[scootermafia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by komi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Give me answer* and i am buying ... If you dont have answer, all your sweet talking is worth a 0 ... *please avoid words "Ultra hight-quality", "6 layers pcb", "CNC machined aluminum" etc ... Just simple answer - like you are seller in the store and i just walk in, asking why is that think 1000 bucks ...

If I were in the store, selling you one, I'd say "This product was designed by a smarter person with no constraints on the design and more care than all the rest. Listen to it, and tell me if you think differently." Then you would hear it and see for yourself. No amount of listing of specs or showing pictures or explaining its design is going to convince you, you'd have to hear it, or else take my word for it that I like it. Josh has already spilled a fair amount about the design, if not raw numerical measurements that may or may not tell much about its performance. We've already laid bare the fact that the PCB photos would tell you very little, it's going to be a modest sized board populated with parts and you are not equipped to understand exactly how it works..

 

[komi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I were in the store, selling you one, I'd say "This product was designed by a smarter person with no constraints on the design and more care than all the rest. Listen to it, and tell me if you think differently." Then you would hear it and see for yourself. No amount of listing of specs or showing pictures or explaining its design is going to convince you, you'd have to hear it, or else take my word for it that I like it. Josh has already spilled a fair amount about the design, if not raw numerical measurements that may or may not tell much about its performance. We've already laid bare the fact that the PCB photos would tell you very little, it's going to be a modest sized board populated with parts and you are not equipped to understand exactly how it works..

I dont remember i ask YOU anything ...

Edit: I am outta this topic - cuz i hear this kind of story a lot in my life !

 

[h.rav]

I'll be more than happy to pay for the SonicWeld converter if it's the best USB-SPDIF out there.
I only have two questions, is it really necessary to have that kind of enclosure for a USB-SPDIF converter?
What would be the price if it's not housed in that pretty aluminum alloy enclosure? Let's say, if it's housed in a decent Hammond aluminum enclosure.
Honestly, I'll probably keep it on a pretty glass cabinet and not use it at all if I own it. The case is too beautiful, I just don't want to scratch it. Some head-fiers are interested in seeing the internal, I'm interested as well. There are some products that have pretty enclosures, but do not perform as good as they look, I know one of them does not even have a proper charging circuit and does not perform as good as the manufacturer's claims.

 

[JayDee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by komi /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, one simple question , tell me why should i buy your product, and why is priced on 1000 bucks ... Is simple like that ... Give me answer* and i am buying ... If you dont have answer, all your sweet talking is worth a 0 ... *please avoid words "Ultra hight-quality", "6 layers pcb", "CNC machined aluminum" etc ... Just simple answer - like you are seller in the store and i just walk in, asking why is that think 1000 bucks ...

[sigh.] Alright, Komi, since you asked more nicely, let's see if we can get logic to win the day here.

Since you seem to have a penchant for fashion (nothing wrong with that, BTW), let's use it as a working example. I presume you own some of the brands of clothing or accessories you mentioned, or are at least aspiring to do so. When you walked into the Versace store and found your eye caught by those sweet $500 sunglasses, did you ask the sales clerk to explain why you should buy them, and how they could possibly cost $500? What did he or she say, assuming the response wasn't a dismissive scowl or instant laughter? Did you engage in a long-winded exchange about the merits of True Religion jeans before reaching for your wallet? What where the points of discussion that swayed you and made you a believer? Did you email Mark Nason and ask him similar questions before buying some of his boots? What did he say? Why did you buy any of these products - what were your specific reasons? Clearly, you found value in them, but why?

When you ask me why the Diverter costs as much as it does but then expressly disallow me from citing any of the real reasons I or others have already mentioned, can you not see how that represents a logical conundrum? This is why no one, including myself, has taken your blustering seriously.

It's as if you came to me and said, "Josh, I simply must know why you like sugar so much and why I should eat some myself, but DON'T give me any of that crap about liking the way it tastes, rapid weight gain, sugar highs, or wanting to support the Twinkie company and sugar cane farmers."

I mean, where do you go from there?

 

[scootermafia]

Hope this is the last time you say "I'm outta here maaaaaaan" like you have the last few threads you've laid waste to, Komi.

H.Rav - the aluminum has this unique texture to it, it seems very scratch resistant to me. There are these elastomer damping feet on the underside that should prevent scratches too. I'm sure the Diverter would be nearly as good without the case, but adding mass prevents vibrations and thicker metal might offer a little more protection from interference. Josh owns all the hardware to make whatever cases he likes, doesn't cost him as much to do as it would other companies - he does not have a typical setup for building stuff. I'm sure for Kingwa to have enclosures like that for audio-GD would cost a lot, as he'd have to CNC them himself, but Josh has a CNC.

If I ever go to Utah, I'll eat a Twinkie at the Sonicweld shop....

 

[guitarplayer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I ever go to Utah, I'll eat a Twinkie at the Sonicweld shop....

Ha! I prefer the raspberry and coconut Zinger's!

Man, I take the day off to be with my wife while she is having her millionth MRI, and all hell breaks loose, and I come late to, and miss, the party! Gotta love Head-Fi!

Peace,

Lee

 

[JayDee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarplayer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ha! I prefer the raspberry and coconut Zinger's!

What Lee isn't telling you guys is that we once cryogenically treated a box of them, just for laughs. They tasted 12.3% better.

 

[wavoman]

I don't get it ... Lee offers you the chance to buy the Diverter and return it if you don't like it. If you need a USB-to-S/PDIF converter, buy this one and several others all with return privs.

Audition -- that's what this hobby is all about.

Try them in your own home. Keep the one that delivers the value you seek at the price you want to pay.

