[AdamZuf]

Quote:

Originally posted by wallijonn What is everyone's opinion of the 40 ohm CD3000 and 300 ohm HD600 out of 120 ohm outputs? Does the CD3000 tend to sound dark in such a configuration? Does the HD600 tend to sound bright (or brighter) in such a configuration?

good point

 

[strohmie]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch Let's compromise and say the CD-3000 are about 3x more expensive, eh?

Heh. Got my HD600s for $180, and my CD3000s for $240.

Math...doesn't...compute...

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by strohmie Heh. Got my HD600s for $180, and my CD3000s for $240. Math...doesn't...compute...

Most people don't get prices that low.

OK, let's compare MSRP for a final conclusion then:

CD3000: $699.99
HD-580: $259.95
HD-600: $449.95

Whatever the above means (not much in reality). Yeah, my math was somewhat off anyway (shrug)...

 

[hedonist]

Quote:

Originally posted by lindrone True, they are open versus closed designs. However, from my experiences, it seems like although the Senns create a larger sound stage with its open design, the stage only extends from the left to the right.... and you do get the sense you are somehow separated, far away from the sound. It's a very laid back sound experience.

In my experience, the HD600's soundstage is very three dimensional, not just "left to right."

I've seen lots of HD600 bashing on these forums as of late, and I think it's unfounded. The fact that they're used as a point of reference by most everyone around here says quite a bit about them, in my opinion.

 

[raif]

I have haunted these boards for two years. For the longest time it was sennheiser 580/600 or bust. They were regarded as the best phones period.(under mulitple $grand)
I think what you see now is a bunch of people who have been fed that line but don't particulaly care for the laid-backness (blandness, veiled, reservedness, pick whichever term offends you the least) of the sennheiser sound and have found a phone that is equal in sound quality but presents the more "upfront" sound they were looking for.
I have heard up to the 580s but never the 600s, but from my experience most all of the 500-600 line has that same sonic signature.
With sennheiser it sounds like you are hearing the most beautiful rendition possible of recorded music. With the cd3ks it sounds like you are in the middle of the music.
For some people that equates to "better" I don't know if thats true, but the difference is.

 

[lindrone]

HD600 is3 dimensional, but if you've heard a CD3K they'll seem even more evenly balanced and 3 dimensional than the HD600... and more intimate at the same time.

I'm by no means bashing HD600.. it's a great headphone. And it's also very popular because for a lot of people, that's good enough for them to stop. For a lot of other people, it's where you *start* going into head-fi...

CD3K is the next natural progression from HD600.. if you're looking for a headphone in that next level of sound... CD3K is the closest you can get right now. It might change when HD650 comes out, but right now there really isn't another option from Senns.

It also goes to say a lot about the communal aspect of head-fi... Because a number of people has reviewed a certain headphone and had good experience with them... it causes a lot of people to also move into the same direction. For example, how many people have Ety's but has never tried Shure's? (although, personally I've never tried Ety's, just didn't have more cash to spend on it just for listening/testing purposes...)

There's also that whole ageless debate about Grado versus Senns... and how many people had the money or the chance to test both the SR-225 and HD580?

What it comes down to is.. you can't bash a headphone that you haven't heard, and you can't claim something that's universally agreed to as being good to be "better" than something else that not as many people have.

The whole point that any of us is here on head-fi, in the first place, is to find out what else is out there. There's no end to higher quality sound... There's an end to the size of your wallet (or the size of the hole in it).

 

[Karlosak]

Good point, Lindrone.
There are so many opinions on these and those cans, but how can they compare them if they hadn't actually heard them???
Someone could say pros and cons about HD-600 in comparison with other cans (having listened them for a long time!), but not about cans they haven't heard!
So all of you who actually haven't listened to both cans should be dead quiet... As I do

I would like to "fight" for my HD-600 (that I really like), but I have no permision - haven't seriously (for a long time in stress-free conditions) listened to CD3000 (but I would like to

).
I think that too many people here tend to exaggeratedly defend their cans and make bad conclusions without apropriate experience.
So if the CD3000 are really better why worry? They are nearly twice as expensive so they should be...

.
But I don't think there are many head-fiers that actually own both cans and can make serious statements. Maybe one day when there is 40 different reviews all voting for CD3K... I'll be a believer

P.S.: sorry for my english

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamZuf tortie, I don't care for senns anymore.. you'll hear my review soon. they were my first hi-fi experience and first headphones beyond earbuds - i found i wanted something else in a week.. the sony's holds enormous resolution. the HD600 (stock) can't touch them.

Oh, no, another that agree with me? I considered the Senns the entrance of the hi-fi cans level, but there is a long road to ride later....with the CD3000 on, before you get a replacement, I still have them on....

