[jinx20001]

ok so... got the earphones side by side, ive had about 45 minutes with them in a side by side test and there is no doubt the 64 audio IEM produces a better sound to my ear, its pretty close honestly but the one area where the u12t walks away is actually in the bass region, completely without question undoubtedly better, they both extend very well down low but the u12t has far more initial impact and snap. listening to cinderella by steven curtis chapman there is a kick of bass at 1min 30 that hits hard and fast on the u12t, hits aswell on the M9 but it lacks snap and impact in comparison, its quite violent on the u12t, so much so i actually oofed when i heard it, but i will say this is helped no doubt by the sensitivity of the u12t, it simply goes louder and harder with any given source... the M9 and u12t both produce beautiful vocals, i will say my first impressions of both indicate the M9 to have slightly more forward vocal while everything around the vocal takes a slight back seat whereas the U12T sounds more alive around the vocals, i cant say the u12t extends further in any direction but there is some fizz at the very top end of the treble that does not quite resolve on the M9 in the same way, its there but a little more laid back, its very hard to explain when you all know the M9 has great treble extension and resolve however there is a hint of sibilance the M9 brings out of recordings i have not heard on the U12T. Both IEM's are very detailed but the U12T comes across as more detailed when listening and its probably a false impression due to that extra spark in the treble, they are equally detailed i feel. i don't believe anybody has listened to both earphones if they come away saying the M9 bass is better in any way honestly and i dont want that to come across offensive or aggressive, i just don't believe it to be the case now having listened to them both A/B testing, i believe the U12T is objectively better in this regard, the M9 do have that slower decay in the bass which makes it sound more dynamic driver like but the U12T has more punch with slightly less mid bass intrusion and boom, its the one area i can say is a marked difference, to name a few more tracks, twista - yellow light, twista - wetter, alicia keys - work on it... all focused around the sub bass and not mastered very well and the U12T actually sound like they are moving some air, theres some reverberation there not on the sony headphones, maybe its just the fact the U12T have more drivers... the one negative to this and telling sign of more movement is my ears actually tickle a little... i actually don't like this and its one of my favourite things about the M9, they dont vibrate at all, the shell material and inner driver encasing material are clearly doing an amazing job that there is not a hint of tickling in the ear, the M9 fit a little better for me i feel, i even stole the sony tips for use on the U12T... all this does indicate the U12T are more active in the very low sub bass and you can certainly hear it.

not really much to say about the midrange honestly, both are pretty great and detailed, very full sounding and i do feel the M9 push the vocals forward a touch more but its super close, the M9 are certainly warmer in the mid bass presentation.

The sony's have 64 audio beat in box presentation, tip selection and cable... all of which are terrible on the 64 audio product, so much so ive ordered a replacement cable already that wont be so memory prone and stiff, i also got an older set of U12T without the newer leather case ill likely order my own as the original case is cheap and nasty. the headphones have clearly seen more use but are in very good condition.

i will post a full review with more pictures after a few more hours of testing side by side, likely on the head-fi facebook page because i don't want to irritate anybody here unless you specifically want to hear more about the two here. what i will say is the M9 is £999 retail right? and the U12T is £2000 retail... there is no way you can justify that price difference, there is just no way.

 

[jinx20001]

> its unlikely to be soft and not slam,

Weird, because this is not my statement, it comes directly from Knowles. There are Interviews with the developers from Knowles where they got asked "Do you think your BAs will ever be able to beat Dynamic Drivers" and the short answer is "No". And Sonion absolutely shares this opinion, and there is reason to that.

The topic is way more complicated. Sony is, by far, the company that invests most money into development of In-Ear Headphone technology, and they always have been. It is not easy to beat the company that invented the technology and is putting most money into it by buying off-the-shelves hardware and tucking them together. Its not impossible, but its a tough job to begin with. Maybe Audio 64 was able to do that, but there is nothing in the U12t that justifies that assumption so i highly doubt it.

Audio 64 is limited to what Sonion/Knowles can do, and Knowles/Sonion say they can't do it. So it is to be expected that it won't slam and will be soft.

I mean Knowles and Sonion could do it, technically, but they would make a loss with them because the earphone market is only a tiny fraction of their income and the development cost would be insane. Why develop/design a product that causes you a loss of money?

Knowles and Sonion modify existing BAs that they designed to be used in hearing aids and they modify them in an way, that they can be used in earphones. And not just that, they do it in an universal way, that every maker can use their drivers.

To this day, they are based on the hearing aid they design/develop and both companies live from hearing aids, that is what they make money with. They will never ever design/implement something that will hurt their hearing aid business, they can not live without that.

The big advantage in using the Knowles/Sonion BAs is that they are insanely cheap (the best high-end model sells for 10-25$ per unit) and universal. _Not_ the sound. That is something important here. They try to archive the best sound they can do given these limitations, but the limitations exist. Limitations that Sony does not have, but later more about that. The big disadvantage is, that they need dampers, soundpipes and lots of other hacks to make them usable.

And this is not my personal opinion, this is an statement from the people who design, build and develop the BAs at Knowles themselves. Knowles them self say that, in the way they design their BAs, they will never be able to beat any dynamic driver and that is why the recommend to use them in an hybrid setup.

Sony was investigating Knowles BAs when they developed the XBA series back in 2008 and decided against them due to exact these disadvantages which still exist to this day. That is why they decided to develop their own BA, because there was no (and still there is no) BA that was designed and developed to play music.

And they wanted an BA that sounded exactly how they wanted it to sound and implement it exactly they way they wanted it to implement. Using an device that does exactly what you want from it gives you a big advantage over an universal device that you can modify in its limits.

