[TheSonicTruth]

There certainly is a matter or habit. And with something like the HD800, people can
easily confuse the impression of big lateral distance that most people feel, with the
idea of right sound. So anytime the instruments on the sides come closer or move
somewhere else, many will assume it's a sign that the FR is going in the wrong
direction. Which in practice doesn't mean that at all, as most stereo albums weren't
made for headphone playback in the first place.
So you could very well be correct about @sigi . But contrary
to calibrating a screen, the reference for flat on a headphone(doesn't really exist IMO)
is not the same for everybody. It objectively isn't, as HRTF gets involved and different
people simply have different HRTF. Sonarworks, the Harman target, or any other
notion of a reference target on headphone, objective or subjective, can only work for
so many people. When it does, that's great news for the user. And when it doesn't,
oh well, better luck next time. @sigi not finding his compensated HD800 to sound right,
does not automatically mean he needs to relearn what neutral
is. The same conversation about screens, printers, or speakers and I would conclude
the same as you. But headphone playback is different.

I'm aware of HRTF(head-related transfer function). Which is why I would rather start off with a headphone that is engineered flat to begin with. I can personally EQ it to overcome my individual HRTF at home. Something which cannot be done with V-shaped boom & sizzlers such as Beats or some Skully Candy models.

 

[castleofargh]

I'll explain with an example...
There is a game on Soundgym called Reverb Wizard. Three sounds are played and one has a different reverb setting - you have to catch that one. It is easy at the beginning but as you progress though the levels the differences become more and more subtle. You can find the odd on out if you catch subtle differences in the reverb tail or the vocals sound more or less up front than the others...

(BTW if you haven't already - try Soundgym out ... I am at about level 60 with this perticular game - and I've been at the diamond ear status for quite a while now - I am not telling this to brag about it but just to make it clear that my listening skills are getting regular training)

So the thing with the Sonarworks calibrated HD800 is that with the calibration bypassed it is easier to hear the really subtle differences... And I am quite sure this has nothing to do with the flatness of the frequency response, as I am experiencing this with the calibration set to 30-40% wet - where the frequency response is far from flat. It is simply that the filters/EQ used for the frequency correction does something to the sound that I can not really put into words or I can not consciously say what that change is, but the sound of the headphones, the sound stage becomes less clear ...

If what you're after is the most revealing sound, then something with an emphasis on the treble is likely to work great most of the time. But that's obviously not the purpose of Sonarworks on headphones. On occasion it could help pick up audio cues better. Like if the initial frequency response of the headphone was a mess, or if it was tuned real warm. but that's more of a lucky side effect than it is the purpose of the the app.
With something like the HD800, I would expect flat-ish for my ears to have a great deal less energy in the upper frequencies compared to the default tuning. And indeed that would probably make me less successful at some audio tests. Different priorities, different choices.

Also, perhaps try to forget the wet/dry option when testing like you do. A mix down of half way done things isn't necessarily less processing(depending on how they do it, it could actually be more), and it is unlikely to have any sort of merit in term of seeking perceived neutral. That option is more of a preference setting IMO. which is yet another criteria that may or may not align with perceived neutral or increased details.
When it comes to seeking the artist's intent, I believe that perceived neutral is the way. But I also understand that the original intent for almost all stereo albums was speaker playback anyway. So that might not be a headphone user's top priority. Headphone playback is indeed giving more details/clarity than speaker playback(higher fidelity transducers, no room reverb, little to no mixing of the channels). And while it's everything I personally try to get away from, I do understand how many audiophiles(including some of my audio buddies) can find it particularly appealing. For them it's an approach toward fidelity, while speaker playback only turns audio into some soft mush. Again, different folks... Just define what you want and by all means, go for it. if that particular app doesn't do what you want, to quote my previous post: "oh well, better luck next time "

 

[networkn]

So I heard about Sonarworks and on Black Friday got a deal and purchased it. Didn't get a lot of time to evaluate it, but I think I am doing something wrong.

There seems to be zero difference in sound between it on and off? I have specified the headphones HD800S, and the output to my BiFrost via USB, then using the big power button, but clicking it does apprently nothing.

I am obviously missing a step somewhere, would someone kindly point me in the direction?

 

[gikigill]

So I heard about Sonarworks and on Black Friday got a deal and purchased it. Didn't get a lot of time to evaluate it, but I think I am doing something wrong.

There seems to be zero difference in sound between it on and off? I have specified the headphones HD800S, and the output to my BiFrost via USB, then using the big power button, but clicking it does apprently nothing.

I am obviously missing a step somewhere, would someone kindly point me in the direction?

You need to tweak around with the settings and make sure the profile has been activated correctly. The software does allow some major changes to the sound once you get the hang of it.

 

[kumar402]

So I heard about Sonarworks and on Black Friday got a deal and purchased it. Didn't get a lot of time to evaluate it, but I think I am doing something wrong.