Quote:

Just to provide a bit of opposing opinion I think the HD 600 are a step above the CD 3000, especially if you upgrade the cable. Better midrange, better musicality, more realistic soundstage, etc. The CD 3000 are good 'phones, don't get me wrong. I just happen to disagree with the comments above that the HD 600 "aren't in the same league as the CD3000." Well, actually I do agree about that -- I just disagree which league is the better one (Remember, everything in this thread, including my comments, is opinion. Your best bet is to audition both in your own system.) It is true that the CD 3000 are much easier to drive than the HD 600.

Oh, sh%@#$, again??? Is that to replace the cable seem that is not an aftermarket "option" now, instead is becoming an "obligation": "...... you get the HD600, and don't get it, if you do not get a decent cable for it!!!!...." (IIRC Sennheiser is including now a discount coupon for the Cardas cable) Why the HD600 comes without a cable?......"upgrade"??? hum...."different" does not mean "better", sorry to strongly disagree, but I preffer the stock one, if you let me choose (but it seems that I can't, it is an obligation to get another cable) Well IMO, the sound after, is not as balanced and warm as with the stock one, and even worst, you get a more forward presentation of the music, but still WITH THE VEIL ON, in other words, you get a more forward sound but with the same defect....
OTOH what about if we replace also the cable in the CD3000 for a cardas one?.......Nah!!! of course nobody replace what is happy with........
Of course they are not on the same league, the CD3000 stock walks away after mopping the floor with the stock HD600, the stock HD600, maybe sounds better than headphones costing 100.00 cheaper or less (V6, DT990, DT770, 7509, and 580 included) at the price of the little brother, it will be a bargain but at 300 or so, retail, sorry I will get the CD3000 everytime you let me....for 70 more or so, and no need of cable replacement (another 150+)

 

[wallijonn]

Even if someone has heard both, there is still the problem of synergy. Since they are different impedances, chances are that they will not sound the same (???) from the same amp. Then there is the "problem" of source and interconnect cables. Within the amp itself there is the Integrated Circuit or tube variable.

And having said all that, we all hear differently. So even if you love your complete setup, there's every possibility that I will hear things that you do not, and visa versa. And let us not forget music gendres... You may like listening to the string section while I may focus on the brass section.

One just has to try them all out and see if one likes it. Sooner or later a winning combination is found.

 

[fewtch]

It seems Tyll (of Headroom) prefers the HD-600 to the CD3k (he's probably heard more cans with various different amps & sources than most of us here, I'd think):

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=45320

(2nd post down, 1st and 6th paragraph)

Nyeh nyeh nyeh NYEH nyeh...

 

[Habib]

Sov: Take it easy bud. I think it's both good and bad that Senns decided to make their cables "upgradable." Good being if it breaks you can replace it easily. Bad being you are leaving the door wide open for debate for ppl like us the merit of cable upgrades. If the option is not so readily available then it wouldn't be an issue, ie CD3000, Grados (although Grado has it's own pad problems). There is no discussion on what component to change on the CD3000, beyers, and AT phones.

But this kind of scenerio makes these comparison more colorful. So do you compare stock? Or do you bring the cost to be about the same? Which cable do you pick to represent? Cardas or Equinox? Or the soon to be released zucable. You know what? I will just stick with my CD3000 and not worry about which cable to get and cables running out of both cups

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by lindrone HD600 is3 dimensional, but if you've heard a CD3K they'll seem even more evenly balanced and 3 dimensional than the HD600... and more intimate at the same time. I'm by no means bashing HD600.. it's a great headphone. And it's also very popular because for a lot of people, that's good enough for them to stop. For a lot of other people, it's where you *start* going into head-fi... CD3K is the next natural progression from HD600.. if you're looking for a headphone in that next level of sound... CD3K is the closest you can get right now.

For some people, what you say may be true. But for some other people, the CD 3000 soundstage isn't "more evenly balanced and 3 dimensional," nor are the HD 600 the "start" of head-fi, nor are the CD3K "the next natural progression" or "that next level of sound."

I'm only pointing this out for the benefit of the person who started this thread. Your posts here continually imply that you "speak the truth," even though many people disagree.

Many people, myself included, still prefer the HD 600, even after hearing the CD 3000. I've never heard the vaunted R10, but I've heard pretty much everything else (I have a pretty good system over here

), and the only headphones I've heard that I prefer to the HD 600 are the Orpheus, and even then the HD 600/BlockHead combo has a few areas where it is superior, IMO. I even prefer the HD 600 to the AKG K1000 that I owned, which I also prefer to the CD 3000 in many ways.