The best sold Headphones in Japan and most other industrial countries are the WH-1000X and WF-1000X Series, since years. Sony makes a crapload of money with them and use the income they make with these, to co-finance the very small and specific audiophile products.

Its the same with the Xperia smartphones. Sony makes mostly loss with them, but they develop them because they want to have them. The CEO says "I want that Sony builds smartphones, no matter what". That is something most companies can't due because they lack the money. So you have to admit, it is a very very hard job to beat a company like Sony which is able to do things that make no sense and cause the company a loss, just because they want to make them because they make enough money in other parts.

Sonys BAs have a lot of disadvantages, that is important to note here. First of all, they can not be used in hearing aids (something that is essential for Knowles/Sonion). Also they are not universal, you can not just put them in any earphone. You have to develop the earphone exactly for this driver.

Also Sonys BAs are designed to be used with Sonys film capacitors. Use different capacitors and they will sound different. So you're not just limited on how you implement them in general, you are also limited in what capacitors to use with them.

Again, it is an insane advantage if you're the company that develops the drivers, the housing, the capacitors and the circuit connecting everything. Sony is always reduced to developing their own BAs, but that is just not true.They are the only company that does all the jobs needed and that is why they succeed.

If a company would buy the drivers from Sony and want an earphone that can compete with the IER-M9, they would have to build an exact copy of the IER-M9, everything else will sound worse.

That is, from a driver development standpoint, an huge limitation. Why would anyone buy an driver that would limit you to mimic the earphone from that specific company? Nobody would ever buy that. Knowles/Sonion would never ever develop an BA that could only be used in one specific setup in one specific housing. That makes absolutely no sense for them and so they give up this big advantage for universal usage.

Knowles says, that their BAs can't slam like a DD, Sonion says the same. Its not me being a fanboy, its just the truth coming straight from the developers from the drivers.

Knowles/Sonion BAs are cheap alternatives to developing your own BAs, nothing more, nothing less. They have their limitations, Knowles knows that, Sonion knows that, its not a secret. If Audio 64 wants to beat Sony, they would have to develop their own BAs. They can't because they don't make enough money from their earphones so that will never happen. Case closed.

Listen to a good recorded Taiko drum with whatever all-BA earphone that is not from Sony you want, it will never sound authentic, never. Not with the U12t, not with the FA9, not with the S8, not with the Andromeda. Knowles/Sonion BAs can not reproduce an authentic Taiko Drum sound. Sony BAs can.

That doesn't mean the IER-M9 sounds better, that is still a matter of taste. A lot of people love this soft/fast BA sound, i did enjoyed the FA9 a _lot_. The HODVTEC had an insane bass response, especially with electronic music that made it sound unreal. But listen to a Taiko drum and it suc*s.

So not to confuse taste with performance. It is absolutely possible that a lot of people dislike the IER-M9, but that is unrelated to that the IER-M9 can do things no other all-BA can do.

Summary:
Advantages of Sonys BAs: Can sound exactly how Sony want them to sound
Disadvantages of Sonys BAs: Can only be used in Earphones (Not in Hearing Aids or other appliances). Need Sony Capacitors to sound exactly how they are supposed to. They to be implemented exactly how Sony says to sound how they are supposed to

Advantages of Knowles/Sonion BAs: Can be used in pretty much every appliance including Hearing Aids. Are Universal and can be fit in every earphone
Disadvantages of Knowles/Sonion BAs: Can not sound exactly how the maker wants them to sound due to limitations in their design

I don't buy Sony products because of the Brand Sony, i buy them because Sony puts the most effort into their Earphones and Headphones, its as simple as that. I don't specifically like the Brand Sony and that is why my Camera and Lenses, for example, are from SIGMA as my Stereo Speaker setup is not from Sony too. My Smartwatch is not from Sony, my Notebook is not a VAIO and so on.

''If Audio 64 wants to beat Sony, they would have to develop their own BAs. They can't because they don't make enough money from their earphones so that will never happen. Case closed.''

i don't really want to go too deep into this, i really have no intention of arguing with anybody about it, but this statement is inherently wrong when we know they have redesigned balanced armatures themselves, the TIA driver for example is a complete redesign of the armature which exposes the diaphragm, maybe its a knowles armature they have modified who knows and who really cares, i don't believe the simple fact sony makes their own drivers inherently makes them better, a balanced armature will always be a balanced armature and the manufacturers will likely always put their own spin on it, i think what sony have done is amazing and actually its quite sad they dont invest more time into making more IEM's more regularly but tuning of an IEM will always trump what the technology is which is why we can have ridiculous multi driver tribrid IEM's using the latest technology but it all makes no difference if the tuning simply isn't right.

i also think you are reaching a little when you say sony balanced armatures can do something other armatures cant... maybe they can, maybe they cant... i don't hear it.

 

[surfgeorge]