I did. I have a totally silent PC (no fan, RAM drive) loaded with hi res files. My system is a Wadia 781i into an Orpheus which performs well (understatement) on SACDs and Redbook CDs, but unfortunately has no way to feed my PC files into the Wadia DAC ... it will only take S/PDIF or AES. So I needed a USB-to-S/PDIF converter that performed at the same level as the other two components mentioned.

After auditions, I decided to keep the Diverter. It works flawlessly, sounds great, looks great, and is sold/backed by a well-known honest merchant.

Maybe in a blind test I couldn't tell the difference, but that does not matter in the slightest ... it may all be placebo effect, but again that doesn't matter. To me, in my home, in my rig, the Diverter sounds perfect, and that is all that counts. I could have kept a cheaper one, but I didn't want to, factoring all things in to consideration.

Do what you want, but to critique a product you have not listened to is something I find not particulary helpful. No one is forcing you, or anyone, to buy it.

Anyone who spends serious money without auditioning or return privs is crazy. And once you do that, you have all the facts you need to make an informed decision. You can even get a friend to help you test blind, or just trust your ears, as you choose.

This is not a difficult hobby. Expensive perhaps, but not difficult.

 

[ms142]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not a bad idea, I'll think about it. The Musiland isn't that much different than the Pop Pulse, which I have already said time and time again sounds inferior to the Diverter. [/B]

Thanks for considering it. I suggested the Musiland 01USD because there're some measurements of it on diyhifi and some Chinese hifi forums (showing it, at least, to be bit perfect), so it'd be a good reference point. Also because it's not based on chips like CM-108 or PCM2704, it's supposed to be in a different league. As for not having Amarra in PC, perhaps you can just try playing CDs or wav files through asio?

That said, I do find it very interesting already that you find the poppulse to be inferior, as I think this means DAC8 doesn't do as much reclocking as people might assume. Checking the audio-gd website, I notice that Kingwa only advertises Ref1/2 as being theoretically not sensitive to transport because of the DSP-1 module. It's a bit confusing what exactly they do.
(EDIT: I just read the Chinese version of the audio-gd Reference One page, and this is my quick translation of the "2. Jitter" section: The DSP-1 inside Reference One has two high quality phase locked loops, but the most important improvement comes from the fact that DSP-1 can process input data synchronously, achieving a state of virtually no jitter. This results in a reproduction whose clarity, coherence and imaging reflect more faithfully the level of recording. So in theory, any CD transport should give us the same optimal sound quality. Of course, in practice we still find that transports of different qualities result in different sound qualities (such is the theory-defying nature of Audio!). (Emphasis mine) However, for a low quality CD/DVD player, this machine can bring about much greater improvement than can a DAC that uses digital filters such as PMD100 or DF1704...)

 

[scootermafia]

While you're at it, cryo me some ice cream then extrude it into Dippin' Dots.

Yea, if I get the money I'll have the DAC8 converted to being a Ref1; while I am very used to soldering I'm less experienced with boardwork and I really don't want to do the swap myself simply because I'd rather have someone else take responsibility for it.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by komi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why you dont post here technical specs of your product - measurements etc, like other companies do ... All i hear here IS - is great product, and looks great ... hello - i can see the machined brick, and i know how you did it ... I dont need a lession about designing PCB, i am not going to design one any time soon ... You are designer, and you are here to sell your product, and i am asking why i should buy ? I dont hear one so far ...

....because you've already made up your mind about the product and, regardless of what was posted, you'd still say the same thing. Even if Jay posted measurements, you'd have next to zero idea of what they mean and you'd only attempt to use them to justify your beliefs. In a manner, you are exactly the same as someone who says "Wow, these specs are great, I should buy this" but instead, you want to say "These specs aren't dramatically greater than this much cheaper product, so it's a rip-off/snake oil/whatever".

 

[DoYouRight]

What he is looking for is, like:
this part compared to "randomchip" is %123 better or accurate. specifics. compared to blank it does blank. can use chips or whatever if you dont want to name names of companies.

The thing about the decoder. if its not even close to 2k meaning maybe 6k thats not quite smart. If you make it 2500 and sell 15 units versus 6 and sell 5 its better off to lower price a bit until you get more units out there. but oh well.

 

[manaox2]

I've seen a few manufacturers charge too little for their work (SinglePower for one, probably one of the reasons Mikhail went batty on everybody) and that doesn't end will. If you can't produce enough to meet demand (IE supply meeting demand), then you charge more, so some products have to be expensive. This seems like one of those things that could be done quickly, cheaply, and automated. I sincerely hope he is not building these by hand (doubtful), it seems like a lot of those could be turned out and shouldn't be in high need of repair later. It could be a reputation building thing, such as my products are so good that they command a higher price (and they could be). I'm going to wait until CanJam probably to give this an audition. If I can't figure out whats really all that different from other options, I'll have to audition it. I really don't like going through the hassle of having things shipped and then resending them back to audition stuff and I doubt the manufacturer does either when they return it.

 

[manaox2]

double post

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by manaox2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've seen a few manufacturers charge too little for their work (SinglePower for one, probably one of the reasons Mikhail went batty on everybody) and that doesn't end will.

I have to correct you on this. Mikhail didn't "go batty on everybody", he was ripping people off, for years from what I can see, because he could get away with it. Charging too little? He was charging people for parts that weren't there and work he didn't do. It also seems very likely he was taking in amps for repair (repairs for failures caused by his shoddy work) and selling them on to other people. It is not appropriate IMO to compare anyone or anything else to him.

Now, back on topic...sorry for the interruption.