To be absolutely clear, before the HD 600-haters start flaming me, I have absolutely no problem with people preferring the CD 3000, or any other headphone. My beef is when someone comes in asking about two headphones like these -- both of which are great headphones -- and a member responds in an authoritative tone that implies consensus when there is anything but such a consensus.

State your opinion as such, rather than making sweeping generalizations about how the CD 3000 are "the next level of sound" above the HD 600 or that the reason more people "prefer" the HD 600 is only because they haven't heard the CD 3000.


And also, as I mentioned earlier, your best bet is to audition both in your own system. You'll be able to decide what you yourself prefer, and you'll be able to hear both in the context of the components in your system, which often has as much impact on your preferences as anything else.



P.S. Sovkiller, why do you always have such a fit about the cable upgrade for the HD 600? This is one area where there is a near-universal consensus: the HD 600 are improved with a cable upgrade. Considering that the CD 3000 cost twice as much as the HD 600, a $100-$150 cable upgrade still makes it a cheaper headphone. But even then, who cares? The Grado RS1, which many people prefer to both of these models, cost $700. As markl pointed out, the $4000 R10 are well worth it to many people. So why all the complaining anytime anyone mentions a cable upgrade for the HD 600? Are you that insecure about your CD 3000? Geesh! If you could buy a $150 cable upgrade that made the CD3000 a better product, wouldn't you???

I know that if a cable upgrade made the CD3000 sound better than the HD 600 to me, I'd sell my HD 600 and buy the CD3000 in a heartbeat, rather than complain about new cables.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by Habib Sov: Take it easy bud. I think it's both good and bad that Senns decided to make their cables "upgradable." Good being if it breaks you can replace it easily. Bad being you are leaving the door wide open for debate for ppl like us the merit of cable upgrades. If the option is not so readily available then it wouldn't be an issue, ie CD3000, Grados (although Grado has it's own pad problems). There is no discussion on what component to change on the CD3000, beyers, and AT phones. But this kind of scenerio makes these comparison more colorful. So do you compare stock? Or do you bring the cost to be about the same? Which cable do you pick to represent? Cardas or Equinox? Or the soon to be released zucable. You know what? I will just stick with my CD3000 and not worry about which cable to get and cables running out of both cups

Habib:
Senns did not decided to make their cables "upgradable", they decided to make them easily "replaceable" and "exchangeable" but for the exact same they make, that is different, they do not make any other, but people begin to experiment to test this and that, becasue of that simplicity, plug and play.....If they really believe that there is something to "upgrade" on the senns sound, they should come out (for sure) with a replacement ("upgrade") for themselves, or maybe commision someone to make them and sell it at the same Cardas' price, or even more, do you really believe that if Senns offer a contract to the same guys that make the Equinox, or the ZU or even the Cardas, they will refuse it? To make them and sell them in bulk? How many do you think they can really sell a year? More than a contract with a factory? Com'on, man, think about that, do you really believe the story of the low prices just to benefit the public? What do they come out with the Orpheus price tag then?

BTW there is no such discussion on the rest, just simply and plain, because they do not need that, the pads on the Grados is just for comfort, not for sound quality evne when some prefer the sound of the modded ones, you have to agree with me that it doesn't matter how good one thing sound if you can barelly use it for an hour...but this is just me and IMO....

BTW MacDef the retail price for the HD600 is IIRC is 449.99 and the CD3000 is 699.99 is not the double, thoug, you can get the HD600 for around 300.00 on the street, that is what I sold mine for used, and the CD3000 350.00 that is why I pay for mine new, is not the double neither, and the cardas ( that is one of the cheaper of the bunch) will make the HD600 cost more than the CD3000, where is that benefit? IMO you get an inferior product and more expensive....about the CD3000 cable upgrade, yes probably I do, if an upgrade show up...but BTW I DO NOT CONSIDER THE CARDAS OR EQUINOX AN UPGRADE, despite the majority rest does...so the comparison for me, makes sense with the stock cable though....

Edit: sorry is 449.95 instead of 499.99 the retail for the Senns my mistake here is the link;
HD600

 

[lindrone]

Headroom has Senn HD-600 listed at $279

Audiocubes has Sony CD3000 listed at $379...

Why do you keep insisting they cost twice as much?

 

[hedonist]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller If they really believe that there is something to "upgrade" on the senns sound, they should come out (for sure) with a replacement ("upgrade") for themselves, or maybe commision someone to make them and sell it at the same Cardas' price, or even more, do you really believe that if Senns offer a contract to the same guys that make the Equinox, or the ZU or even the Cardas, they will refuse it? To make them and sell them in bulk? How many do you think they can really sell a year? More than a contract with a factory?

Stefan AudioArt has a 6 week waiting period on all equinox orders because of the high demand. I think they're doing just fine without a contract.