ok so... got the earphones side by side, ive had about 45 minutes with them in a side by side test and there is no doubt the 64 audio IEM produces a better sound to my ear, its pretty close honestly but the one area where the u12t walks away is actually in the bass region, completely without question undoubtedly better, they both extend very well down low but the u12t has far more initial impact and snap. listening to cinderella by steven curtis chapman there is a kick of bass at 1min 30 that hits hard and fast on the u12t, hits aswell on the M9 but it lacks snap and impact in comparison, its quite violent on the u12t, so much so i actually oofed when i heard it, but i will say this is helped no doubt by the sensitivity of the u12t, it simply goes louder and harder with any given source... the M9 and u12t both produce beautiful vocals, i will say my first impressions of both indicate the M9 to have slightly more forward vocal while everything around the vocal takes a slight back seat whereas the U12T sounds more alive around the vocals, i cant say the u12t extends further in any direction but there is some fizz at the very top end of the treble that does not quite resolve on the M9 in the same way, its there but a little more laid back, its very hard to explain when you all know the M9 has great treble extension and resolve however there is a hint of sibilance the M9 brings out of recordings i have not heard on the U12T. Both IEM's are very detailed but the U12T comes across as more detailed when listening and its probably a false impression due to that extra spark in the treble, they are equally detailed i feel. i don't believe anybody has listened to both earphones if they come away saying the M9 bass is better in any way honestly and i dont want that to come across offensive or aggressive, i just don't believe it to be the case now having listened to them both A/B testing, i believe the U12T is objectively better in this regard, the M9 do have that slower decay in the bass which makes it sound more dynamic driver like but the U12T has more punch with slightly less mid bass intrusion and boom, its the one area i can say is a marked difference, to name a few more tracks, twista - yellow light, twista - wetter, alicia keys - work on it... all focused around the sub bass and not mastered very well and the U12T actually sound like they are moving some air, theres some reverberation there not on the sony headphones, maybe its just the fact the U12T have more drivers... the one negative to this and telling sign of more movement is my ears actually tickle a little... i actually don't like this and its one of my favourite things about the M9, they dont vibrate at all, the shell material and inner driver encasing material are clearly doing an amazing job that there is not a hint of tickling in the ear, the M9 fit a little better for me i feel, i even stole the sony tips for use on the U12T... all this does indicate the U12T are more active in the very low sub bass and you can certainly hear it.

not really much to say about the midrange honestly, both are pretty great and detailed, very full sounding and i do feel the M9 push the vocals forward a touch more but its super close, the M9 are certainly warmer in the mid bass presentation.

The sony's have 64 audio beat in box presentation, tip selection and cable... all of which are terrible on the 64 audio product, so much so ive ordered a replacement cable already that wont be so memory prone and stiff, i also got an older set of U12T without the newer leather case ill likely order my own as the original case is cheap and nasty. the headphones have clearly seen more use but are in very good condition.

i will post a full review with more pictures after a few more hours of testing side by side, likely on the head-fi facebook page because i don't want to irritate anybody here unless you specifically want to hear more about the two here. what i will say is the M9 is £999 retail right? and the U12T is £2000 retail... there is no way you can justify that price difference, there is just no way.

Thanks for those first impressions! I think you are doing a great job at describing the differences!
Could you share with us what source you are using for comparison and which tips you use on each IEM?

I don't know about you, but for me it takes a lot of time to fully understand and rate an IEM or headphone, ususally weeks or even months of listening. It would be great if you could keep us updated about changes or even confirmation of your take in a couple of weeks. I think it's not just appropriate but very valuable to have these comparisons in the M9 thread since it helps to better understand the M9. There's nothing offensive about an honest opinion, especially one like yours, that clearly shows your effort to be objective.

Thanks a lot!

 

[jinx20001]

Thanks for those first impressions! I think you are doing a great job at describing the differences!
Could you share with us what source you are using for comparison and which tips you use on each IEM?

I don't know about you, but for me it takes a lot of time to fully understand and rate an IEM or headphone, ususally weeks or even months of listening. It would be great if you could keep us updated about changes or even confirmation of your take in a couple of weeks. I think it's not just appropriate but very valuable to have these comparisons in the M9 thread since it helps to better understand the M9. There's nothing offensive about an honest opinion, especially one like yours, that clearly shows your effort to be objective.

Thanks a lot!

Hey thanks so much for the kind words, all i can be is objective since there really isn't nothing in it for me, as i said previously ill just keep the earphones that present the sound how i like it best... i lose nothing by saying the M9 is my preference if that is the case but i will say right off the bat im almost certainly a basshead, its the first thing that grabs me and shapes my impression of the IEM, if i feel like its lacking depth or impact it will surely be a somewhat negative response from me, in the case of these IEM's in particular its safe to say they both perform excellently in the lower frequencies, but one does have a clear advantage, i will say i just tried the m20 modules in the U12t and the bass is certainly even more punchy but even for me im on the edge of saying its JUST a bit too much and the m15 modules are my preference for now, although the bass head in me wants to roll with the m20 for a while. I don't typically warm to in ears with a gimmick, adjustable sound through nozzles or modules and things just don't float my boat at all id rather the IEM be tuned one way, the best way it can be.

Also i totally understand what you mean about having more time to do a review, the reason i give rather quick impressions is because the sound differences are more noticeable in the first 5 minutes to my ears, i can quickly identify which is brighter, which is warmer and generally what the sound signature is going to be, over the space of a few hours it will become more apparent which IEM's resolve more detail as i cycle my usual songs in the library and decipher if i can pick out extra details or what instruments are pushed into the limelight more or less. i think weeks of testing before a review would only solidify what i will have already found out if that makes sense.

as for what source im using, i mainly use IEM's on my pc to game and listen to music, i have an external soundblaster GC7 and a ifi zen dac v2. nothing fancy for sure but respectable quality, as i say i have been away from high end audio gear for the best part of 12 years now and literally jumping head first back in so over time no doubt better equipment will find there way

 

[jinx20001]

here was my review i posted earlier on facebook head fi.

Hey, following on from my post earlier i decided to throw together a review comparing the sony IER-M9 in ears and the 64 audio U12T, This is in no way apples to apples, one costs significantly more so i will try to explore what that cost gets you and if it will be worth it.
My experience and background: this review will be coming from somebody (myself) who has not explored the world of in ear technology for over 12 years, the last in ears i owned were sony MDR EX1000 back in around 2011. I had quite a lot of experience with in ears before that, starting out with UE super fi 5 and quickly working my way around the market, triple fi 10's, the whole shure range except the 215 and 846 (really really wanted the 846 and it never happened), westone w30/w40, sennheiser ie80 and ie800... and many more, the list is quite extensive but ive not touched a set of in ear headphones in a long time and it is quite shocking to see the sheer variety on the market today, never even heard the term chifi until a week ago.

