[esldude]

Wow!

I just checked the article you refer to in the "New World Cyborgs" title.

I'm just amazed that a company would risk their reputation on such applications that appear to add a false value to a product, yet as you state, remain successfully in business today.

I notice the author referred to the cable after disassembled as "snake oil".

I mean, isn't it illegal to do such practices?

Hey, I am no lawyer.  Seems wrong to me ethically. 
 
Now if you want another WOW, just google Monster M2.2 speaker cable.  You can find dozens upon dozens of glowing reports of it by owners.  You will even find bits of it for sale second hand even this long afterwards for $200-350. 
 
I did my own opening of an MIT digital cable once.  Not a super expensive one, but not a cheap one either.  Part of MIT patented network technology series.  It consisted of a coax cable with a fancy techy looking outer jacket.  ( I do believe the cable and jacket were teflon) What of the patented network technology advertised to reduce cable jitter-distortions and deliver natural timbre?  Well it consisted of a one ohm metal film resistor in series with the center lead.  Identical to those I could buy for about 10 cents at a local electronics supply house.  In bulk probably 2 cents each.  There was your network.  MIT is celebrating its 30th year in business this year.
 
Click on the image for a larger version.
 

 

[SilentFrequency]

Hey, I am no lawyer.  Seems wrong to me ethically. 

Now if you want another WOW, just google Monster M2.2 speaker cable.  You can find dozens upon dozens of glowing reports of it by owners.  You will even find bits of it for sale second hand even this long afterwards for $200-350. 

I did my own opening of an MIT digital cable once.  Not a super expensive one, but not a cheap one either.  Part of MIT patented network technology series.  It consisted of a coax cable with a fancy techy looking outer jacket.  ( I do believe the cable and jacket were teflon) What of the patented network technology advertised to reduce cable jitter-distortions and deliver natural timbre?  Well it consisted of a one ohm metal film resistor in series with the center lead.  Identical to those I could buy for about 10 cents at a local electronics supply house.  In bulk probably 2 cents each.  There was your network.  MIT is celebrating its 30th year in business this year.

I think that's just so saddening

Are these type of things rare amongst certain products ie cables/cable devices though?

But I don't know, the consumer should be more protected?

 

[limpidglitch]

I'm not a lawyer either, and not even american, but there are laws against deceptive advertisement, FTC regulates these.
My impression is that you don't have much of a government body to take care of these things when they actually occur, and rather rely on public interest groups to force change through civil lawsuits. Case in point: Coca-Cola and Vitaminwater health claims. (I must say, that "penny worth of vitamins" mirror esl's 2-cent-worth network rather well)
 
It seems unlikely to me that anyone would be willing to spend that kind of money on taking audio snake-oil merchants to court.

 

[esldude]

I think that's just so saddening

Are these type of things rare amongst certain products ie cables/cable devices though?

But I don't know, the consumer should be more protected?

Well, in the USA sometimes we value a hands off approach.  Caveat Emptor rather than having gov't interfere in our personal dealings.  I actually agree and would not wish for gov't oversight.  But again no lawyer, perhaps these things would be illegal under some circumstances. 
 
As for whether this is rare or not in cables and accessories......well it is not rare, but is the norm. 
 
An informed audiophile community would simply put these people out of business by not falling for it.   As you can tell, the audiophile community may not be well informed. 

 

[thune]

  I did my own opening of an MIT digital cable once.  Not a super expensive one, but not a cheap one either.  Part of MIT patented network technology series.  Well it consisted of a one ohm metal film resistor in series with the center lead. ... There was your network. 
 

 
It's only a shock and disappointment if you didn't look up the patent. Hard to knock something for being exactly what it says in the patent listed. However, according to the US5412356 patent, there should also be a 'fixed capacitor' across the conductors. The only disappointment would be if they claimed that parasitic capacitance was sufficient to be the 'discrete' cap described in the patent.

 

[esldude]

   
It's only a shock and disappointment if you didn't look up the patent. Hard to knock something for being exactly what it says in the patent listed. However, according to the US5412356 patent, there should also be a 'fixed capacitor' across the conductors. The only disappointment would be if they claimed that parasitic capacitance was sufficient to be the 'discrete' cap described in the patent.