There seems to be zero difference in sound between it on and off? I have specified the headphones HD800S, and the output to my BiFrost via USB, then using the big power button, but clicking it does apprently nothing.

I am obviously missing a step somewhere, would someone kindly point me in the direction?

You have to select Sonarworks as your output device in Audio settings of your laptop OS

 

[JazzArtist123]

Wanted to share my thoughts on Sonarworks Reference 4, as I've been using it for several months now. I have to say I'm really impressed with how well it works overall and I'm also impressed with their support staff when it comes to quickly resolving any set-up/install issues you might have. I've found that using the Linear Phase setting on each profile sounds best to me and I don't notice any pre-ringing effects. For me, this software improves the Sennheiser HD 600 and HD 6XX (I use the HD 650 calibration profile for my 6XX as it sounds best to me); it improves the AKG K712 Pro, the Superlux HD 668B; and, most fun of all to me, it improves my Beyerdynamic DT 880 Black Special Edition 600-Ω headphones. They don't have a profile for the DT 880 600-Ω, but using the Beyerdynamic DT 880 Edition 250-Ω profile works fantastic. I never liked the recessed midrange of the DT 880, so for me, this EQ software worked wonders on the DT 880.

When you use this software, any differences between the HD 600 and the HD 6XX/650 vanish, they basically become the same headphone. The software isn’t quite able to improve the AKG K712 Pro to the levels that it can improve the 600/650/6XX/880, and the Superlux HD 668B isn’t improved as much as the AKG K712 Pro gets improved, but there are still improvements with all these headphones.

The one downside I’ve noticed is that occasionally, there will be a random pop or click noise that occurs which I know is not coming from any of my sources/recordings, and it is more likely to happen if I am jumping around in my music selection. So, there are still some improvements Sonarworks can make to their software to remove those clicks, but most of the time, those clicks are nowhere to be heard. I thoroughly enjoy using it. If you wait for a holiday, the Reference 4 Headphone Edition may go on sale again.

Cheers!

 

[Ohman]

Wanted to share my thoughts on Sonarworks Reference 4, as I've been using it for several months now. I have to say I'm really impressed with how well it works overall and I'm also impressed with their support staff when it comes to quickly resolving any set-up/install issues you might have. I've found that using the Linear Phase setting on each profile sounds best to me and I don't notice any pre-ringing effects. For me, this software improves the Sennheiser HD 600 and HD 6XX (I use the HD 650 calibration profile for my 6XX as it sounds best to me); it improves the AKG K712 Pro, the Superlux HD 668B; and, most fun of all to me, it improves my Beyerdynamic DT 880 Black Special Edition 600-Ω headphones. They don't have a profile for the DT 880 600-Ω, but using the Beyerdynamic DT 880 Edition 250-Ω profile works fantastic. I never liked the recessed midrange of the DT 880, so for me, this EQ software worked wonders on the DT 880.

When you use this software, any differences between the HD 600 and the HD 6XX/650 vanish, they basically become the same headphone. The software isn’t quite able to improve the AKG K712 Pro to the levels that it can improve the 600/650/6XX/880, and the Superlux HD 668B isn’t improved as much as the AKG K712 Pro gets improved, but there are still improvements with all these headphones.

The one downside I’ve noticed is that occasionally, there will be a random pop or click noise that occurs which I know is not coming from any of my sources/recordings, and it is more likely to happen if I am jumping around in my music selection. So, there are still some improvements Sonarworks can make to their software to remove those clicks, but most of the time, those clicks are nowhere to be heard. I thoroughly enjoy using it. If you wait for a holiday, the Reference 4 Headphone Edition may go on sale again.

Cheers!

One way of getting rid of pops and other artefacts is to increase the buffer's values in audio settings. Obviously more buffer means more latency but the difference is too small to be noticed.

 

[TheSonicTruth]

I've gotten reasonably good results with this app on my devices:

https://appadvice.com/app/equalizer/321267949

Say I'm attempting to correct for the Beyer DT880 pro, attached.

I'll go into the Audioforge Equalizer App(7 parametric bands), and set for the five most eggregious frequencies, and set Q(bandwidth) for narrower(3.0 or higher). Then I apply opposite positive or (usually)negative gain to those peaks or dips. Finally, I gradually widen the Q(lower values, 2, 1.0), until the curve in the app nearly resembles an inverse of the curve, for example, attached. Then I save the curve, of course "Correction 01 - BEYER DT880-250" or some such.