So that's me and what i know about anything today to do with more modern in ears which isn't too much, im unlikely to use sophisticated terminology, i wont be touching much on timbre and the such because honestly the word does not mean much to me and i feel like a lot of reviewers have their own meaning behind the word and how they use it, i will simply say how it sounds and why i like or dislike it. i will say both IEM's were purchased used and the U12T are seemingly far more used than the M9, the M9 i purchased for £680 and the U12T i purchased for £1100.

blah blah blah right, so ill jump right into it. My sources for the review are somewhat ''meh'', using a soundblaster GC7 pc external soundcard and a ifi zen dac v2.
The sony IEM's are far more luxurious, the packaging is excellent, the presentation is excellent, the wire is excellent and the build quality is excellent.... in comparison the U12t presentation is trash, the box is nothing pretty, the supplied case is cheap and horrible (i got the first variant unfortunately), the wire... jeez the wire, its not nice and you might see in the pictures i quickly replaced it so account for that if you are interested in buying. For me the M9 feels like it fits a little better, sits in my ear more seamlessly but does warm up the ear canal more, maybe theres something to the apex system of the u12t but it does feel less intrusive, im not sure i like that, its a little less secure feeling. i also give the edge to the m9 MMCX connectors, never been a fan of the 2 pin design which is inherently less secure feeling, but hey the wire plugs in and don't fall out, it works so moving on.

The biggest advantage initially for the U12t for me is the bass... the M9 does not lack bass, it has great extension and without hearing the U12t i would confidently say it is one of the nicest BA bass responses i have ever heard, its like a refined shure SE535, warm, smooth and deep, but far clearer and less one note, no veil. The problem for the M9 is i did listen to the U12t and it hits harder, has far more punch and impact, its an almost violent strike of power, enough that my reaction is the M9 lacks sub bass impact in comparison and leans ever so slightly closer to the 150hz-200hz range which is where the warmth comes from. This was using the apex m15 module, moving on to the m20 module the bass hits even harder but its on the edge of being too much, it does not get muddy or bloated it just generally feels like too much punch leading me to feel like the m15 is the way to go. some songs with stand out moments, cinderella by steven curtis chapman, its silky smooth with both the M9 and U12t but when the kick of bass hits at 1.30 the U12t strikes your eardrum with power, precision and impact while the M9 is more subtle and subdued focusing on the vocal presentation. heavy sub bass material like twista (i know old school right) just reverberates so good with the U12t, you can almost picture the subwoofer excursion, in fact this might be a slight negative on the U12t's part and the only flaw in the presentation, with nothing but bass you can hear the mechanical movement in the driver, i just cant hear this with the M9, is that the BA armature bass i read so much about? is it impressive i cant hear that with the M9 or is it just because its not hitting so hard, you tell me.
the mid-range is a far close fought battle, vocals are beautiful on both IEM's but i do feel like vocals are where the M9 shines, both have a pretty forward presentation but the M9 is so incredibly smooth and cohesive, it certainly seems to have that advantage for me, the feather in its cap for sure. The U12t in comparison is still forward and presents so much clarity however because its shining so bright in the bass and treble department its almost negating the vocal performance, it cant stand out like it does on the M9 because everything else is so far forward in the presentation, its not right to call the U12t V shaped because its really not to my ears, vocals are just as forward however they are not the star of the show like on the M9... i did read some reviews on the M9 to gauge what the general consensus was on the earphones, are people hearing what im hearing and many suggest the M9's strong point is its bass response and how almost dynamic driver like they are, i can somewhat see that view and would somewhat agree... but i think actually the M9's strong point is its cohesion and vocal quality, i feel like sony know how to tune their hardware to give the ideal sound but it lacks a little pizazz next to the U12t... it can become a little strained at higher volume and the cohesion does break up a little bit whereas the U12t just gets better with more and more power, i don't know if this is as a result of more drivers, i really don't but it seems like the U12t can handle a higher load without cracking under pressure, both perform admirably with realistic load and volume however, the U12t can get louder with any given source.

the treble is something of another close battle, the U12t seems to sit back a little in just the right place in the treble department and then peak a little in the very high registers, its sparkly and fizzes without being sibilant or harsh, i have found sibilance creep into the sound with the M9 in certain songs but i find its the track that is sibilant rather than the IEM, the earphones will either resolve it or not and in the case of the M9 it picks out poor recordings better to my ears but this results in some tracks where ill whince at high volumes but using the U12t its bearable. Both IEM's pick out detail wonderfully and the M9 have an amazing ability to blend the sound together silky smooth, its a beautiful cohesive sound as i mentioned but ultimately does not stand out as holy wowsers.

I guess that kind of sums up my initial impressions after roughly 5 hours of back to back listening, the M9 is excellent but seems to do everything too right, too clean and clinical it lacks a little excitement....The U12t on the other hand has that holy wowsers impact, the bass hits with authority, a violent impact on the ears you just love to hear, maybe some of this is down to the extra sensitivity and power where the M9 (on my sources) just cant get to, pushing the M9 started to break the cohesion for me, certainly not distortion just loses its character and vocal control where the U12t seems to get a real kick out of destroying your ear holes.