There is no capacitor on it.  So they must be using the normal parasitic capacitance for the result.  And yes, I can knock something for being exactly what it says it is in a patent if the result of that is nothing that makes it perform differently than a simple coax cable.  So you would feel quite happy to pay $129 rather than $10 or $15 for some RG6? That would be really nice RG6 btw. 

 

[SilentFrequency]

Well, in the USA sometimes we value a hands off approach.  Caveat Emptor rather than having gov't interfere in our personal dealings.  I actually agree and would not wish for gov't oversight.  But again no lawyer, perhaps these things would be illegal under some circumstances. 

As for whether this is rare or not in cables and accessories......well it is not rare, but is the norm. 

An informed audiophile community would simply put these people out of business by not falling for it.   As you can tell, the audiophile community may not be well informed. 

What will the upcoming HOT electrical tests determine?

 

[mulder01]

What will the upcoming HOT electrical tests determine?

 
Good question.
I'm gonna take a guess:
Less efficiency due to some of the signal being converted into 'mechanical energy' (vibration) - oh my god better get a tranquility base for that!
Slightly different frequency response due to the 'transducer' not being consistent across the whole frequency range.
 
It also converts kinetic energy from you working and earning money, into the kinetic energy that the owners of these companies need to make their Aston Martins drive...

 

[SilentFrequency]

Good question.

I'm gonna take a guess:
Less efficiency due to some of the signal being converted into 'mechanical energy' (vibration) - oh my god better get a tranquility base for that!
Slightly different frequency response due to the 'transducer' not being consistent across the whole frequency range.

It also converts kinetic energy from you working and earning money, into the kinetic energy that the owners of these companies need to make their Aston Martins drive...

Just out of interest, are you going to perform an ear test (using headphones)?

 

[Mel Famie]

Just out of interest, are you going to perform an ear test (using headphones)?

If the gadget does exactly nothing to the electrical signal, there's no more reason to do "ear" testing than there is to do dynamometer testing of a claimed perpetual motion machine that turns out to be a cigar box with four marbles in it.

 

[SilentFrequency]

If the gadget does exactly nothing to the electrical signal, there's no more reason to do "ear" testing than there is to do dynamometer testing of a claimed perpetual motion machine that turns out to be a cigar box with four marbles in it.

Well, maybe there's no harm in being thorough, covering all bases I guess, regardless?

 

[bfreedma]

If the gadget does exactly nothing to the electrical signal, there's no more reason to do "ear" testing than there is to do dynamometer testing of a claimed perpetual motion machine that turns out to be a cigar box with four marbles in it.

Well, maybe there's no harm in being thorough, covering all bases I guess, regardless?

That's essentially the equivalent of feeling the need to jump off a tall building just to test measured gravitational results. You don't need to actually jump to know what the result will be.

It also brings subjectivity into play unless you plan to perform an ABX. Nothing to be gained.

 

[SilentFrequency]

That's essentially the equivalent of feeling the need to jump off a tall building just to test measured gravitational results. You don't need to actually jump to know what the result will be.

It also brings subjectivity into play unless you plan to perform an ABX. Nothing to be gained.

Yes, I understand your point, I guess if it were me, I'd just try it out purely out for curiosity sake, a side note perhaps.

 

[justaname]

Yes, I understand your point, I guess if it were me, I'd just try it out purely out for curiosity sake, a side note perhaps.

I doubt you would hear a difference after seeing scientific evidence... before maybe, due to expectation biases, but after, not unless you're a reviewer who stands to lose his credibility

Also I find it real shady that "members of the public" have to take it upon themselves to provide specs and measurements. Looks like not much in their product line-up actually have any specs or measurements, just flowery audiophile prose in the description...

 

[SilentFrequency]

I doubt you would hear a difference after seeing scientific evidence... before maybe, due to expectation biases, but after, not unless you're a reviewer who stands to lose his credibility

Also I find it real shady that "members of the public" have to take it upon themselves to provide specs and measurements. Looks like not much in their product line-up actually have any specs or measurements, just flowery audiophile prose in the description...

Yes, I think this is me just saying I'd just be be tempted to try it subjectively and yes maybe that is a tad naive of me to say so here so I guess I just defer to the member who will be making the objective electrical testing and await results.

One thing I can say though is I think it so applauding that for the benefit of this thread members have made their own personal time, effort and finances in obtaining these devices for such tests for this thread.

I think their generosity is amazing and I certainly appreciate their kind efforts to all involved.