 

[Ohman]

Wanted to share my thoughts on Sonarworks Reference 4, for me, this software improves the Sennheiser HD 600 and HD 6XX

In my case Ref 4 worked miracles for two of my phones, the Focal Elear and the more modest Senn Momentum HD1 on-ear. The Elear in particular went from "meh" to "wow!" the very minute I used it with this software .Gone are the recessed mids, wonky dynamics and even the phase shifts that occurred with a few specific songs to the point of causing the phones to clip.. I also have the Clear I had bought to replace the disdained Elear and I swear, the Elear now sounds better than the Clear. For phones that are already fairly neutral (like Clear and Sundara) Ref 4 doesn't have much of an effect since its role is to flatten the curve. In fact it it doesn't have a preset for the Sundara since there is very little to "calibrate" on an already neutral-tuned can. Still, the "calibrated" Elear is now my daily driver and the Clear has been relegated to back-up status with Sundara in-between. Don't get me wrong, the Clear is one heck of a nice-sounding phone, but now the Elear sounds better. I think this is due to the Clear having a slightly forward midrange while the Elear had more room to work with and tweak its solid potential. Whatever it is they've done with it, they hit the bull's eye.

 

[Roll]

The All-New Reference Coming Soon!
Tune in on March 9th 9AM (PST).

SoundID Reference launch
We've started the countdown to when the product is officially released. The free launch event will be digital, like most events nowadays, and will include a variety of speakers, educators and professionals. Check out the whole program (and sign up to be notified) here:

https://event.sonarworks.com/

 

[Roll]

Time to upgrade from Reference 4 to SoundID

Upgrade for Headphones is $49 / €49, for Speakers & Headphones $119 / €119.

The latest version introduces 2 major updates - Custom Target and Translation Check features along with improved drivers for Windows users offering near 0 latency. Additional tooltips and user interface improvements are now making creator’s workflow more streamlined.

 

[groovyd]

Wait are you saying Ref 4 doesn't upgrade to Ref 5 or that we need to pay to continue to get updates? What is SoundId? Isn't that the canned correction app for mobile?

Video answered some of the questions but if I don't need custom curves what does this get me on a mac besides a new UI? Better sound quality? Lower latency? Phase correction? Are there changes to the measurement app? Does it include universal/M1 mac plugins? Do all my custom headphone profiles and speaker profiles transfer over? Will re-measuring my speakers improve anything?

 

[Roll]

I am just a user.
From what I gather, there is no Reference 5. "A new Reference 4 update next week. No major features, but some bugs have been fixed."But all their resources will be with SoundID which is at version 5.0.0.419 and their account system and their website

Not sure about the name SoundId. I do know that I had to remove the True Fi and then the SoundId (the version that was to replace True Fi) off my computer before I had this new SoundID to work. I assume that the beta mobile will have to change her name due to confusion?

One can have Reference 4 and the new SoundId on the computer but - u need turn off the option "Launch at startup" on one of the software

They mention lower latency due to SoundId drivers?
No changes to the measurement app for now.
They will add more features later on from what was mentioned. Yes re custom transfer. U just need to add the code to the new app

How to upgrade Reference 4 and Reference 3 to SoundID Reference

https://soundid-reference.zendesk.c...erence-4-and-Reference-3-to-SoundID-Reference

 

[Roll]

From Facebook:

Owning your mistakes and correcting for them is the correct thing to do, right? Yesterday we were stoked to launch SoundID Reference with quite a few new features based on our user community requests. Today the feedback from you - our existing user community overwhelmingly says that although you like the new SoundID Reference, the upgrade price is out of reach for many of you and more over, some of you don’t think that it’s a fair price from an existing user's perspective.

It’s important for us to make sure that you feel the price for something that we build is right and you see that you are able and willing to invest in it. Because at the end of the day we believe in building our products that make your life as music creators easier.

So with this I want to let you know that to make the upgrade path from Reference 3 & 4 to SoundID Reference available to more of you, we are reducing the price of the upgrade from 119 to $89 / €89 for the full edition and from 49 to $39 / €39 for the headphone edition.

That said I know some of you will still say the price is too high and it needs to be lower still. As much as we’d like to sell the upgrade for some super low price plus include a lifetime of support and updates with that, it would be irresponsible from us as a company. In order to build and deliver high-quality features, we need to plan and budget for the effort that we know it takes.

So hopefully you will see this correction from our side as a genuine move from our side to take corrective action on a miscalculation from our side. Rest assured that we’ll continue our best effort to improve and maintain the product up to a high standard.

 

[groovyd]

Upgraded and managed to hash through the re-setyup of just about everything I have in my DAP etc. For me at least it did not carry over any of my custom profiles headphones or speakers. It uses a different project folder now which was empty. Had to copy paste all my custom projects over from Ref4 but they do seem to load. One bug I found already is if you enable listening spot compensation it still says 'disabled' in the plugin interface. Second bug is when using Mixed Filter plugin Latency values to not update properly. But of small bugs seem more like a regression from Ref4. Not sure about actual sound differences pretty hard to tell but most of the default settings were not what I had used previously so... In my mind this affords me nothing new really except continued support. Changing the name to SoundID makes no sense instead of just calling it Ref5. Are they going to change the name in every future version just to make it feel like you are getting something different for the purchase? Really wish they just kept it in the same naming space.

I would appreciate having Dark Mode in the Plugin UI please.