Is it worth it? well for what i paid, yes, it is just about worth the extra cost, but at retail price no way, its just not worth it, its too much money, comes in a really poor package and the M9 is so beautifully presented its shockingly different... i have seen audio 64 have made improvements but i guess part of my ''deal'' is i ended up with the old stuff and im ok with it. I wouldn't in any way suggest going from the M9 to the U12t is a massive upgrade and i think we are all smart enough to know increases in quality are always going to be incremental at these prices, the M9 really is awesome... the U12t is just more awesome.

just my view based on 5 hours ish... now ill get to listening for a few weeks, hope it was helpful or informative.

 

[kissmojo]

here was my review i posted earlier on facebook head fi.

Hey, following on from my post earlier i decided to throw together a review comparing the sony IER-M9 in ears and the 64 audio U12T, This is in no way apples to apples, one costs significantly more so i will try to explore what that cost gets you and if it will be worth it.
My experience and background: this review will be coming from somebody (myself) who has not explored the world of in ear technology for over 12 years, the last in ears i owned were sony MDR EX1000 back in around 2011. I had quite a lot of experience with in ears before that, starting out with UE super fi 5 and quickly working my way around the market, triple fi 10's, the whole shure range except the 215 and 846 (really really wanted the 846 and it never happened), westone w30/w40, sennheiser ie80 and ie800... and many more, the list is quite extensive but ive not touched a set of in ear headphones in a long time and it is quite shocking to see the sheer variety on the market today, never even heard the term chifi until a week ago.

So that's me and what i know about anything today to do with more modern in ears which isn't too much, im unlikely to use sophisticated terminology, i wont be touching much on timbre and the such because honestly the word does not mean much to me and i feel like a lot of reviewers have their own meaning behind the word and how they use it, i will simply say how it sounds and why i like or dislike it. i will say both IEM's were purchased used and the U12T are seemingly far more used than the M9, the M9 i purchased for £680 and the U12T i purchased for £1100.

blah blah blah right, so ill jump right into it. My sources for the review are somewhat ''meh'', using a soundblaster GC7 pc external soundcard and a ifi zen dac v2.
The sony IEM's are far more luxurious, the packaging is excellent, the presentation is excellent, the wire is excellent and the build quality is excellent.... in comparison the U12t presentation is trash, the box is nothing pretty, the supplied case is cheap and horrible (i got the first variant unfortunately), the wire... jeez the wire, its not nice and you might see in the pictures i quickly replaced it so account for that if you are interested in buying. For me the M9 feels like it fits a little better, sits in my ear more seamlessly but does warm up the ear canal more, maybe theres something to the apex system of the u12t but it does feel less intrusive, im not sure i like that, its a little less secure feeling. i also give the edge to the m9 MMCX connectors, never been a fan of the 2 pin design which is inherently less secure feeling, but hey the wire plugs in and don't fall out, it works so moving on.

The biggest advantage initially for the U12t for me is the bass... the M9 does not lack bass, it has great extension and without hearing the U12t i would confidently say it is one of the nicest BA bass responses i have ever heard, its like a refined shure SE535, warm, smooth and deep, but far clearer and less one note, no veil. The problem for the M9 is i did listen to the U12t and it hits harder, has far more punch and impact, its an almost violent strike of power, enough that my reaction is the M9 lacks sub bass impact in comparison and leans ever so slightly closer to the 150hz-200hz range which is where the warmth comes from. This was using the apex m15 module, moving on to the m20 module the bass hits even harder but its on the edge of being too much, it does not get muddy or bloated it just generally feels like too much punch leading me to feel like the m15 is the way to go. some songs with stand out moments, cinderella by steven curtis chapman, its silky smooth with both the M9 and U12t but when the kick of bass hits at 1.30 the U12t strikes your eardrum with power, precision and impact while the M9 is more subtle and subdued focusing on the vocal presentation. heavy sub bass material like twista (i know old school right) just reverberates so good with the U12t, you can almost picture the subwoofer excursion, in fact this might be a slight negative on the U12t's part and the only flaw in the presentation, with nothing but bass you can hear the mechanical movement in the driver, i just cant hear this with the M9, is that the BA armature bass i read so much about? is it impressive i cant hear that with the M9 or is it just because its not hitting so hard, you tell me.
the mid-range is a far close fought battle, vocals are beautiful on both IEM's but i do feel like vocals are where the M9 shines, both have a pretty forward presentation but the M9 is so incredibly smooth and cohesive, it certainly seems to have that advantage for me, the feather in its cap for sure. The U12t in comparison is still forward and presents so much clarity however because its shining so bright in the bass and treble department its almost negating the vocal performance, it cant stand out like it does on the M9 because everything else is so far forward in the presentation, its not right to call the U12t V shaped because its really not to my ears, vocals are just as forward however they are not the star of the show like on the M9... i did read some reviews on the M9 to gauge what the general consensus was on the earphones, are people hearing what im hearing and many suggest the M9's strong point is its bass response and how almost dynamic driver like they are, i can somewhat see that view and would somewhat agree... but i think actually the M9's strong point is its cohesion and vocal quality, i feel like sony know how to tune their hardware to give the ideal sound but it lacks a little pizazz next to the U12t... it can become a little strained at higher volume and the cohesion does break up a little bit whereas the U12t just gets better with more and more power, i don't know if this is as a result of more drivers, i really don't but it seems like the U12t can handle a higher load without cracking under pressure, both perform admirably with realistic load and volume however, the U12t can get louder with any given source.

the treble is something of another close battle, the U12t seems to sit back a little in just the right place in the treble department and then peak a little in the very high registers, its sparkly and fizzes without being sibilant or harsh, i have found sibilance creep into the sound with the M9 in certain songs but i find its the track that is sibilant rather than the IEM, the earphones will either resolve it or not and in the case of the M9 it picks out poor recordings better to my ears but this results in some tracks where ill whince at high volumes but using the U12t its bearable. Both IEM's pick out detail wonderfully and the M9 have an amazing ability to blend the sound together silky smooth, its a beautiful cohesive sound as i mentioned but ultimately does not stand out as holy wowsers.

