to buy an $800.00 DAP and I would if I felt it was worth the money.  The ZX100 is not worth $800.00 but that is not to say if it was $550.00 and available in Canada then I might change my mind.  I have never said the ZX100 is not a quality DAP only that it is overpriced for what you get.  I have also never said the A17 with or without and amp sounds better than the ZX100 but is close enough for my taste to make the ZX100 not worth the price difference.  I put the same amount of consideration into everything I buy, be it a car, a home etc.. I have a budget and stay within that budget unless something comes along that blows my doors off and I go over budget because it is worth it.  The ZX100 does not inspire me to go over budget so I don't go over budget to buy one.  I have a nice car, a nice home, a nice home stereo/home theatre system and a nice portable audio rig and I am debt free and plan to stay that way. 
 
As much as I like the Pioneer XDP-100R I won't buy one of these either because I don't listen to streaming music.  If Pioneer ever makes a DAP without the streaming audio stuff I would seriously look at buying one.
 
If all you have on these forums are product worshippers then they become irrelevant.  People should be allowed to offer an alternative opinion even if it rankles you.  You don't like my posts then don't respond to them.  Just keeping it real man!!!
 
If I had never heard a ZX100 then you are correct I should not be on this forum but I have and I am.  I also take the time to listen to other non Sony DAPs unlike Sony only buyers like you and I offer my opinions on them as well.   I spend my money on home audio equipment to listen to music in an ideal environment and a realistic amount on portable audio that I listen to in less than ideal environments like subways and airplanes.  Not a crime to have common sense and self restraint!!

 

[BartSimpson1976]

  As much as I like the Pioneer XDP-100R I won't buy one of these either because I don't listen to streaming music.  If Pioneer ever makes a DAP without the streaming audio stuff I would seriously look at buying one.
 

 
You are aware that you are not forced to use that option? With two SD-slots it also gives plenty storage for your offline music. And Android gives you the option to use 3rd part players
like Neutron or Poweramp. That's why I recently opted for the Cayin i5 over the ZX100. Spontaneously I must admit as I was contemplating over the ZX100 for long time...

 

[fish1050]

   
You are aware that you are not forced to use that option? With two SD-slots it also gives plenty storage for your offline music. And Android gives you the option to use 3rd part players
like Neutron or Poweramp. That's why I recently opted for the Cayin i5 over the ZX100. Spontaneously I must admit as I was contemplating over the ZX100 for long time...

Oh I do understand that but when you go with android and wifi on a DAP you lose battery life and I don't believe in paying for features I won't use.   For portable internet access I have a tablet and a smartphone so I don't need a DAP with it as well.  I have very specific needs in my DAP's and will focus on the ones that fit my needs the best for the price.

 

[BartSimpson1976]

ok, fair enough. I was also always hesitant towards Andoid based DAPs for the exact same reason. I only have music apps on my i5 now (Neutron, Poweramp, MediaMonkey).
For everything else I have my phone. WiFi only switched on for player updates. Am not a streaming guy also.

 

[Tassie Devil]

 
Oh I do understand that but when you go with android and wifi on a DAP you lose battery life and I don't believe in paying for features I won't use.   For portable internet access I have a tablet and a smartphone so I don't need a DAP with it as well.  I have very specific needs in my DAP's and will focus on the ones that fit my needs the best for the price.

Fully agree with you.  I briefly purchased a used A&K Jnr but the android interface drove me nuts.  For a DAP I see no point in it, particularly when the SONY A series & ZX100 have such a simple setup without it.
 
As for the A17 vs ZX100 furor above, let us all agree they are both excellent products.  If the extra fidelity of the ZX100 is worth it to anyone, then fine, but I must add I did not pay the $AUD799 asked for here as I only paid about $AUD610 for it via a friend who came back from Singapore.  So I would agree they are not worth the full RRP.  But then maybe the same can be said of the A25 at $AUD279.  I got mine for not much more than half that and have helped friends get them for 25% to 30% less than RRP.  Bottom line is that value judgements are very subjective and personal.  Hopefully we would not criticise a choice of partner to anyone so this concept needs extrapolating to all personal choices including DAPs. 
 
And I should add I'm not very fond of SONY as a company.  I guess one should not complain at their attempts to protect their intellectual property with software but it has ultimately been futile and has only ended up with consumer frustration, particularly the protocols involved with HDMI.  Agreed SONY was not the only company involved with that but they were a leading figure and were certainly responsible for the stupid area coding on DVDs & Blu Rays.
 
That said they do make excellent DAPs and their TVs are pretty good too.  End of rant.