I guess that kind of sums up my initial impressions after roughly 5 hours of back to back listening, the M9 is excellent but seems to do everything too right, too clean and clinical it lacks a little excitement....The U12t on the other hand has that holy wowsers impact, the bass hits with authority, a violent impact on the ears you just love to hear, maybe some of this is down to the extra sensitivity and power where the M9 (on my sources) just cant get to, pushing the M9 started to break the cohesion for me, certainly not distortion just loses its character and vocal control where the U12t seems to get a real kick out of destroying your ear holes.

Is it worth it? well for what i paid, yes, it is just about worth the extra cost, but at retail price no way, its just not worth it, its too much money, comes in a really poor package and the M9 is so beautifully presented its shockingly different... i have seen audio 64 have made improvements but i guess part of my ''deal'' is i ended up with the old stuff and im ok with it. I wouldn't in any way suggest going from the M9 to the U12t is a massive upgrade and i think we are all smart enough to know increases in quality are always going to be incremental at these prices, the M9 really is awesome... the U12t is just more awesome.

just my view based on 5 hours ish... now ill get to listening for a few weeks, hope it was helpful or informative.

Great review.
For comparison I have SE535 and SE846 and also Weston W60, IMO, none of these 3 headphones has good bass, it is typical BA “problem”, M9 is the only BA headphone which has the bass from a DD IMO, although the sub bass region is still lacking.
In the SE846 thread, many say that SE846 does not lack bass and some say the SE846 has great bass, I owned SE846 for long time and no matter how good fit I have, the bass is never the bass you get with DD headphones, for example IE800S, Xelento.
I bought W60 just in curious that if more BAs would enhance bass performance, and IMO that is not the case.
Then I understand why AKG opted for a DD to handle the bass, the N5005, this is a great great headphone, but you can still hear the line between BA and DD.
I do not U12T, I hope one day I will have the chance to hear it, your gave a high rating.

 

[jinx20001]

Great review.
For comparison I have SE535 and SE846 and also Weston W60, IMO, none of these 3 headphones has good bass, it is typical BA “problem”, M9 is the only BA headphone which has the bass from a DD IMO, although the sub bass region is still lacking.
In the SE846 thread, many say that SE846 does not lack bass and some say the SE846 has great bass, I owned SE846 for long time and no matter how good fit I have, the bass is never the bass you get with DD headphones, for example IE800S, Xelento.
I bought W60 just in curious that if more BAs would enhance bass performance, and IMO that is not the case.
Then I understand why AKG opted for a DD to handle the bass, the N5005, this is a great great headphone, but you can still hear the line between BA and DD.
I do not U12T, I hope one day I will have the chance to hear it, your gave a high rating.

thankyou for the kind words.

i never owned the shure se846 but i think many people were mistaken or mislead by the marketing with that headphone, shure would lead you to believe the earphone will have excellent sub bass and call it subwoofer like however the idea behind the low pass filter was exactly what it sounds like, it was a filter to roll off the bass frequencies as the frequency got higher, so the bass drivers would produce for example 20-500hz but the low pass filter would filter 300hz off of that effectively meaning you would only hear 20-200hz from the driver, making for a ''true subwoofer'' like sound... the problem with this is the low pass filter did nothing for how the bass driver would perform so if it didnt slam hard or have good impact and texture then the low pass filter was not going to help that. that's how i understand it but i have not heard it for myself unfortunately and it would be the reason why it does not live up to some expectations today i guess. i did own a shure se535 and the problem with that was the sub bass never had any focus, the bass was thick and overly warm and the mid bass around 500hz would be just as centre stage as the sub bass, since the 535 released it has become more common for the sub bass to have more impact and roll off around the 200hz point to keep the mid bass clean and not bloated. i really enjoyed the 535 when i had it though (when i owned it - it was the se530)

as for the westone series, i only owned the w30 and w40 and i enjoyed them at the time, i honestly couldn't give an honest opinion on how they sound today because its been too long and i just cant remember very well. I know they had plenty of bass, perhaps they just lacked detail. i think that was the main issue back in the late 2000's with IEM's, they were either very warm, very neutral or very bright and today we have IEM's that offer the whole package like the sony IER-M9 which i would consider strong across the whole frequency range. The U12t basically takes the M9 signature and layers some icing on top, where the bass of the M9 is strong and clean the U12t is stronger and just as clean, both IEM's are detailed and smooth in the midrange but i think the M9's vocal performance sticks out a little more only because the U12t is more forward in the bass but not bloated at all, its just hitting harder and has more snap. the highs are again great on both but the U12t is easier to listen to, just as an example there are artists that just naturally sound shrill at high volume, celine dion as an example out of a hat can have a piercing voice, very powerful and if the earphones cant control the treble she can be fatiguing to listen to, the U12t perform so sensationally here, you can listen for hours its so smooth and controlled but if i push the M9 volume up the M9 loses a little bit of treble control in the upper mid/low high vocal range and it becomes a little piercing.... its nitpicking though and i do have to nitpick to pick out differences.

i have no doubt a good DD will bring its own benefits, we all know they have a natural strength in the bass but i really really like a balanced armature bass when it can hit hard because a BA naturally has more speed and precision, its tighter but lacks the thump you typically get with DD, i think the M9 and U12t are both very strong here, almost sounding DD like but with the benefit of extra snap, precision and tightness, The U12t certainly edges it though, in fact its undoubted for me.

 

[dleblanc343]

Hi all,

I finally did it, re-acquired an IER-M9.

I must mention that my impressions of this iem are in conjunction with the ALO Super Litz cable which meshes greatly with this iem. The scaling of the IER-M9 with cable changes is higher that U12T, although still, the U12T ceiling in sound quality is slightly higher.

I actually find the Stock cable of M9 to be completely rubbish sounding. Z1R cable, Super Litz, Smokey Litz and to a lesser extend Fiio 4.4D Silver cable are all welcome improvements to M9.

This is a controversial topic for certain, but this 100% is a monitor that audibly demonstrates character changes upon cable swaps - I hate to get in with hyberbole, but significant changes in the realm of a cable change is still very minute, but the main changes are timbral and transient-response related.

I hate the ergonomics of the Super Litz cable, but it adds a lot of dynamic swing and energy that helps the M9 sound a little less "dead" and makes it worth the slight discomfort.

 

[kissmojo]

thankyou for the kind words.

i never owned the shure se846 but i think many people were mistaken or mislead by the marketing with that headphone, shure would lead you to believe the earphone will have excellent sub bass and call it subwoofer like however the idea behind the low pass filter was exactly what it sounds like, it was a filter to roll off the bass frequencies as the frequency got higher, so the bass drivers would produce for example 20-500hz but the low pass filter would filter 300hz off of that effectively meaning you would only hear 20-200hz from the driver, making for a ''true subwoofer'' like sound... the problem with this is the low pass filter did nothing for how the bass driver would perform so if it didnt slam hard or have good impact and texture then the low pass filter was not going to help that. that's how i understand it but i have not heard it for myself unfortunately and it would be the reason why it does not live up to some expectations today i guess. i did own a shure se535 and the problem with that was the sub bass never had any focus, the bass was thick and overly warm and the mid bass around 500hz would be just as centre stage as the sub bass, since the 535 released it has become more common for the sub bass to have more impact and roll off around the 200hz point to keep the mid bass clean and not bloated. i really enjoyed the 535 when i had it though (when i owned it - it was the se530)

as for the westone series, i only owned the w30 and w40 and i enjoyed them at the time, i honestly couldn't give an honest opinion on how they sound today because its been too long and i just cant remember very well. I know they had plenty of bass, perhaps they just lacked detail. i think that was the main issue back in the late 2000's with IEM's, they were either very warm, very neutral or very bright and today we have IEM's that offer the whole package like the sony IER-M9 which i would consider strong across the whole frequency range. The U12t basically takes the M9 signature and layers some icing on top, where the bass of the M9 is strong and clean the U12t is stronger and just as clean, both IEM's are detailed and smooth in the midrange but i think the M9's vocal performance sticks out a little more only because the U12t is more forward in the bass but not bloated at all, its just hitting harder and has more snap. the highs are again great on both but the U12t is easier to listen to, just as an example there are artists that just naturally sound shrill at high volume, celine dion as an example out of a hat can have a piercing voice, very powerful and if the earphones cant control the treble she can be fatiguing to listen to, the U12t perform so sensationally here, you can listen for hours its so smooth and controlled but if i push the M9 volume up the M9 loses a little bit of treble control in the upper mid/low high vocal range and it becomes a little piercing.... its nitpicking though and i do have to nitpick to pick out differences.

i have no doubt a good DD will bring its own benefits, we all know they have a natural strength in the bass but i really really like a balanced armature bass when it can hit hard because a BA naturally has more speed and precision, its tighter but lacks the thump you typically get with DD, i think the M9 and U12t are both very strong here, almost sounding DD like but with the benefit of extra snap, precision and tightness, The U12t certainly edges it though, in fact its undoubted for me.

This is a great exchange of impressions.
Thanks for the detailed review!

 

[questin]

I have nothing to really add to the conversation. But I've owned the M9's for about 2 months now and I can't put them down. Hands down my favorite so far.

Tips: Xcessor FX4.0 (S)
Cable: Fiio LC-RE
Source: BTR5, Hiby R5, or Topping DX7Pro

Previous Headphones:

Sennheiser HD650

Beyerdynmic DT770

V-Moda M-100

Sony WH-1000XM3

Fostex TH-X00 Ebony

Previous IEMs:

Shure SE846

Fiio FH7

Linsoul Tin P1

Shure SE215

TRN V90

Linsoul KZ ZSX

Jade Audio EW1

Galaxy Buds Pro

Galaxy Buds 2

 

[jinx20001]

I have nothing to really add to the conversation. But I've owned the M9's for about 2 months now and I can't put them down. Hands down my favorite so far.

Tips: Xcessor FX4.0 (S)
Cable: Fiio LC-RE
Source: BTR5, Hiby R5, or Topping DX7Pro

Previous Headphones:

Sennheiser HD650

Beyerdynmic DT770

V-Moda M-100

Sony WH-1000XM3

Fostex TH-X00 Ebony

Previous IEMs:

Shure SE846

Fiio FH7

Linsoul Tin P1

Shure SE215

TRN V90

Linsoul KZ ZSX

Jade Audio EW1

Galaxy Buds Pro

Galaxy Buds 2

hey im sure we would all agree any input and opinion is valued, that's the whole idea. the M9 is awesome.

how would you rate it against the shure se846? its an IEM ive never owned but always had a soft spot for and always wanted to try.

 

[questin]

hey im sure we would all agree any input and opinion is valued, that's the whole idea. the M9 is awesome.

how would you rate it against the shure se846? its an IEM ive never owned but always had a soft spot for and always wanted to try.

Small rant activated:
SE846 I've had them for a long time. I don't know why, but they just feel dated (2013 release date). I might be wrong, but it seems like they came out way before the chi-fi IEM invasion where so many different companies could innovate and compete with each other. When I got the Fiio FH7's, they seemed like such a step up in quality from the 846's and at half the price. FH7's are more V-shaped, but it still seemed like everything was improved. Bass, soundstage, Filter technology etc...

You might call me a SE846 hater at this point, But it just feels like the whole industry has exploded in the last ~5 years and so many IEMs have passed them up by now.

I'm preaching to the choir here, but These M9s are something else entirely from those 2 iems. These excel in clarity, detail, instrument separation, while still being fun, Like I haven't heard before.

As an aside:
Fh7's I could listen to for an hour or two before the sound signature would start to be uncomfortable.
M9's I can listen to them at work for 8 hours straight without an issue.

I could go on about this topic. I enjoy the hobby and probably think about this way too much

 

[jinx20001]

Small rant activated:
SE846 I've had them for a long time. I don't know why, but they just feel dated (2013 release date). I might be wrong, but it seems like they came out before way before the chi-fi IEM invasion where so many different companies could innovate and compete with each other. When I got the Fiio FH7's, they seemed like such a step up in quality from the 846's and at half the price. FH7's are more V-shaped, but it still seemed like everything was improved. Bass, soundstage, Filter technology etc...

You might call me a SE846 hater at this point, But it just feels like the whole industry has exploded in the last ~5 years and so many IEMs have passed them up by now.

I'm preaching to the choir here, but These M9s are something else entirely from those 2 iems. These excel in clarity, detail, instrument separation, while still being fun, Like I haven't heard before.

As an aside:
Fh7's I could listen to for an hour or two before the sound signature would start to be uncomfortable.
M9's I can listen to them at work for 8 hours straight without an issue.

I could go on about this topic. I enjoy the hobby and probably think about this way too much

aha great reply, thats interesting to know and heck it makes a lot of sense aswell because you are so right when you say the se846 are from a time before the IEM explosion, it was shure, westone and ultimate ears who stood on that hill just waiting to be knocked off it and then just as you say the invasion came, cheap as anything IEM's housing multiple armatures are just everywhere now and thats probably why with respect to shure they tried something different with the KSE electrostatic things, they probably came to the realization trying to compete with the chifi market with a handful of balanced armatures was a no go... im glad the likes of sony and 64 audio still seperate themselves from the onslaught of chifi IEM's though with some kind of innovation, be it sony's completely different armature design or 64 audio with the tia driver etc... the market needed that competition to spur up the big companies, just a shame shure seem to have dropped the idea for now.

fair to say ive missed so much over the last 10 years, i could not believe how much choice there was when i started looking again a month or so ago.

 

[brazy001]

i have tested the spring tips on the m9 and unfortunately I am not a fan which may be largely personal and resulting from fit with my anatomy. They are very soft and comfortable however i needed to play a bit with one side to feel really locked in after some twisting into position. 9 times out of 10 they just felt like they sucked out the sub bass which was very noticeable on tracks calling for bass presence. the 1 in 10 difference was that on one of my initial tests with the tips, the first thing i noticed was a lack of 'sparkle' in the upper register when pitted against my favorite repurposed UE900 tips. since then however i have tried adjusting the spring tips every which way and the same response with sucked out bass is coming through. I could put this down to seal however without music playing they feel like they are locked in and i do my obligatory 'tap, tap' on the IEM housing, a little wiggle to feel the seal in the canal and some light murmuring for the occlusion.

I do note that the tip only holds onto the IEM nozzle at the base and otherwise sits off by a few mm's leaving an air gap (as shown in the pic below). I thought i would still post my impressions for what they are worth.

 

[surfgeorge]

i have tested the spring tips on the m9 and unfortunately I am not a fan which may be largely personal and resulting from fit with my anatomy. They are very soft and comfortable however i needed to play a bit with one side to feel really locked in after some twisting into position. 9 times out of 10 they just felt like they sucked out the sub bass which was very noticeable on tracks calling for bass presence. the 1 in 10 difference was that on one of my initial tests with the tips, the first thing i noticed was a lack of 'sparkle' in the upper register when pitted against my favorite repurposed UE900 tips. since then however i have tried adjusting the spring tips every which way and the same response with sucked out bass is coming through. I could put this down to seal however without music playing they feel like they are locked in and i do my obligatory 'tap, tap' on the IEM housing, a little wiggle to feel the seal in the canal and some light murmuring for the occlusion.

I do note that the tip only holds onto the IEM nozzle at the base and otherwise sits off by a few mm's leaving an air gap (as shown in the pic below). I thought i would still post my impressions for what they are worth.

Sorry to hear they don't seem to work for you!
It's actually interesting because I am getting good sub bass with the Spring tips. Listened to Hans Zimmer's 2049 last night and really liked it.
But I have to add that the sub bass quality really depends on the source - I use the CHORD Mojo as portable device and the Hugo 2 for home listening. The difference in sub bass definition and extension is quite big, this is one of the main differences between the Mojo and Hugo 2.
Regarding the treble sparkle, to me the M9 can have too much with some tips, so the smoother Spring tips work well for my tastes.

But please check the size of the tips. The Spring tips seem to be smaller for the same size designation, and in the photo it looks as if the UE900 tip is quite a bit larger.
I suspect that you really dont get a good seal with the M size shown in the picture.
I use Spiral Dot ++ size MS, but Spring size M.
Maybe try the L size Spring tips?

Listening to 2049 again, and I think I am getting better bass than with any other tip I tried with th M9.
They are a liiiittle bit finicky to get just the right fit without vacuum pressure, but the SQ is worth it to me.